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SAO Upgrade CRT | Absorbing the Sun or something idk

DMUA said:
The game verse is also a different continuity that mixes up events by a bit and sometimes sidesteps how the normal canon presents stuff.
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this does not matter for this. It’s a compendium of knowledge based on Underworld stuff, and it’s not like it’s saying anything contradictory (besides it’s not like we didn’t know Solus was the Sun god), I showed it so that Agnaa could understand and so I could just open a game I already had downloaded.
DMUA said:
7-B.
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Thats Stacia not Solus, and even then the full extent of the super accounts is never explored.
 
@DarkGrath hate to ping, but you able to give your (I assume) final thoughts on this matter based on what me and Jedi provided.
 
CurrySenpai said:
DarkGrath hate to ping, but you able to give your (I assume) final thoughts on this matter based on what me and Jedi provided.
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I cannot give input immediately, but hopefully some time in the next 24 hours will suffice?

(I thought you had pinged me for a different SAO thread when I saw the title. Somehow 1-A SAO didn't sound immediately suspicious.)
 
DarkGrath said:
I cannot give input immediately, but hopefully some time in the next 24 hours will suffice?

(I thought you had pinged me for a different SAO thread when I saw the title. Somehow 1-A SAO didn't sound immediately suspicious.)
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You're fine, no worries, before you do give your full analysis is there anything you'd want me to specify or clarify on? I did go into Underworld itself so I would understand if you or even Agnaa had any other questions.

The important part really is just understanding how Incarnation and the Reality Warping stuff works.

(Also 1-A SAO is really but only because they had a collab with Persona 5)
 
CurrySenpai said:
You're fine, no worries, before you do give your full analysis is there anything you'd want me to specify or clarify on? I did go into Underworld itself so I would understand if you or even Agnaa had any other questions.

The important part really is just understanding how Incarnation and the Reality Warping stuff works.

(Also 1-A SAO is really but only because they had a collab with Persona 5)
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I've no questions at present, no. I'll ask questions if they come up when I evaluate the discussion later.
 
BlackCat said:
When will you update his profile? (Because I've seen a lot of people accept it.)
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votes are still 3 - 3 (that we can count) with Grath saying they leaned towards disagreeing, just waiting for her second analysis
 
DMUA said:
Plenty of people also disagree with it, and have a lot of reasons to do so.
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Let’s not kid ourselves, we got 5 who disagree (including Kaantantr I just didn’t put him there because he’s been largely absent).

No shade, but VSBW is like… one of the only places beside the SAO subreddit that doesn’t buy anything about Tier 6 or higher Alicization, you’d be surprised.
 
Going to bed(by which I mean I’ll stare at my phone for an hour and then finally fall asleep so if there’s any more questions I’ll answer in the morning)
 
I've read through the posts made on the topic since my last evaluation.

My stance has ultimately not changed, though I am pleased that the open questions I expressed were thoroughly explained. I believe Agnaa's post here most clearly summarises the underlying issue I have with the arguments.
Agnaa said:
I understand the argument, it just doesn't meet our standards for evidence.

If there was a character who had 40 different feats of reality warping, operating on fairly wide scales (such as, having given everyone on the planet a sore stomach). And then, they had a feat where they said "Let's heat things up", before narration describes the nearby land lighting on fire and a nearby lake evaporating. We would not calculate this as them boiling all the world's oceans and coating the entire surface of the planet with fire. It wouldn't exactly be a huge leap for their reality warping to be able to do that, but the text itself doesn't concretely establish that happening. Going from showing me 5 of those different reality warping feats to 20 of them would change nothing about this.

Because of that, all the other reality warping feats in the series you keep listing are, at this point, completely and utterly inconsequential. Please stop wasting my time with them.
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I don't think the interpretation of the feat offered by CurrySenpai is particularly unreasonable. I believe the potential for such a feat as the one asserted has been firmly established, and within the constraints of the ambiguity of the statement, I could realistically imagine that the intention by the authors was to describe actually taking away every light element of Solus.

But I'm afraid we don't tend to index such tenuous cases. We don't need mountains of evidence that this interpretation of the feat wouldn't be completely out-of-line with the context of the setting and lore - what we need is direct evidence that this interpretation of the feat is the correct interpretation. Pointing to the influence of memories in the manifestation of a power and Kirito's memory of a 'starry sky', the legends surrounding Gigas Cedar and the role of imagination and beliefs in limits and potentials, the properties and elements that make up the world and the concept of luminosity and light elements, and so forth; these aptly establish that it's not totally unbelievable that a feat along the lines of "all the light elements that make up Solus were absorbed" might be possible, and while there are worthwhile criticisms of some of the claims that have been made due to these pieces of information (most of which Agnaa has already sorted through well), I acknowledge that this interpretation of events isn't a huge leap.

But it is still a leap, because it never says "all the light elements that make up Solus were absorbed" or any unambiguous variation of such a phrase in the passage itself, nor can we deduce this to be the case through elimination. We are still taking something that can perfectly be explained as a particular subset of the light elements of Solus being absorbed, and extrapolating that they absorbed all the light elements of Solus without textual evidence that this is what occurred in the scene. We simply don't index feats like this.

At risk of inciting further discussion on a thread already reaching nearly 10 pages, I am open to further evidence on this matter. The fact is, CurrySenpai, that I think you're probably not incorrect that absorbing all the light elements of Solus was how this feat was supposed to be understood by the authors. I don't say that definitively, I can't speak on their behalf, but I think it's well within the realm of possibility. But if there is any further evidence to be provided, it should be evidence from the scene or directly connected to the scene that elaborates on the nature of the event that occurs. You've given about as much context as could realistically be useful surrounding the rest of the verse, so if there is anything more to be said, it should be about the feat itself.
 
yes ma’am… back to the light novel caves with me…

But… even then, you’ve stated that you think my interpretation of the feat is plausible, but obviously there is room for interpreting it differently.

Other stuff have said as much, so I might as well ask, are you completely against a possibly rating or no, because at this point, that’s the only compromise I want.
 
CurrySenpai said:
Other stuff have said as much, so I might as well ask, are you completely against a possibly rating or no, because at this point, that’s the only compromise I want.
Click to expand...
At this stage, I'm not content with a possibly rating. I can acknowledge intuitions as much as I would like, but I still don't believe this justification meets the standard of being 'reliable to a notable, but mild' degree as established for possibly ratings on the Attack Potency page. It's just not really 'notably reliable' at all to claim a feat should be interpreted a certain way because the verse makes it seem like such an interpretation could be hypothetically feasible.

But the standard to convince me it would be suitable is obviously lower than the standard for claiming the feat should get the tier definitively. I would likely be satisfied if something concrete can be established in the scene that would at least confidently imply the scale extended to the rest of Solus, provided this doesn't create discrepancies.

If anything, I feel I should ask - what happened to Solus after this scene? I imagine that would help us understand the event a bit better. If the light is eventually returned to it, how so? And if not, that creates some interesting questions.
 
DarkGrath said:
If anything, I feel I should ask - what happened to Solus after this scene? I imagine that would help us understand the event a bit better. If the light is eventually returned to it, how so? And if not, that creates some interesting questions.
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This message should help answer your question.
CurrySenpai said:
The scene paints the loss of light as abrupt, and it paints the light returning as sudden as well. The reason it didn't take 8 minutes is because that is how the Memory Release function works. Let me list out the scene.

Kirito arrives and absorbs the Sun Luminosity suddenly > Turns absorbed Sacred Power into Light Elements > A majority of the Light Elements are used to heal the girls and kill the minions > Light is mentioned to return after this fact

This gives us something important... consistency. When Kirito used the Light Elements created from the Sun's Luminosity, the sun then returned, and it did so in the same manner it was taken, suddenly. It is not said that Solus slowly began regained its sunset color, it is "As soon as the fusions were gone, and the girl's wounds were healed, the sky regained it's sunset color." As soon as. And this makes sense, because the Memory Release is the strongest function of the Night Sky Sword.
Click to expand...
 
Kirito arrives and absorbs the Sun Luminosity suddenly > Turns absorbed Sacred Power into Light Elements > A majority of the Light Elements are used to heal the girls and kill the minions > Light is mentioned to return after this fact
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Can you provide a scan for the last one? The scans in the OP end with the monsters 'crumbling into liquid form', so I don't know what the text says for the last part.
 
DarkGrath said:
Can you provide a scan for the last one? The scans in the OP end with the monsters 'crumbling into liquid form', so I don't know what the text says for the last part.
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4COcVGD.png

here ya go
 
CurrySenpai said:
4COcVGD.png

here ya go
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Apologies if this seems pedantic, but - the last sentence interests me. 'The majority of the light elements had expired, having completed their...'. What does the next section after this scan say?
 
DarkGrath said:
Apologies if this seems pedantic, but - the last sentence interests me. 'The majority of the light elements had expired, having completed their...'. What does the next section after this scan say?
Click to expand...
You're fine, no worries.
image.png
 
CurrySenpai said:
You're fine, no worries.
image.png
Click to expand...
The particular number of light elements involved does interest me - how tens of thousands were involved in the original feat, and the sun can maintain luminosity with several hundreds removed - but I'm not sure if this enables us to deduce anything more than we know at present.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can say much more than I already have at present. And I'm afraid my time is limited. I will hear out further arguments, but if any are produced, it may not be until tomorrow when I will be able to respond. Thank you for your helpfulness thus far in expanding on this matter.
 
DarkGrath said:
The particular number of light elements involved does interest me - how tens of thousands were involved in the original feat, and the sun can maintain luminosity with several hundreds removed - but I'm not sure if this enables us to deduce anything more than we know at present.

Unfortunately, I don't think I can say much more than I already have at present. And I'm afraid my time is limited. I will hear out further arguments, but if any are produced, it may not be until tomorrow when I will be able to respond. Thank you for your helpfulness thus far in expanding on this matter.
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No problem! I've got no qualms trying to help people further understand the series itself and feats involved, it gets harder as things change and when it's been 3 years since any interesting or major revision
 
CurrySenpai said:
image.png
Click to expand...
Maybe this is just going too far into nitpicking the words, but this doesn't give off the impression of the vast majority of the light elements being returned, so I don't think you can say it explains away the 8 minute concern.

If most of them simply expired, while a few hundred lingered around, that doesn't leave much room for the 95%+ that would need to have been returned to space to avoid the 8 minute issue.

I get if you don't find the 8 minute thing too strong, as the author could've simply neglected physics, but I think it's weird to present this as a solution to it.
 
Agnaa said:
Maybe this is just going too far into nitpicking the words, but this doesn't give off the impression of the vast majority of the light elements being returned, so I don't think you can say it explains away the 8 minute concern.

If most of them simply expired, while a few hundred lingered around, that doesn't leave much room for the 95%+ that would need to have been returned to space to avoid the 8 minute issue.

I get if you don't find the 8 minute thing too strong, as the author could've simply neglected physics, but I think it's weird to present this as a solution to it.
Click to expand...
As I've mentioned before...
DMUA said:
I gave this a "this makes no sense", but I should be more articulate as to why. If we're saying he unleashed High 6-A power and that just went back into the environment, the entire planet would have become as bright (or even brighter, given the lesser surface area) than the entirety of the sun's light (not even just the sun itself) combined. That's not even how elements work from my understanding, and the narrator themselves even mention that after concentration breaks, the elements either vanish or "burst". This isn't what described, rather that the daylight comes back in a normal fashion rather than becoming a global flashbang (or a flashbang at all, the PoV was uncomfortable but they weren't totally incapable of seeing what was happening by just forcing themselves towards it). This is far more in line with the sun just being allowed to shine again by the Night Sky Sword turning off, similar to a Solar Eclipse misaligning after a few moments.
Click to expand...
 
I just noticed a lot has changed since the thread was first made; it was originally a High 6-A upgrade and what was argued for most of it, but then it got changed into a 1-A upgrade. Shouldn't the thread be refreshed and vote count be reset for such big changes?
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I just noticed a lot has changed since the thread was first made; it was originally a High 6-A upgrade and what was argued for most of it, but then it got changed into a 1-A upgrade. Shouldn't the thread be refreshed and vote count be reset for such big changes?
Click to expand...
It was a joke to try and garner more attention for a day, I'll change it, my apologies.
 
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