Sasuke Uchiha vs. Gray Fullbuster

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Let's take a break from Natsu vs Naruto. The fight takes place in the outskirts of Konoha.

Sasuke: 1

Gray: 1

Taka Sasuke and Pre Second Origin Gray. Sasuke is restricted to using the Incomplete versions of Susanoo. Genjutsu is also restricted (before I hear complaints again even when Fairy Tail characters have been shown breaking out of illusions). Speed is equalized. Who wins?

 

[Dancesnapple]

Power is roughly even. Speed and reaction go to Sasuke. Physical strength grey. Durability not much of a factor. Sasuke has a wider variety of moves and has shown better methods of planning so he wins intelligence. Amaterasu trumps any of Gray's attacks, though it hurts Sasuke. Gray also has no method of putting the flames out. Sasuke would nickel and dime gray down until finishing him off. Gray might survive a chidori by freezing the wound shut and freezing his blood, which he's done, but that's a very temporary fix. As for genjutsu, yes fairy tail characters HAVE broken them, usually taking great lengths to do so with even lesser users. Gray could break some illusions, there's very few fairy tail characters with any suitable defense. That said, Sasuke never uses illusions regardless so no need to use it. He has only ever used them in sharingan duels and once on Bee. Still Sasuke

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Gray trumps him in AP and Dura. Sasuke's Durability is very low unless he uses Incomplete Susano'o and even then that defense is not optimal since it still leaves openings.

Sasuke isn't faster than Gray since speed is equalized and his Sharingan precog isn't gonna work most of the time due to it reading muscle movement to make a prediction. You can't tell what Gray is gonna do with his ice by reading his moves since every single magic of his requires the same pose to be cast.

While Sasuke might win very slightly in intelligence, Gray is way more level headed than him and does not overestimate his own powers.

Gray is also way more versatile than Sasuke using his Ice Make. Whatever Sasuke can do, Gray can do more. He trumps him completely in range effectivenss and can play keep away using Kites.

He has frozen high temperature techniques before like Juvia's boiling water, another of Juvia's attacks that was even hotter in temperature than the last, and he has frozen even flames, also he has flash frozen comparable fire mages. Freezing Amaterasu is totally a viable strategy for him. Another strategy would be to use Ice Barriers.

This version of Sasuke tires out rather fast, especially when using Susano'o and Amaterasu. Considering the speed equalization, hitting Gray with Amaterasu will prove difficult since he can shield himself and dodge. Before long Sasuke will tire out and his eyes will start to hurt a lot. If he gets struck during this time or generally in an undefended place with Susano'o, he'll get oneshot.

 

[Dancesnapple]

Even with speed equalized, sharingan gives higher reaction time as one of its key traits, so he wins speed and reaction regardless. And yes he can precog because sharingan sees energy including magic(saw deidara's c4 and verse equalization.) so he'd see in every way everything he does and how he's forming his magic JUST LIKE he's done against people before. Where and when did gray ever go through a whole fight planning things through? Sure, he adapts well but no... because he's tried twice now to kill himself with iced shell without thinking of everything or succeeding AND his last half dozen fights in manga have all been rage fest or go head first. Sasuke planned entire fights and outthought danzo and deidara while taking Itachi by surprise at least. Also, amaterasu to date has no been put out by anything other than the users will, even threatening and injuring the ten tails which can destroy the moon, so no, gray does not have the ability to freeze it OR put it out. Yes, barriers can block it but Inferno flame control, can remotely control the flames even after being blocked. Yes, gray has durability, hes also only got one startup to any move since all his ice make starts the same, and this gray doesn't have anything that lets him use it faster like devil Slayer or his more recent boosts against the spriggan. Also Sasuke loses in stamina but keep in mind he fought not one, but two kage level opponents and survived the attacks of three more and showed he would have killed at least Ay, and his eyes still held enough to go the whole danzo fight and THEN fight Naruto. His eyes aren't going to go blind that fast. He loses stamina but not by much. (Yes I know he got a chakra recharge, but your main argument was the eyes and his chakra still let him survive multiple fights)

Sorry, the only thing you brought up that isn't countered is durability which lightning attacks Pierce through. If you're implying that ice make is more versatile than flame, amaterasu control, susanoo, chidori, chidori stream and sharpspear, move reading, snake summons, and hawk summons... Sorry, making a cage, gun, plugging a hole, or sending any number of objects that do accomplish the same goal does not equal or exceed. Planning around Racer's limitations doesn't equal or exceed consistently outplanning multiple of deidara's moves on the fly and living each time. And gray I believe has only recently got to the point of putting out cold temperatures capable of arguing the amaterasu thing.

Still going Sasuke. Gray is awesome, but no. Durability is negated by most Sasukes moves so i think you're over estimating Gray's control of his emotions and intelligence to win.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

I didn't say Sharingan can't see Magic, I said his precog won't work because that is based on muscle reading.

Gray figured out Racer's weakness and capitalized on it, figured out Ultear's weakness and capitalized on it, figured a way out in his fight with his father where it looked like there was none. You can't deny Sasuke is highly more emotional in fight than Gray and overestimates his abilities. Case in point his fight with Killer Bee. Sasuke acting all high and mighty and got trashed by Bee. Thought he paralyzed him with his Genjtusu and would've gotten killed if not for Karin and Juugo.

His flame control is not nearly advanced enough at this point. Raikage had the flame in his hand and Sasuke did nothing with it, Gaara had the flames in his sand and Sasuke still did nothing with it. The Samurais had the flame on their body and Sasuke did nothing with it long enough for Temari and Kankuro to intervene and remove it. He can at most wrap it around himself as a shield.

He outthought Danzo because Karin was there doing commentary work and Obito saved him from being killed. Deidara isn't really a smart individual.

Sasuke doesn't have Snake summons anymore at this point since Orochimaru got extracted from him at the fight with Itachi. And his Hawk Summon can be easily countered by Gray's Kite or he can just freeze the hawk solid.

None of his moves ignore Durability. Just because Chidori is piercing doesn't mean it will go through Gray's defenses willy nilly. That's a gross overestimation of it. Hell even Kirin which is basically Chidori on steroids couldn't go through a dying Itachi's Susano'o.

Regarding Sasuke's stamina. He was hurting every single time he used Susano'o during his fight with the kages and was panting all around. He would've dropped in his knees from the pain and lack of chakra hadn't Zetsu intervened and restored it. Even then he got trashed by Mei and her bodyguards. I can't stress this enough. He got TIRED after using Susano'o for a few seconds and was gasping for breath.

And Gray has frozen comparable fire way early in the manga as well as other high temperature attacks. If Amaterasu was threatening Juubi, he would've spammed it a LOT more. And wouldn't have a measly Town level with it in his EMS self.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Am I missing something? Both are Multi City Block level and I had to restrict Sasuke from using Complete Susanoo.

Also, wasn't it MS Sasuke that made Bee thrash around in pain when he used Amaterasu on him? And he did make the Juubi scream in pain Bee style when he used Amaterasu on it.

And Sasuke still has snake summons. He summoned Aoba during the war, didn't he?

I assume it's okay for me to remove the restriction on genjutsu? Since Fairy Tail characters have been shown breaking out of illusions and Sasuke is unlikely to use it. At least early in the fight.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

Am I missing something? Both are Multi City Block level and I had to restrict Sasuke from using Complete Susanoo.

He has Building level Dura without it.

Also, wasn't it MS Sasuke that made Bee thrash around in pain when he used Amaterasu on him? And he did make the Juubi scream in pain Bee style when he used Amaterasu on it.

I believe you remember my beef with this part of the story. This is why I suggested way back than Naruto fights be held back. There's a lot of inconsistencies regarding the verse, some of them regarding Amaterasu. As it stands he has Town level AP with it on his profile. I made a Content Revision Thread back then regarding Sasuke's and Amaterasu's AP and the answers I got were more inconsistencies.Hopefully the revisions will help clear this up a bit more.

And Sasuke still has snake summons. He summoned Aoba during the war, didn't he?
I was referring to his white snake stuff, regening with them and the like, but I forgot Aoda. Still he doesn't use it much, so it's not a really deciding factor.

I assume it's okay for me to remove the restriction on genjutsu? Since Fairy Tail characters have been shown breaking out of illusions and Sasuke is unlikely to use it.
Gray would get stomped if Genjutsu was allowed. Sasuke has used it numerous times before. He tried it against Deidara, against Bee, against Cee during the Kage Fight, used it against Danzo, used it heavily against Itachi. So it's very likely he will use it in this fight as well.

 

[Dancesnapple]

A) what comparable fire "way early" are you talking about? Because I've read the entire manga to date and do not recall anything such. There has been no flame in fairy tail given any of the attributes as amaterasu's. B)precog reads everything. That's why he could read haku's attacks through the ice mirrors as a kid, since the mirrors disguised him completely and the senbon attacks were made through the jutsu. C) Kirin blew away the susanoo and it was directly stated Itachi only survived because of yata mirror who h deflects ALL elements, and it DTILL got blown away until Itachi got up and reformed it. D) oh he lost snakes? Good thing he resigned the contract between eye surgery and the war..Manda knew Sasuke by name and Sasuke never once was mentioned to lose them. He has two summon contracts confirmed. E) I'll accept not full control. Fine. Either way, gray tries ANYTHING in close combat while susanoo ribs and flames are up, he dies. F) double checked. Gray at that point before second origin at absolute best is town to small City. This is tenrou island gray. He's not outclassing Sasuke in AP and his durability isn't gonna stop Sasukes top tier attacks. If this was modern gray, sure, he could high five this Sasuke's chidori, but not this Gray. Use ice to block some things? Sure, but Sasuke has the attack advantage. G) adapted to each of those scenarios AFTER getting his ass beat. Beat racer only through Lyon's presence. All his intelligence feats are based on adapting, which Sasuke has done the same. Know what gray hasn't done, systematically planned out an entire fight to the degree of setting up a one shot move before even knowing the opponents full arsenel and only having it fail through plot convenience of a new technique. Now with gray being level headed? Sasuke literally only lost his cool in one fight in Naruto shippuden, with danzo. Itachi doesn't count much since the fight was essentially over at that point anyway. Gray on the other hand? Has NEVER planned an entire fight and has tried to kill himself or natsu on three occasions, admittedly two of which were after this Gray. Still he operates entire on adapting, which Sasuke can also do, and has never planned to the degree that Sasuke has PROVEN he can. Still Sasuke.

 

[Dancesnapple]

Note I doubt snake summons or genjutsu would be used though. He didn't try genjutsu on Naruto back when that would've worked so I doubt he'd use it on gray here.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

A) So you're saying Gray has to freeze a Amaterasu look-alike now? Really? He froze solid Totomaru, a fire mage. Also this.

B) It wasn't the jutsu that threw the senbons lol, Haku was throwing them. Reading his hand movement you can deduce the senbon's trajectory.

C) Doesn't change the fact that Itachi was still standing. Yata Mirror or not, that still extends to Itachi's Durability.

D) Already addressed this.

E) That's the thing though. Gray doesn't have to try anything close quarters. Even then, he uses ice extensions. If those catch flames, that's no problem sincehe can easily detach them.

F) Profiles say otherwise.

G) Doesn't matter he still adapts and thinks quick on his feet, evidenced by his fights. The fact that Sasuke plans his attacks and still gets his butt kicked most of the times and has to rely on outside help, speaks volumes for his overconfidence. And Gray isn't the killing type to plan attacks. Usually the bad guys come to him, not the other way around. In a scenario with no prep, adaptability>>planning your attacks.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

About the genjutsu issue, like I said, Fairy Tail characters have been shown breaking out of illusions before, how does genjutsu make it a stomp? This is why I was confused about Sasuke vs Wendy.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

About the genjutsu issue, like I said, Fairy Tail characters have been shown breaking out of illusions before, how does genjutsu make it a stomp? This is why I was confused about Sasuke vs Wendy.

I keep hearing this but I can't remember when anyone broke out of a high level illusion before without it being a special ocassion like Erza vs Midnight for ex.

 

[Dancesnapple]

^same. Ft characters typically break using force of will or fluctuation of magic power which is no different from standard genjutsu defense. Except for the case of erza's fake eyegiving half immunity, they only have marginal defense against characters who specialize like any mangekyo user for example.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Laxus dispelled Mystogan's illusion. Genjutsu shouldn't be something stomp worthy in the first place. It's just normal telepathy/mind hax. If a character doesn't have resistance to it, it doesn't make it a stomp. For example, I'm pretty sure nobody calls Aizen's matches stomps because of KS. Especially in the case of Fairy Tail where illusions aren't foreign to them (I remember someone dispelling Mavis' illusions though I don't know if it's due to the strength difference). It's debatable if Sasuke's genjutsu will put Gray out and reading the flow of this fight, it's just something to give him an advantage. Depending on the situation, it can just give him a few moments of reprieve or enable him to land a decisive attack (if Gray breaks out of it).

 

[ScarletFirefly]

^That or Sasuke can make Gray foam from his mouth and paralyze him completely. Laxus dispelling Mystogan's magic isn't really a good example since Mystogans magic is subpar. The fact that Laxus calls it "a load of crap" makes you think about Mystogan's ability to cast genjutsu while the genjutsus made from the Mangekyo Sharingan are some from the highest class in Narutoverse. And even then, just because one FT character can break out of it, doesn't mean all will, that's a NLF.

 

[AidenBrooks999]

Considering we have a revision for Naruto, all fights should be retained for now.

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yes, I was just saying it's a possibility and genjutsu doesn't make it a stomp. Like I said or implied, that would be calling fights involving those with Telepathy or Mind Manipulation stomps. And that's surely not true. It's simply an advantage especially when Sasuke wouldn't use it off the bat for no reason.

By the way, at what point did Sasuke attempt using genjutsu against Deidara?

 

[Dancesnapple]

Yeah... Also aizen's illusions DO make most fights with him a stomp. Most people he's put against on here have in-built ways to counter it. But the mystogan example points to the same method of breaking it as standard Naruto characters like Sakura and shikamaru breaking genjutsu. Great for standard illusions... Not great for anything high tier illusions do. If that makes sense. Whereas characters like Itachi, kakashi, obito, Sasuke, madara, and even aizen can layer illusion onto illusion onto illusion, each extremely difficult for the best to break. Especially with the mangekyo techniques and such. It's too much if you put them against someone without a proper defense.

Though to be fair, if Goku was put under tsukuyomi by Itachi, that just because a test of breaking goku's will which even kakashi almost over stressed Itachi at one point, so illusions don't make insta wins with power gaps that massive. Goku would be like "dafuq?? Blast" same for people like Thor, Superman, saint seya. Etc. It makes stomps when the fights are on comparable power level.

 

[ScarletFirefly]

By the way, at what point did Sasuke attempt using genjutsu against Deidara?

Tried it halfway into the fight I believe, but Deidara resisted it due to training one of his eyes to resist illusions (lol wtf)

 

[Burning_Full_Fingers]

Yeah, I don't agree with that, but okay.