Satella (Re:Zero) vs Tournament of power

[Celestial_Pegasus]

What kind of match even is this? Stomp one way or the other.

Now that i see this match, i gonna make a CRT to remove Madness Manipulation to all the witches, except Echidina, since they should't even have that lol.

But for this match, since the madness manipulation of Satella don't kill immediality, Zeno closes his hands and she got erased.

Probably right, basically Echidna revealed her true nature for 30 seconds in front of a group of ppl and they all went insane and died.

However that was Omega (Echidna), not Echidna in the tomb, Omega has the souls of all 6 witches, and when Omega revealed her true nature, that included all 6 witches, in other words that feat is attributable to all 6 witches not 1.

Tomb Echidna and other witches don't show feats of diving ppl insane, they just have this aura that causes overwhelming fear, and anyone who sees them starts vomiting, idk what to classify the latter as, poison manipulation? Biological manipulation? Or maybe they cause such fear that it causes the vomiting?

Satella is different though, her miasma does cause insanity, but it's dependent on distance. It covers the entire sand dunes, but it doesn't really do much until you get close to her, and Subaru and co didn't instantly go insane, took a little time.

 

[Fezzih_007]

What kind of match even is this? Stomp one way or the other.

Most of the DB matches is like this.

Probably right, basically Echidna revealed her true nature for 30 seconds in front of a group of ppl and they all went insane and died.

However that was Omega (Echidna), not Echidna in the tomb, Omegas has the souls of all 6 witches, Tomb Echidna does too, but anyway, when Omega revealed her true nature, that included all 6 witches, in other words that feat is attributable to 6 witches not 1.

Tomb Echidna and other witches don't show feats of diving ppl insane, they just have this aura that causes overwhelming fear, and anyone who sees them starts vomiting, idk what to classify the latter as, poisin manipulation? Biological manipulation? Or maybe they cause such fear that it causes the vomiting?

Satella is different though, her miasma does cause insanity, but it's dependent on distance. It covers the entire sand dunes, but it doesn't really do much until you get close to her.

Yeah i finishing the CRT tomorrow, so we can discusses in detail.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Love how nobody noticed that this page was in joke battles

 

[GarrixianXD]

This is a stomp one way or another, either they're all in Satellas miasmas range and passively lose, or Zeno deletes her. Given the starting range is a maximum of 4km in SBA, I would imagine the former given how large the cave they were wandering in was in arc 6. Not to mention Subaru has resistance to madness manipulation, unlike Zeno, so it would likely take a lot less time (and require less range) for Zeno to go insane than Subaru did.

The killing process isn’t instant, that’s a huge obstacle

 

[GarrixianXD]

What kind of match even is this? Stomp one way or the other.



Probably right, basically Echidna revealed her true nature for 30 seconds in front of a group of ppl and they all went insane and died.

However that was Omega (Echidna), not Echidna in the tomb, Omega has the souls of all 6 witches, and when Omega revealed her true nature, that included all 6 witches, in other words that feat is attributable to all 6 witches not 1.

Tomb Echidna and other witches don't show feats of diving ppl insane, they just have this aura that causes overwhelming fear, and anyone who sees them starts vomiting, idk what to classify the latter as, poison manipulation? Biological manipulation? Or maybe they cause such fear that it causes the vomiting?

Satella is different though, her miasma does cause insanity, but it's dependent on distance. It covers the entire sand dunes, but it doesn't really do much until you get close to her, and Subaru and co didn't instantly go insane, took a little time.

If any of them is aware they’re going insane then they’ll fire a ki blast and one-shot rather than losing their minds

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

The killing process isn’t instant, that’s a huge obstacle

The madness is though, they will instantly go mad and kill themselves

If any of them is aware they’re going insane then they’ll fire a ki blast and one-shot rather than losing their minds

They would already be mad if they come in contact with Satella, all thats left would be to kill themselves. As stated earlier nobody has shown any feats of even recognising madness manipulation forget resisting it

 

[GarrixianXD]

The madness is though, they will instantly go mad and kill themselves

They would already be mad if they come in contact with Satella, all thats left would be to kill themselves. As stated earlier nobody has shown any feats of even recognising madness manipulation forget resisting it

They know about mind tricks, why would madness tricks be anything new? Yes, they’ll go mad but how are they gonna instantly kill themselves?

 

[SubaruN2000]

They know about mind tricks, why would madness tricks be anything new? Yes, they’ll go mad but how are they gonna instantly kill themselves?

Satellas miasma made Subaru, Ram, Scarf echidna, and Patrache go insane to the point that they started killing each other. It does take time to get to that point though so it's not instant and its potency is distance dependent, but Satella affecting people with her miasma is passive. So either way this match is a stomp for one of the sides. Really depends on the starting distance tbh.

 

[GarrixianXD]

Satellas miasma made Subaru, Ram, Scarf echidna, and Patrache go insane to the point that they started killing each other. It does take time to get to that point though so it's not instant and its potency is distance dependent, but Satella affecting people with her miasma is passive. So either way this match is a stomp for one of the sides. Really depends on the starting distance tbh.

Passive or not, doesn’t matter. Vegeta would be an exception so might as well excluded him from this match lmao

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

They know about mind tricks, why would madness tricks be anything new? Yes, they’ll go mad but how are they gonna instantly kill themselves?

Becuz mind tricks and madness hax is different? I have already explained why resisting mind control does not mean you can save your mind from going insane, not to mention people with resistance to madness manip were also affected gradually. Factor in that nobody has shown madness manipulation resistance and its clear why Satella wins

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Passive or not, doesn’t matter. Vegeta would be an exception so might as well excluded him from this match lmao

Why would he be an exception?

 

[Padaruyos]

Wouldn't DB characters going insane would just nuke the hell out of everything? Everyone dies.

 

[Fezzih_007]

I return to this thread and people are still discussing, even trought Sattela don't have MM anymore.

Love how nobody noticed that this page was in joke battles

I did, but the joke is not so funny to me so i kind took a little serious.

The madness is though, they will instantly go mad and kill themselves

Is not, it take 2 seconds to took effect on the bandits, and Sattela MM is show to be slower.

Wouldn't DB characters going insane would just nuke the hell out of everything? Everyone dies.

No, the Dragon Ball Char would just survive the attack, since they would control the energy of the attack.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

I return to this thread and people are still discussing, even trought Sattela don't have MM anymore.

Pegasus said he will add it later at once after finishing arc 4

Is not, it take 2 seconds to took effect on the bandits, and Sattela MM is show to be slower.

Subaru withstood that same aura so he has resistance. Obviously it would work slower on him if he has resistance but even without that the main reason for the slow effect was due to the massive distance and the fact that they were getting closer to it meaning the effect increased as they got closer.

No, the Dragon Ball Char would just survive the attack, since they would control the energy of the attack.

They would end up killing themselves like the bandits

 

[Fezzih_007]

Pegasus said he will add it later at once after finishing arc 4

Yeah, makes some kind of sense, since atleast she have some feats.

Subaru withstood that same aura so he has resistance.

He also got insane during the cave, what?

Obviously it would work slower on him if he has resistance but even without that the main reason for the slow effect was due to the massive distance and the fact that they were getting closer to it meaning the effect increased as they got closer.

Yeah, and Zeno would Just erase her, he would't get closer.

They would end up killing themselves like the bandits

They really won't trought, since Echidina and Satella have cleary different tiers of MM, and everyone close to Echidina died, and Satella take like hours.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Yeah, makes some kind of sense, since atleast she have some feats.

He also got insane during the cave, what?

Yeah, and Zeno would Just erase her, he would't get closer.

They really won't trought, since Echidina and Satella have cleary different tiers of MM, and everyone close to Echidina died, and Satella take like hours.

the reason i say that Satella>Echidna in terms of MM is due to Subaru taking absolutely no damage from Echidna's while he went gradually insane with Satella's Miasma. which means that Satella's MM can affect people with resistance albeit much slower, which puts it above Echidna who could instantly kill people with it , thus people with no resistance would get killed instantly. Also this is SBA and Satella's range has been confirmed to be tens of kilometers so she definitely MM as soon as the battle starts and stomps the db verse, Zeno aint doing shit here

 

[Fezzih_007]

the reason i say that Satella>Echidna in terms of MM is due to Subaru taking absolutely no damage from Echidna's while he went gradually insane with Satella's Miasma.

Ok, first of all, Echidna can lesser the effects of her MM and release when she need, so Subaru and everyone else can stand around her no problem, so Subaru don't have any resistance to it.

which means that Satella's MM can affect people with resistance albeit much slower, which puts it above Echidna who could instantly kill people with it

Second, that makes no sense, like if i have resistance to fire manipulation because i got shot by a fire ball and that thing don't effect me in the slightly, but then i get trown on a room that constatly spilling out fire, and stay there for like 2 or 4 hours, and gradualy get burned to death, that just mean my resistance is kinda bad, not that the fire is is better than the fireball that i took.

, thus people with no resistance would get killed instantly.

Third, MM don't kill people, just makes them insase so they kill themself, but you probally just made a mistake now
Forth, is funny because Ram, Anastasia and Patrache din't go insane instantaneous, they din't kill themselfs instantaneous, and neither of them got resistance to it.
(The events are, Subaru starts talking with Ram because he was bored, Ram gets angry with him because his was talking, they argue and Ram mentions Rem to Subaru, Subaru goes berseker and tries to kill Ram, Ram also is going to kill Subaru, Anastasia interverns and stab Ram with a knife so she and Subaru can resume walking, Ram trows wind magic on them killing Anastisia, while Subaru use Invisible providence on her and trows her on the ground, and Patrache goes and kill them both, so basically the MM is just took the rational thinking of them, they got angry at each other, and then killed themself, and that took hours to occur, and they need a reasoning. So unseless they stand there for hours, and got angry between themselfs for some reason, they be fine).

Also this is SBA and Satella's range has been confirmed to be tens of kilometers so she definitely MM as soon as the battle starts and stomps the db verse, Zeno aint doing shit

If the Re:ZERO characters got characters with better Hax, then we can discuss as a joke a fight with Zeno, but until then, none of the characters got anything to defeat him.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Ok, first of all, Echidna can lesser the effects of her MM and release when she need, so Subaru and everyone else can stand around her no problem, so Subaru don't have any resistance to it.

its mentioned by Echidna that normally people vomit on seeing her even when she has it suppressed and we have seen this with Roswaal. She was surprised Subaru didnt do the same thing and was in fact completely unaffected however later on in the conversation there is a point when Echidna releases her aura and Subaru instantly feels like vomitting but he manages to stop himself, showing resistance to the same aura. which then implies that Subaru has resistance to MM as it takes more than baseline to even get him to react to it. its also worth mentioning that Echidna didnt slowly increase her aura to see when Subaru would react but instead let it out at once and knowing her personality I have absolutely no doubt she would have done something that could have killed him just to see the result.

Second, that makes no sense, like if i have resistance to fire manipulation because i got shot by a fire ball and that thing don't effect me in the slightly, but then i get trown on a room that constatly spilling out fire, and stay there for like 2 or 4 hours, and gradualy get burned to death, that just mean my resistance is kinda bad, not that the fire is is better than the fireball that i took.

Thats still resistance no matter how you look at it, you can try to lowball it but it would still end up above Subaru's resistance meaning she can in fact kill people with it

Third, MM don't kill people, just makes them insase so they kill themself, but you probally just made a mistake now
Forth, is funny because Ram, Anastasia and Patrache din't go insane instantaneous, they din't kill themselfs instantaneous, and neither of them got resistance to it.
(The events are, Subaru starts talking with Ram because he was bored, Ram gets angry with him because his was talking, they argue and Ram mentions Rem to Subaru, Subaru goes berseker and tries to kill Ram, Ram also is going to kill Subaru, Anastasia interverns and stab Ram with a knife so she and Subaru can resume walking, Ram trows wind magic on them killing Anastisia, while Subaru use Invisible providence on her and trows her on the ground, and Patrache goes and kill them both, so basically the MM is just took the rational thinking of them, they got angry at each other, and then killed themself, and that took hours to occur, and they need a reasoning. So unseless they stand there for hours, and got angry between themselfs for some reason, they be fine).

uhh i thought it was obvious that they would kill themselves and not die from the MM?

If the Re:ZERO characters got characters with better Hax, then we can discuss as a joke a fight with Zeno, but until then, none of the characters got anything to defeat him.

Now that i think of it, can Zeno be killed by Reinhard's nuke?

 

[Fezzih_007]

its mentioned by Echidna that normally people vomit on seeing her even when she has it suppressed and we have seen this with Roswaal. She was surprised Subaru didnt do the same thing and was in fact completely unaffected however later on in the conversation there is a point when Echidna releases her aura and Subaru instantly feels like vomitting but he manages to stop himself, showing resistance to the same aura. which then implies that Subaru has resistance to MM as it takes more than baseline to even get him to react to it. its also worth mentioning that Echidna didnt slowly increase her aura to see when Subaru would react but instead let it out at once and knowing her personality I have absolutely no doubt she would have done something that could have killed him just to see the result.

That's fear manipulation trought, not MM since they din't go insane.

Thats still resistance no matter how you look at it, you can try to lowball it but it would still end up above Subaru's resistance meaning she can in fact kill people with it

I din't say it doesn't kill, i just say it took hour.

uhh i thought it was obvious that they would kill themselves and not die from the MM?

But you said "thus people with no resistance would get killed instantly" Like, they would stand around her and die right away.

Now that i think of it, can Zeno be killed by Reinhard's nuke?

Only if we made the match incredible favorable to Reinhard.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

That's fear manipulation trought, not MM since they din't go insane.

its the same thing but the people with resistance just puke instead of straight up going on the verge of killing themselves.

I din't say it doesn't kill, i just say it took hour.

for people with resistance, yeah. but for people with no resistance? this is probably gonna end with them killing themselves immediately

But you said "thus people with no resistance would get killed instantly" Like, they would stand around her and die right away.

as in people will go insane instantly and kill themselves

Only if we made the match incredible favorable to Reinhard.

how favorable, cuz i know that Zeno does not have matter manip resistance and Reinhard just needs to swing once

 

[Fezzih_007]

its the same thing

Not really the same thing, someone with fear inducement can potentially make someone scared enough to kill themselfs, but is not really what Echidina is doing, the characters look at her, they know that she can kill them, and they puke out fear, she is not making they scared enough to reach insanity.

but the people with resistance just puke instead of straight up going on the verge of killing themselves.

Btw, roswaal don't have MM resistance, so like... That's seems like a assumption.

for people with resistance, yeah. but for people with no resistance? this is probably gonna end with them killing themselves immediately
as in people will go insane instantly and kill themselves

Ok

how favorable, cuz i know that Zeno does not have matter manip resistance and Reinhard just needs to swing once

Well, we need to make speed equal (obvious), bloodlust(so Reinhard starts with that attack), starting meters of 5(so the beam reaches Zeno before he erases him and the attack), Zeno would need to stay stopped by 3 seconds(so he can't close his Hands immediality) and prep time (so Reinhard can charge his attack)

That's just a few, that's probally a few more, but this would be Fun to see, i gonna a match like that one day.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Well, we need to make speed equal (obvious), bloodlust(so Reinhard starts with that attack), starting meters of 5(so the beam reaches Zeno before he erases him and the attack), Zeno would need to stay stopped by 3 seconds(so he can't close his Hands immediality) and prep time (so Reinhard can charge his attack)

Reinhard doesnt need to be bloodlusted nor does he need charge time as he usually nukes as soon as SBA starts and his attack is just a powered sword swing so doesnt need charging either. the rest is probably required, I am not quite sure of the starting distance but the match would then end up being if Reinhard can swing his sword faster of Zeno can clap his hands faster

 

[Fezzih_007]

Reinhard doesnt need to be bloodlusted nor does he need charge time as he usually nukes as soon as SBA starts and his attack is just a powered sword swing so doesnt need charging either.

Din't he need to gather mana around the atmosfere so he can do the attack? Like in the loot house or the puck scene? That atleast took 2 to 3 seconds so he can shoot the beam. Atleast in the manga he did It, i don't remember the anime or LN.
And bloodlust, so he goes for the kill, or atleast previous knowledgement, so he knows How dangerous Zeno is, and go for the kill.

the rest is probably required, I am not quite sure of the starting distance but the match would then end up being if Reinhard can swing his sword faster of Zeno can clap his hands faster

Yeah, If we did with the requirements, that would probally be inconclusive or a stomp for Rein.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Din't he need to gather mana around the atmosfere so he can do the attack? Like in the loot house or the puck scene? That atleast took 2 to 3 seconds so he can shoot the beam. Atleast in the manga he did It, i don't remember the anime or LN.

it was just a sword swing and it powered up as he took it above, the speed isnt specified anywhere and should just be considered his normal speed as we dont see anybody in the series ever react to it.

And bloodlust, so he goes for the kill, or atleast previous knowledgement, so he knows How dangerous Zeno is, and go for the kill.

SBA is willing to kill and a Reinhard willing to kill is basically the same as his bloodlusted form. Reinhard hasn't ever been pacified mid battle becuz he usually makes sure the other party is ready to fight and isn't afraid to die.

Yeah, If we did with the requirements, that would probally be inconclusive or a stomp for Rein.

perhaps

 

[GarrixianXD]

Why would he be an exception?

Precognition comes from the mind, type 3 madness manipulation strikes the mind. Resistances has limits too so a stronger hax would obviously neg a weaker resistance.
Babidi’s mind power worked on Majin Buu who has 4-D powers and abilities.
Unless Satella‘s hax works by other methods aside from the mind, she won’t be affecting Vegeta.

Becuz mind tricks and madness hax is different? I have already explained why resisting mind control does not mean you can save your mind from going insane, not to mention people with resistance to madness manip were also affected gradually. Factor in that nobody has shown madness manipulation resistance and its clear why Satella wins

Well, since you said “gradually“ literally anyone could react in-time

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Precognition comes from the mind, type 3 madness manipulation strikes the mind. Resistances has limits too so a stronger hax would obviously neg a weaker resistance.
Babidi’s mind power worked on Majin Buu who has 4-D powers and abilities.
Unless Satella‘s hax works by other methods aside from the mind, she won’t be affecting Vegeta.

It corrupts both the mind and soul, also having 4D powers in one category does not mean you have 4D abilities and resistances in others

Well, since you said “gradually“ literally anyone could react in-time

That gradually is relevant for people with resistance to madness manipulation, I am also positive that normal people would get corrupted instantly

 

[GarrixianXD]

It corrupts both the mind and soul, also having 4D powers in one category does not mean you have 4D abilities and resistances in others

That gradually is relevant for people with resistance to madness manipulation, I am also positive that normal people would get corrupted instantly

Vegeta resists soul hax as well. I didn't see you explain about it attacking the soul. I haven't watched much of Re: Zero so I'll be looking forward to your explanation.

What I stated was that Babidi's mindhax is extremely powerful and had a permanent effect on someone like Majin Buu. Unless you have prove that her madness aura has layered up to solar-system to low-multiversal then there's really no debate here.

I don't recall a witch could make someone go mad in an instant and your last assertion is simply a raw postulation.

 

[SatellaTheWoE]

Vegeta resists soul hax as well. I didn't see you explain about it attacking the soul. I haven't watched much of Re: Zero so I'll be looking forward to your explanation.

There really isnt much to explain, its simply stated that the witchs miasma causes corruption in the mind and soul, this is probably becuz of it being able invade a persons Od which is basically their essence of existence

What I stated was that Babidi's mindhax is extremely powerful and had a permanent effect on someone like Majin Buu. Unless you have prove that her madness aura has layered up to solar-system to low-multiversal then there's really no debate here.

What kind of powerscaling are you using
1. Madness Manipulation and Mind hax are 2 different things
2. Madness hax does not scale to AP, ìts based on layers which defines the potency of the hax

I don't recall a witch could make someone go mad in an instant and your last assertion is simply a raw postulation.

You probably havent read the novels but there is this cut scene at the end of S2 when Echidna revives herself in Omegas body. Basically what happens is that a group of about 30 bandits try to rob her after she was exploring the area and so she challenged them to survive 30 seconds in her true presence. Then she let out her aura which made them go insane and kill themselves almost instantly.
Witches are creatures which normal people cant come close too due to their existence being so goddam dangerous, those who survive and not get killed immediately puke at her sight which is why Echidna was surprised when Subaru was unaffected when he saw her in the citadel of dreams. Even Roswaal had initially vomitted on seeing her.
The same Subaru was driven to madness in the presence of the witchs miasma and although this took a while to settle in, Subaru already has previously shown to be resistant to madness manipulation which means that her miasma is atleast double layered.