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Scooby-Doo Verse Revisions

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ChemistKyle89

ChemistKyle89

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Shaggy Rogers Shaggy currently has Reality Warping. I believe this should be reclassed as Toon Force. This would explain the way he and Scooby always seem to have a costume when necessary, and the comedic way he makes a sandwich appear Shaggy creates a sandwich. I don't think he needs Summoning (Food and Water). [Scooby has Toon Force but not Reality Warping].

I would also like clarification on the Fire Breath Shaggy/Scooby have. There's no current feat listed beside it. If this is simply from them eating hot foods and shooting fire out their mouths, then that should also fall under Toon Force. Several of his other abilities need justification.

Also, Martial Arts is listed twice...for some reason.

Under Feats, his Summoning feat has an Unavaliable video listed.

Also, for clarification, are all movies and cartoons up to today's time considered canon? It would also be nice to have a profile for the Movie versions as well.

It would be preferable to see a couple calcs done to get his Attack Potency. I would definitely like to see a calc to justify his Speed (just because the monster was made of electricity doesn't necessarily mean it moved that fast).

His Lifting Strength is Fine, as is his Striking Strength (once we get his AP calced and approved), and his Durability actually does have a feat, so it's fine.

Scooby-Doo

Several of Scooby's powers need justification, and if they aren't part of his normal abilities or require additional equipment, they should be reformatted like Shaggy's page where there is a tab for Optional Equipment. Some may also need separated into resistances instead of powers. Unlike Shaggy, Scooby doesn't have any feats listed below on his page below his weaknesses for easy reference.

It would be preferable to see some calcs done for his AP, and Speed. His Lifting/Striking Strength will be fine. He has a feat listed for Durability (with no link) that needs to be calculated.

Daphne Blake

Would like justification on Daphne's Size Manipulation power. The Ability to breathe in space comes from a comic team-up, so I'd like to know if that's considered canon.

It would be preferable to see a calc done for her AP, Speed, and Durability (No current durability feat). We can scale her other traits from getting those nailed down.

Fred Jones

Would like justification on Fred's Size Manipulation.

I would like to see a calc done for his Rip the head off a Zombie feat and/or one of his other feats for his AP. His Speed needs a calc, and his Durability needs a feat and a calc.

Velma Dinkley

Velma has Martial Arts listed in powers. I would like a little justification for that. I don't remember her being a fighter. I would also like to see justification for Self-Sustenance (Type 1) and Resistance to Fire Manipulation.

It would be preferable to see a calc done for her AP, Speed, and Durability (No current durability feat). We can scale her other traits from getting those nailed down.

Other Characters

There's no page for Scrappy Doo for starters. There could be pages for the Boo Brothers, the Ghoul School characters, Dracula and the other Reluctant Werewolf characters, perhaps the Werecat villains from Zombie Island, and numerous other characters.
 
I think that this makes sense.

Also, I think that all of the cartoons are considered as canon, but if there have been reboots, we should probably separate the pages into multiple versions and rename them.
 
I could see how all the cartoons are, for the most part, canon. I'm not sure if any of the newer versions are separate or not. I also don't know if all their crossover episodes are canon or not. For instance, is Scoobynatural canon?

I think what we need to know is if all the Animated Movies are canon to the cartoon. There's a new animated movie coming out called Scoob! for instance. There's also several featuring crossovers that probably should be verified canon or not (WWE, Batman, the Brave & the Bold, etc.). Obviously the Live-Action movies are their own canon (and possibly more than one canon of them - The Mystery begins was a Live-Action reboot for instance). The LEGO one is probably it's own canon.

Finally, the comics. The comics seem to be spread across three different titles: Where Are You; Team-Up; and Scooby Apocalypse. Currently, Scooby Apocalypse has it's own separate tab, but the other two seem to be paired together and they seem to also be melded with all the cartoons and movies. I think we need verification if the Where Are You and the Team-Up comics are separate lines (the Team-Up comics were the next series of the Where Are You so it looks like to me they'd be separate) and if they are considered canon to the cartoons / animated movies.

All in all, this is going to take some research in regards to canonicity.
 
I'm also pretty sure all the Nanite stuff listed on Scooby's cartoon page should be moved over to the Scooby Apocalypse page. Like, 98.3% certain.
 
Ah ha! They get their speed from outrunning not the Phantom Virus, but the Electric Monster from Watt a Story from Archie Comics. It's a *************** link though, so I won't post it here. [You can find the link on Daphne's respect thread though].

I'd probably call it an outlier though if it only happened once.
 
Okay. You can upload the relevant scans to this wiki if you wish.

Thank you for helping out. It is appreciated.
 
The speed thing happens here Gang outruns Electric Monster. I've asked a few staff to comment, mainly ones I've seen elsewhere.

Shaggy's earthquake powers seem to come from when he's Shaggy Marvel Knee shaking earthquake.
 
I think first and foremost we need to draw the lines on what we consider the different canons. Then we need to go through and determine base stats. Then finally, we could throw in a Temporary Powers tab for powers that are displayed only once in a particular movie and/or comic.
 
That seems fine to me. Thanks again for helping out.
 
So...this isn't going to be simple at all. There's 14 TV Shows featuring 10 Crossover episodes, 4 Animated TV Films, 33 (going on 34) Direct-to-Video Films, an Animated Theatrical Film coming out, 5 Television Specials, 5 Live Actions Films, 6 Direct-to-Video Specials, and 13 Comic Series.

The Live Action Films seem split into two timelines. Daphne & Velma, Scooby-Doo, and Scooby-Doo 2: Monsters Unleashed seems to be one timeline. Scooby-Doo! The Mystery Begins and Scooby-Doo! Curse of the Lake Monster seems to be another timeline.

I didn't find anything definitive concerning whether the comics and the cartoons were related, other than the Team-Up comics seem to be a continuation of The New Scooby-Doo Movies. According to wikipedia, the summary for the Team-Up series says they have a new guest character each issue...so a lot of the powers in that series in particular would be one-offs.

One of the writers of the Archie Comics Scooby-Doo, Bill Vallely, didn't consider his stories canon to the cartoon series Interview. That could possibly apply to all the Archie Comics, which would include their speed feat for outrunning the electric monster.

From 1997-2010 DC Comics ran Scooby-Doo!, then they picked up with a replacement called Scooby-Doo, Where Are You? in 2010-current. The Where Are You seems to be a continuation, and this seems to be the longest running and what I would call the main Comic Timeline.

The Scooby Apocalypse comic is a timeline unto itself. The LEGO stuff would be it's own timeline.

Other than that, I don't know exactly where to split the TV shows because I haven't seen them all. Then there's the question of how the animated movies relate to the TV shows. Some of the movies would be placed in different show timelines, if it's determined the shows / movies are related. Also, some of the powers used in the movies would be one-offs (such as Shaggy/Scooby breathing fire in the Kiss movie).

The TV shows would probably be turned into 6-7 different timelines...though I'm unsure how much different the individual characters would be. The animated movies would probably all fit into these timelines. I haven't seen them all, so I don't know for sure.

Do we need that many tabs? Probably not. Is my knowledge of the verse complete enough to fill all this out? Nope. We may be better off just trying to edit the current pages to fit the powers/abilities we can consistently attribute to them and include a separate tab for Temporary Powers.
 
The cartoons have a troubled timeline, but they're all mostly canon based on Scooby-Doo, Where Are You! The only ones that are strictly independent are Mystery Incorporated and Be Cool. Guess Who tries to look the same as Where Are You!, but the Flash episode made that pretty much impossible (and the Hex Girls episode will likely make it even more impossible).

The comics (not counting Apocalypse) are supposed to compliment the cartoons like Where Are You! and for a time What's New, Scooby-Doo? One of the writers of the Archie run explicitly said they weren't canon, but this is to be expected when you push it into other mediums. Scoobypedia wasn't counting the comics as canon, but everything that happened in 2019, made it somewhat petty to single it out as not counting.

I hope this helps.
 
Perhaps we should at least separate the cartoon shows and the comics based on it then?
 
In any case, we do need to get rid of all unreliable powers and abilities.
 
Okay, let's go through this feat-by-feat that's listed and power-by-power.

First off, there's the feat that gives them Supersonic speed. That's a feat from the Archie Comic, which should be counted as non-canon anyway, in addition to the feat only appearing once (to our knowledge), showing it was probably an outlier regardless. Shaggy and Scooby have Massively Hypersonic reactions from reacting to a bolt of lightning featured in the Gold Key comics (the original comics that ran for 30 issues from 1970-1975). Even if we considered it canon, we only have one instance of them reacting to lightning...which would indicate an outlier.

It would be correct to give them SuperHuman speed, because the whole gang can keep up with Scooby. A quick google search of how fast is a great dane yielded 30 mph = 13.4 m/s, which falls into the Superhuman category. Unless/Until we get an actual calc on their speed at some point, I feel this is a reasonable assumption. [This would probably also be applied to the Slime Mutant, Creeping Creatures, Sarah Ravencroft, Man-Crab, Que Horrifico, and Phantom Virus, who all get their scaling from the gang.

Now, let's look at individual powers and see what we can quantify.

Shaggy Rogers

Tier: He's listed as 9-B, Higher with transformations/power-ups. {We may want to remove the higher with transformations/power-ups part} [I'd just make him 9-B]

Powers: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Toon Force, Vehicular Mastery, Gymnastics, Superhuman Digestion, Time Stop & Time Manipulation, Able to see and interact with ghosts (multiple instances of ghosts - Ghoul School, Witch's Ghost, Boo Brothers) are all powers I have no problems with. I'd like to see some justification for Regenerationn (Likely Low), but I feel that's probably reasonable as well. Sound Manipulation most likely comes from his ability to throw his voice in the cartoon, and if that's the case, I have no problem with that one either.

-Edit: Their Time Stop & Time Manipulation would also be Toon Force Time Stop & Rewind

Multiple Personalities / Martial Arts (first listing) comes from Scooby-Doo! Legend of the Phantosaur (2011 DTV Movie), which would imply it's a one-off. The other listing of Martial Arts probably applies to Scooby-Doo! and the Samurai Sword (2009 DTV Movie) and is another case of only applies to that movie. Normal Shaggy, to my knowledge, hasn't demonstrated any significant fighting skills.

I'm not sure whre Acausality (Type 1) comes from.

Fire Breath comes from Scooby-Doo! and Kiss: Rock and Roll Mystery (2015 DTV Movie) and is a one-off. Wish for Fire Breath, Uses Fire Breath.

I'm not sure where Magic comes from, but I am sure it's not part of his standard abilities (may come from Scooby-Doo! and the Goblin King...but if so it's a one-off).

Transformation: He gets turned against his will into a werewolf in Scooby-Doo! and the Reluctant Werewolf, but resolves that by the end of the movie, leaving him human again. His Shaggy Marvel form, as far as I can tell, is from the Team-Up comics, and shouldn't be considered as part of his standard powers. In Scooby-Doo! and the Goblin King (2008 DTV Movie) he drinks a potion to temporarily pose as a very ugly version of Daphne. All these instances of Transformation aren't anything he himself does - other sources are required to fuel them, so we could probably remove this power.

I'm not sure where Dream Scrying or Dream Manipulation comes from, but I'm sure that's not part of his standard abilities.

Reality Warping can be removed (we replaced it with Toon Force).

Can create earthquakes comes from the Team-Up comic where he's Shaggy Marvel - definitely not a standard ability. Elasticity is also from the Team-Up comic and is definitely not standard.

I'm not sure where Animal Manipulation comes from, but I'm sure that's not part of his standard abilities.

Can read minds comes from a comic Read Minds? and I'm honestly not sure if it should apply from the scan at all.

Summoning (Food and Water) is done by way of Toon Force, so we can probably remove Summoning.

Resistances Tab: I'm not sure where Ice Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, Fire Manipulation, or Memory Manipulation comes from.

Mind Manipulation (Resistance) occurs in the Team-Up comic vs Gorilla Grodd and in the Scooby-Doo! Pirates Ahoy! (2006 DTV Movie) but wouldn't necessarily be considered a standard power.

Optional Equipment Tab: Shapeshifting (Via Magic Vitals {should be Vials}) probably comes from the Goblin King and isn't standard.

Sealing (Via Chest of Demons and Tome of Doom)...not sure where that's from...probably a one-off.

Summoning (Via Magic Cards)...again, not sure where it's from...probably also a one-off.

Size Manipulation (Via Bio-belt) may be from the Team-Up comic with Atom...not entirely sure...probably a one-off though.

Yellow Lantern Ring is definitely from the Team-Up comic and is a one-off. Energy Manipulation, Energy Projection, Portal Creation, Forcefield Creation, and Flight are listed as powers from the Yellow Langern Ring.

{I'm in favor of getting rid of the Team-Up comic stuff. After that, there's no definitive evidence that any of his temporary transformations make him any stronger}

Attack Potency: Wall Level+ (Beat up a group of bikers who were strong enough to hurt ghost robot dinosaurs. Can break a door off its hinges. Held his own against the Creeping creatures, who tore through walls. Should scale to his Durability), Higher with transformations and Power ups. {The biker thing is a one-off from the Phantosaur movie and is not standard Shaggy. The door breaking is also from the Phantosaur movie. The Creeping Creatures are rated at Wall Level. His Durability was calced at Wall Level+ from the surviving a hut being blown up by a fireball in Aloha, Scooby-Doo! - 2005 DTV Movie. I'm not sure I'd scale his AP to his Durability though}

Speed: {Covered this earlier, should be listed as SuperHuman}

Lifting Strength: Peak Human (Able to carry Scooby, Daphne, Velma, and Fred all at the same time), Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups {Incidentally, I did a quick google search for the Scooby Gang being carried...and it's usually Velma doing the carrying, though Fred does this also...either way, I'm fine with scaling them all to Peak Human. I'd probably remove the Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups due to most of the power ups being comic based and none of the cartoon ones showing any increased abilities}

Striking Strength: Wall Class+, Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups. {I'd probably drop it down to Wall Class, and remove the Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups}

Durability: Wall Level+ (Aloha Scooby-Doo), Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups. {I'd okay the calc for durability even though it's from a movie - which could be considered a one-off. It isn't an unreasonable feat though. I'd remove the Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups though.}

Stamina: {Probably fine}

Range: {The Sword of Fate was only from the Samurai movie and not part of his standard range. I'd remove the higher with missiles and energy beam - comes from a different cartoon continuity and relies on him being in his Zoinksman robot. I'd also remove the unknown with reality warp part}.

Scooby Doo {Note to Self: Nanite Scooby Snacks are from the Get a Clue Universe, not Scooby Apocalypse}

Tier: He's listed as 9-B, Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks {Needs moved to Scooby Apocalypse}, as Yellow Lantern {In favor of removing this}, and with transformations/power-ups {also in favor of removing this due to lack of evidence} [I'd just make him 9-B]

Powers/Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Stealth Mastery, Toon Force, Time Stop & Time Manipulation, Sound Manipulation (Voice Throwing?) are fine. Resistance to Mind Manipulation is a possibility (resists Hypnotism in Pirates Ahoy!).

Not sure about Acausality (Type 1).

Fire Breath is a one-off from the Kiss movie. Not a standard power.

Not sure where Summoning (Via Magic Cards) comes from, definitely not a standard power.

Swords Mastery and marksmanship - probably from the Samurai Movie - probably a one-off and not a standard power. Martial Arts may also come from this movie but is definitely not a standard power.

Able to breathe in space...not sure where this comes from - definitely not a standard power unless proven otherwise.

Able to walk on water...eh? Not sure on this one.

High Metabolism...this is an ability?

Electricity Manipulation, Sealing, Portal Creation, Cloth Creation, Energy Projection, Energy Manipulation...none of these are standard and should be removed.

Biological Manipulation with Scooby Snacks Nanites which can give them different powers such as Super Strength, Duplication, Invisibility, Forcefield Creation, Magnetic Attraction, Robot Mode, Ability to Shrink himself to the size of a micro sd card, Super Speed, Flight by creating wings, Laser Reflection, Super Sonic Blasts, and Time Travel. {This entire block should be moved to the Scooby Apocalypse page. It's definitely not standard Scooby}.

Not sure where Resistance to Fire Manipulation, Ice Manipulation, Empathic Manipulation, and Memory Manipulation comes from.

Attack Potency: Wall Level+ (Is on par with Shaggy, who beat up a group of bikers that were strong enough to hurt ghost robotic dinosaurs. Stronger than Velma, who toppled a giant robotic clown), Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups. {I'd probably change it to Wall Level until we can find some feat that's not a one-off movie outlier or a comic reference. I'd also remove the Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups part}.

Speed: {Should be SuperHuman}; FTL with Nanite Scooby Snacks {this part needs moved to Scooby Apocalypse}

Lifting Strength: Peak Human (Should be comparable to Shaggy), Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks and Transformations {Peak Human is fine. Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks needs moved to Scooby Apocalypse, Higher with Transformations/Power-Ups I'd just remove}.

Striking Strength: Wall Class+, Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks, as Yellow Lantern, and with Transformations/Power-Ups. {I'd change this to Wall Class, move Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks to Scooby Apocalypse, and remove the Yellow Lantern (Comic Feat) and Transformation/Power-Ups}.

Durability: Wall Level+ (Tanked several dynamite sticks), Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks, as Yellow Lantern, and with Transformations. {Does not list the feat on Shaggy's page which gave Shaggy Wall Level+ despite Scooby being there too. I'd replace the Tanked several dynamite sticks with the Shaggy durability feat. Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks needs moved to Scooby Apocalypse. Yellow Lantern and Transformations just needs removed}.

Stamina: High. Limitless with Robot Mode. {Limitless with Robot Mode needs moved to Scooby Apocalypse}.

Range: {Sword of Fate was from the Samurai movie only. Higher with Nanite Scooby Snacks needs moved to the Scooby Apocalypse page}.

Optional Equipment: Sword of Fate (Samurai Movie Only), Nanite Scooby Snacks {Needs moved to Scooby Apocalypse}, Not sure about Tome of Doom or Bio-Belt.

Daphne Blake

Powers/Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Martial Arts (comes from the Samurai Movie), and Non-Physical Interaction are fine.

Not sure about Acausality (Type 1)

Size Manipulation and able to breathe in space are from the Team-Up Comic and are both one-offs and not part of standard Daphne.

Attack Potency: Wall Level (Easily destroyed the same dragon robots Fred did) {This is a Team-Up comic reference, but I am fine with Wall Level}.

Speed: {Should be SuperHuman}

Lifting Strength: {Fine with Peak Human}

Striking Strength - Stamina {These are fine}

Range: Melee Range {Might want to make it Standard Melee Range}

Standard Equipment: Bio-Belt {What? I have no idea what this is, but it is most definitely not standard equipment}.

Fred Jones

Powers/Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Preparation, Trap Master and Marksmanship, and Non-Physical Interaction {These are fine}.

Not sure on Acausality (Type 1)

Size Manipulation and Self-Sustenance (Type 1) both come from the Team-Up comics and are one-offs and not standard Fred.

Attack Potency: Wall Level (Ripped off a Zombie's head, also ripped the head of a robot dragon of Scooby Size. Effortlessly beat up a crocodile) {I'm fine with the rating. The Zombie Head rip happened in the Zombie Island Movie. The Robot Dragon is from the Team-Up comic and would be a one-off and not standard. Not sure where the crocodile feat comes from}

Speed: {Should be SuperHuman}

Lifting Strength - Range: {These are Fine}

Standard Equipment: Bio-Belt, Flashlight {I'd give him a Flashlight. Have no idea what the bio-belt is, but it's definitely not standard}.

Velma Dinkley

Tier: 9-B, Higher as Velma Marvel {I'd remove the Higher as Velma Marvel since that's a Team-Up comic one-off and isn't standard}

Powers/Abilities: Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Genius Intelligence, Non-Physical Interaction {These I'm fine with}

I don't know where Acausality (Type 1) comes from.

I don't remember her having any Martial Arts skills.

Air Manipulation, Size Manipulation, and Self-Sustenance (Type 1) seem to all come from the Team-Up comic and are all one-off non-standard abilities.

Not sure where Resistance to Fire Manipulation comes from.

Attack Potency: Wall Level (Should be comparable to Daphne. Toppled a giant robotic clown), Higher as Velma Marvel. {Fine with the rating. The giant robotic clown feat is probably a comic feat, but I'm unsure. The Higher as Velma Marvel should be removed}.

Speed: {Should be SuperHuman}

Lifting Strength: {Fine}

Striking Strength / Durability: {I'd remove the Higher as Velma Marvel parts}

Stamina: {Fine}

Range: {I'd remove Higher with Air Manipulation}

Standard Equipment: Bio-Belt {No idea what this is...definitely not standard}.


Final Notes: I'd probably remove the Werewolf Form {Temporary}, Zoinksman {Certainly not Standard - I'd call it an alternate cartoon timeline}, Shaggy Marvel {Team-Up Comic, not standard}, and Yellow Lantern {Team-Up Comic, not standard} pics/tabs from Shaggy's cartoon profile. I'd remove the Yellow Lantern Scooby {Team-Up Comic, not standard} and Velma Marvel {Team-Up Comic, not standard} pics/tabs as well.

That's all for now Ant...
 
I think that all of your suggestions seem fine as far as I can tell. Is there something in particular that you are uncertain about?
 
I'd like to know where the Acausality (Type 1) comes from. I don't remember them dealing with time paradoxes...but then again, I haven't seen a lot of the newer stuff. If it's just the fact that they can survive being rewritten into a new, technologically updated series, I probably wouldn't give them Acausality.

I'd also like to know where the Fire, Ice, Empathic, and Memory Resistance comes from. I'd probably take those off unless we could get verification of them.

The Mind Manipulation (Hypnotic) Resistance is inconsistent Shaggy gets Hypnotized. That looks like it's from the actual cartoon series, which I would prioritize over one movie featuring resistance.

Do we want to just edit off anything that looks like a one-off that's from the movies or make a temporary section on the powers/abilities and list them out with the movie beside them: Fire Breath (Kiss Movie Only), Werewolf Transformation (Reluctant Werewolf Only) for example?

Is there a calc already avaliable for general head removal? Fred rips head off zombie. Feat happens about 55 seconds in. If not, I was thinking about asking Spino if he knows how to calc that.
 
The closest I found was breaking a neck...and I don't quite think that's the same. I'll go ahead and ask Spino.
 
So, I found the Spine-Rip Calc (Spino linked it to me). In the same video, it gives a force range for popping off the head, which fits perfectly. I copied the calc style, using the new forces listed and modified the length to be only the head Popping the Head off a Zombie. I put it on the calc eval page, so as soon as that gets approved, it looks like they'll be 9-C (Street Level) instead of 9-B (Wall Level). The 9-B was an assumption with no feat to back it up while this will be 9-C with a calculated feat.

Once this gets approved, do you want me to work on editing the profiles?

Alternatively, I could rework them here in individual posts and ask someone to apply the changes?
 
I replied, but had to activate the comments in the blog first. You should preferably do that yourself when you create it.
 
I think I'll draw the separate profiles up here after the calc gets approved, and then ask a staff member to apply them. {I've done literally no source editing and that looks complicated.} Would I ask an Admin or a Content Moderator?
 
 
Looks like the low-end was accepted for the head-pop. Will that make Fred Class 1 Lifting Strength? Since Daphne failed to pull the head off, I'll probably leave the rest of the gang a Peak Human.

I read NoGround's blog about the layouts. I used the Character Infobox to add an Infobox like he suggested, but I couldn't seem to add the Tier on there. Let me know if you prefer just the pic or the infobox, then I'll make a final draft and apply the changes.
 
I think that your new profiles seem fine with the exception that we shouldn't start to apply infoboxes for several months yet, so it is better if you use the standard format.

Class 1 and Peak Human lifting strengths is probably fine.
 
Okay. I'll change those back, then apply them. All I'll need to do then is go in and change the speed rating on some of the monsters that scale to the Scooby Gang.

You can probably close this thread then.

Thanks Ant.
 
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