Scream Revisions

[Random-Helper323]

Films/Ghostface:

Looking through the pages there are a few problems. First of all the Scream page summary refers to the town the events take place in as Springwood. Springwood is the town Nightmare on Elm Street takes place in. Scream and Scream 4 take place in Woodsboro. Scream 2 and 3 take place elsewhere.

Second, Ghostface and the Lakewood slasher running at people and stabbing them doesn't really seem like solid proof of peak human speed. In real life scenarios, people running at other people with knives usually stab them, even trained and armed police. That's why police get maimed and killed frequently by knives. This generally seems to not justify peak human speed.

Finally, Composite film Ghostface comes equipped with multiple knives and a bulletproof vest, a voice changer that imitates numerous voices, and is a decently large, intelligent, ambidextrous man. The problem is that in the films so far, there have been 7 people who have served as Ghostface, six of which were equipped with one or two knives, a voice changer that only had the Ghostface voice, and no bulletproof vest. In addition, four of them were small or medium build, and none were shown to be ambidextrous.

All the supposedly composited equipment comes from one incarnation of Ghostface, Roman Bridger from Scream 3, the only Ghostface whose voice changer can imitate multiple voices, the only Ghostface who demonstrably carries multiple knives, the strongest Ghostface both via size and age and via scaling (beats Scream 3 Sidney hand to hand whereas Mickey and Debbie both lost against Scream 2 Sidney), and the only Ghostface who ever wears a bulletproof vest. Also the only Ghostface to ever perform the entire crime spree alone.

This means the multiple knives, superior voice changer and bulletproof vest are far from standard Ghostface equipment, and it also means that composite Ghostface is basically just Roman anyway.

TL;DR: the Scream page needs Springwood changed to Woodsboro, peak human for running and stabbing doesn't seem solid, and I would suggest dividing Ghostface into two keys, one for standard Ghostface (possibly Billy Loomis, given that Billy Loomis is standard Ghostface according to most fans) with Ghostface's standard equipment, and one for Roman Bridger with all the same equipment as composite, since composite Ghostface is basically the same in terms of abilities and equipment as Roman Bridger. Arguably Jill Roberts could be used as a key as well due to being the one to succeed Roman and Billy. That might change with Scream 5 though.

TV Show/Lakewood Slasher:

I think the composite has some issues here as well, given that the two characters who actually operate as the slasher are Kieran and Piper, and meanwhile the feats that are used for the composite character are feats performed by a mystery person who wore the mask for about five minutes, whose feats left Kieran, the stronger and primary slasher, aghast at the strength of the mystery person, and who then proceeded to kill Kieran and vanish, with no planned reappearance or follow up of any kind. I'd argue the Lakewood Slasher is best listed as being Kieran, with the feats of the mystery killer not being factored since that person is far stronger than the slasher and never operates as the slasher.

TL;DR: the neck snapping feat is performed by someone who technically isn't the Lakewood Slasher, and peak human for running and stabbing someone still doesn't seem solid.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

I fully approve of this! Congrats for the excellent CRT, Random!

 

[Random-Helper323]

Thanks for the response and endorsement, Eliminator. I was worried this thread might be an annoyance for the staff rather than useful.

 

[Random-Helper323]

BUMP... How do we get more responses? I've never made a CRT before.

 

[Qawsedf234]

TL;DR: the Scream page needs Springwood changed to Woodsboro, peak human for running and stabbing doesn't seem solid, and I would suggest dividing Ghostface into two keys, one for standard Ghostface (possibly Billy Loomis, given that Billy Loomis is standard Ghostface according to most fans) with Ghostface's standard equipment, and one for Roman Bridger with all the same equipment as composite, since composite Ghostface is basically the same in terms of abilities and equipment as Roman Bridger. Arguably Jill Roberts could be used as a key as well due to being the one to succeed Roman and Billy.

Yeah I'm fine with this. Honestly we may just want to use Roman since he's like 95% of the good feats anyways for Ghostface

Lakewood Slasher:

Considering the Third person has a legitimate 9-B showing, I would suggest a second key for them. But if we don't want that then yeah, it should be Kieran.

Second, Ghostface and the Lakewood slasher running at people and stabbing them doesn't really seem like solid proof of peak human speed. In real life scenarios, people running at other people with knives usually stab them, even trained and armed police. That's why police get maimed and killed frequently by knives. This generally seems to not justify peak human speed.

To add to this, both Mythbusters and modern Police/FBI statistics mostly go with that if the person isn't ready for the assailant (as in the gun is holstered) anything less than 20 feet is more or less a guaranteed stab if the person isn't actively moving away at a quick speed. Stabbing someone isn't a peak human feat for the same reason punching someone isn't a peak human feat.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yeah, I linked the Tueller Drill for that. Thanks for the video link

I'm trying to recall Roman's best physical feats. I know Mickey has two decent ones, stabbing through a bathroom stall wall (with a good deal of effort) and smashing a car window. The latter is possible for a normal person though. You can smash a car window with any metal object with a hard point on it.

Even without any feats Roman scales above Mickey since he beat Sidney hand to hand while Mickey got beaten by her and needed to bring out a gun. Roman had already beaten Sidney senseless and was about to kill her barehanded when Kincaid interrupted. He also hit Kincaid with a chair hard enough to smash the chair. I don't currently recall any others.

Edit: I agree with the 9-B feat. And it also matches with the killer from the past breaking a guy's leg by walking on it and ramming a stick through someone's face. The original killer is clearly shown to be very strong. Whether it's Brandon James, Troy James, Emma's father or someone else entirely is unknown. It could warrant another key, but one could argue that person and the original killer are two separate people, and that technically that person isn't the Slasher.

Second Edit: just read the respect thread and did some thinking. Roman really does have some of the best feats. Punching Sarah so hard she smashed through a window, lifting a bookcase fast enough to hit Cotton with it hard enough to knock him flying, tanking a vase smashing on his head, overwhelming a large professional bodyguard AND a Los Angeles Police homicide detective, tanking falling down the stairs (it's obvious he was only pretending to be unconscious to lure Dewey downstairs), and knocking Dewey out with the handle of the knife by throwing it. I think it might be worth adding or at least looking into the smashing of the chair, slamming Tyson into glass cases hard enough to smash the glass, and throwing Tyson several feet over the balcony.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Do we need more responses or is this enough?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Its fine considering how relatively straightforward it is, along with the franchise not really being big enough on the wiki for more weigh ins.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay. Do any of Roman's feats like smashing a chair or throwing Tyson as far as he does warrant anything? And who should make the changes?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Do any of Roman's feats like smashing a chair or throwing Tyson as far as he does warrant anything?

Throwing Tyson supports Athletic Lifting strength. The other stuff he does, unless I'm forgetting something, is just 9-C

And who should make the changes?

You're allowed to. Just link the CRT URL as the reasoning for the changes

 

[Random-Helper323]

Got it. I'll need maybe an hour to do that right. Thanks.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I am concerned about the name of the page though. Since I'm basically suggesting changing composite pages to non-composite ones. That means changing the page names and the tags. Am I able to do that?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Done the page changes, but the page names still say they're composite. I don't think I can change that.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Also, the guns aren't exactly standard equipment for Ghostface, since he never uses a gun with the mask still on, never had the gun until stealing it (stole it from Dewey in Scream, from the detectives in Scream 2, from Kincaid in Scream 3, from Hoss and Perkins and later Dewey in Scream 4) from a police officer.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I can change the composite name later on today

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay. Thanks. What do you think of the guns?

 

[Qawsedf234]

They seems more like optional equipment than standard gear

 

[Random-Helper323]

Agreed. So how should they be listed? How do I list optional non-standard equipment in a page?

 

[Random-Helper323]

I noticed something else weird. The Lakewood Slasher is listed as Wall level with prep via rigging a car to explode and using a large saw device at some point. I'm not sure that really applies since the former is only meaningful in the form of explosives and the latter is just driving a vehicle. I have a friend who drives a huge truck. Is he wall to small building level? And he at least owns the truck.

 

[Qawsedf234]

No. Vehicles are only noteworthy if they're a common/important aspect of the character. Like the batmobile or transporter car.

For optional equipment you just list it after standard equipment.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Got it. I'll get that done soon. Technically the slasher only rigged those vehicles and never used them as weapons, so they might not belong there at all.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I fixed Ghostface, but whenever I edit the equipment section on the Lakewood Slasher it duplicates the Standard Equipment paragraph. It either has the optional equipment way too far beneath standard equipment or has two standard equipment sections, and I can't change it. I went with "miles to go from standard to Optional" because at least it seemed better than two optionals. I don't know what's causing it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I get rid of the spaces.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Thanks. What was I doing wrong?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Anytime there's spacing issues you have to use source editing. Since the visual editor can sometimes mess up in regards to empty lines.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I actually knew visual editor was a problem. I'm pretty sure I was using source editor. I'll make sure to double check in the future. Sorry for the trouble, and thanks for the help. I hope I wasn't too much trouble.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Question; Shouldn't each killer (or at least each duo, since they're comparable to each other) have their own key? They all have wildly different personalities.

There's also the intelligence. It says they're all knowledgeable on horror movies, but Mrs. Loomis actually never shows interest in them. None of her phone calls refer them, unlike Billy, Stu, Jill, or Charlie.

Basically, I'd like to suggest a bit more effort to separate them. Ghostface isn't just a single person after all, it's multiple different people with differing styles (such as how Billy stabs and Stu slashes).

I don't think they all need separate profiles, bit separating them into keys would be best. Somethings like;

Billy Loomis/Stu Macher (Scream 1) | Mickey Altieri/Debbie Loomis (Scream 2) | Roman Bridger (Scream 3) | Jill Roberts/Charlie Walker (Scream 4)

And maybe Vs. Debates should have to specify who's behind the mask?

 

[Qawsedf234]

We should have different keys, but, a lot of them are rather redundant. Since the Killers besides Roman have the same power set basically. Though they do have slightly different feats.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

Maybe just putting 'same as before' in the Powers and Abilities section would work, with Roman coming last with 'Same as before plus Voice Mimicry (Can alter his voice to sound like a selection of his targets), then listing their individual feats via keys (they're all 9-C still).

And Jill (maybe Billy too) should prooobably have Social Influencing? She was able to convince Charlie to kill with her.

 

[Random-Helper323]

We could do that. If we wanted to be accurate to the actual incarnations of Ghostface we could have a key for each killer or each film. I just thought that having 4 or 7 keys all listed as the same more or less would be a bit unnecessary and overwhelming. Roman is clearly different from the other killers after all, both via equipment and scaling. Regarding social influence, Roman has a bit of that, influencing Billy to carry out the first killing spree, and influencing Milton to let him in without Milton learning who he was.

 

[Propellus]

Shouldn't Charlie Walker be 9-B? I mean, He literally broke through a locked door as it would as it would require this amount of energy to do so. even though it did take time, but still.

And also, Debbie Loomis has survived being crushed by large bricks. That should be added to the durability statistic.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

The door feat seems legit, and Jill scales directly to Charlie, so that should apply to both.

However, those bricks were just set props. They were likely just foam or something similar.

 

[Propellus]

The door feat seems legit, and Jill scales directly to Charlie, so that should apply to both.

However, those bricks were just set props. They were likely just foam or something similar.

From the looks of it, it did seem like actual bricks and it even sounded like it, she was bleeding from those after she got out of them.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Shouldn't Charlie Walker be 9-B? I mean, He literally broke through a locked door as it would as it would require this amount of energy to do so. even though it did take time, but still.

He wouldn't scale to that calc. That calc is for a full door fragmentation like this or this.

From the looks of it, it did seem like actual bricks

Doesn't that happen at a college drama theater? Why would they have legitimate blocks of brick there?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Qawsedf is completely right on both counts. You can clearly see that the bricks are foam. They bounce, and Debbie stabs one and chips a corner off it. Blatantly foam. The other issue with the door feat is that Jill's door is an interior door, and a thin one at that. The blog clearly talks about solid doors that are all wood, exterior doors. Interior doors are usually two thin sheets of wood with a bit of cardboard or even nothing between them. Older interior doors would have at least some thickness to those sheets, but Jill's door is newer and is visibly not two solid sheets.

If anything I'd have to question why he took so long to break through it. I guess he deliberately took some time so Jill could believably hide from him or escape him. Breaking open interior doors by breaking the door jamb is very easy. Interior doors aren't designed to keep anything out. Even exterior doors are easy to break open unless they're reinforced or security doors. Most houses that lack security screen doors or security doors with metal door jambs have front and back doors that are easy to break open with a good kick. That's why many home owners choose to have security doors.

 

[ShockingPsychic]

I don't think this is a necro yet.

In Scream 4, the killer (whether it was Charlie or Jill is unknown) stabs one of the police officers through the skull, would this be considered the best feat performed Comp. Ghostface? I know crushing a skull is 9-B, idk about stabbing through one though.

 

[Propellus]

And BTW, that door feat needs a calculation.

 

[Qawsedf234]

I know crushing a skull is 9-B, idk about stabbing through one though.

Stabbing through skulls with a knife is a 9-C feat assuming realistic skull damage. Due to surface area stuff sharp weapons can deal far more damage with similar amounts of energy. It's why swords can cut someone in half or chop off limbs despite only generating something like 300-1000 joules on average.

And BTW, that door feat needs a calculation.

It's also only a 9-C feat. Though if we for sure knew the first door hit was a bunch if may be 9-B, but the other stuff is something you'd be capable of doing right now assuming okay leg strength. Door frames aren't that tough.

 

[Random-Helper323]

Jill's door is an interior door, and a thin one at that. The blog clearly talks about solid doors that are all wood, exterior doors. Interior doors are usually two thin sheets of wood with a bit of cardboard or even nothing between them.

Breaking open interior doors by breaking the door jamb is very easy. Interior doors aren't designed to keep anything out. Even exterior (front and back) doors are easy to break open unless they're reinforced or security doors. Most houses that lack security screen doors or security doors with metal door jambs have front and back doors that are easy to break open with a good kick.

The door feat is nothing any reasonably strong adult couldn't do.

 

[Random-Helper323]

The notable feats in Scream to consider are all 9-C, like stabbing through a car window, stabbing through a bathroom stall wall, overwhelming large bodyguards and police detectives, etc., but the films are meant to be grounded in reality, hence the feats being feats humans can perform.