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Sephiroth vs Vergil
- Thread starter Robo432343
- Start date
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Nonynho
Any/All- 9,265
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Devil May Cry has layers accepted to everything in Demonic Energy, which should include, if i'm not mistaken:
take a look at the Physiology page as well
what are the answers of the One-Winged-Angel?
Arkansalter2
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Every single resistance under the damn sun apparently.
Nonynho
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layered tho?
also, idk how to search this but i think DMC is 4d or 5d besides everything in Demon Physiology and a layer on that stuff i pointed out
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Layers are a thing I forgot...
Ugh, I haven't brought it up properly to the Hax Layer Evaluation Thread yet. I have something in mind, but I don't really know how it would go for now.
Spiritual Energy is accepted as 4D, though. It has some of the necessary hocus pocus, it trascends time and space, it gives birth to entire new worlds (explained to be whole timelines), the Lifestream contains all those worlds, and such. So at least there's that.
Not really voting for now, but at the very least I can provide info on what Sephiroth can do and all.
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@Theglassman12 is a staff member and he's the one who evaluate the layers on that thread.
As a both dmc player and final fantasy player, i vote vergil
Nonynho
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This layer thread counts, the only thing I'm aware of is that you gotta make a CRT to both get on this thread (which is now being updated by a moderator) and to put it on the verse page
Skillwise is very difficult to tell and both can use some magic tricks, I really can't say who's winning if this ain't a stomp due to Dimensional diff or layer diff
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Anyway, layers play a very important role here and I believe DMC has like 100+ by now... Did FF verse evaluated there layers yet?
Yeah but vergil has layer advantage and i don't think sephiroth can do anything against his sealing
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I despise hax layers so much.
Tarta's planning something for FFVII when it comes to hax layers in the future.
Tarta's planning something for FFVII when it comes to hax layers in the future.
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Same here but we can't do anything about it lol
Nonynho
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It's the coolest s*** ever when we see in every fighting art form but I understand why some would find it quite ass in a threat
Anyway, how many dimensions have both of them? Vergil's layers may not be useful for him due to being limited to only some abilities
And I remember something about FF being 5D, which is screwing Vergil very bad here if he ain't too
(Don't get me wrong tho, as some say here where I live, "between this side and this side, I'm cheering for the fight" and I really hope we can debate this)
Anyway, how many dimensions have both of them? Vergil's layers may not be useful for him due to being limited to only some abilities
...which I don't think we see him using very much
And I remember something about FF being 5D, which is screwing Vergil very bad here if he ain't too
(Don't get me wrong tho, as some say here where I live, "between this side and this side, I'm cheering for the fight" and I really hope we can debate this)
As far as im knowledgeable on verse, their max tiering is 2-A and none of them are 5-D, you can see dissidia keys which are only 2-A
So there's no dimensional difference here
Arkansalter2
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Hell, I despite battles which have a f*** ton of hax in general.
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Honestly I would've preferred if y'all waited a bit because DMC is light years behind from relevant updates. Same with FF from what I heard. Soo, ehh?
Yeah we should wait because dmc is still getting upgraded
FF also
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All of Sephiroth's attacks screw over the Spirit which are the mind, soul, emotions, memories and life of a living being. Depending on how much it can affect the opponent, the effects range from mere weakness and loss of consciousness, to Mako Poisoning, which is memory and identity, loss, crippling weakness, catatonia and outright death, to complete destruction of all those aspects of the individual.
This effect is achieved at a conceptual and informational level given that's how fundamentally Spiritual Energy works.
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Ah, crap. Well, we can just request the match to be deleted once the the upgrades come through. Or do you prefer to not do it altogether for now?
FFs upgrades seem to never end...
Seems we must wait until upgrades
After that we can debate about this
After that we can debate about this
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I don't think that's necessary. If upgrades happen. We can always ask for the match to be removed, and FF is a big series where each game needs to be tackled individually. I don't think whole series needs to be put on ice and be unusable when there's alot of characters that are up to date. 2-A doesn't have a lot of competition anyway, and there's other FF characters the DMC cast can fight
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So it's ok
Vergil can already resist sephiroth's spiritual and mind hax, the debatable thing is on sephiroth's concept type 1 because i don't know how it works. vergil can resist his name being changed which is his concept
But everything changes if vergil decides to seal sephiroth
Vergil can already resist sephiroth's spiritual and mind hax, the debatable thing is on sephiroth's concept type 1 because i don't know how it works. vergil can resist his name being changed which is his concept
But everything changes if vergil decides to seal sephiroth
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But Vergil's name change is only Type 2 right? That's not really gonna defend against Type 1
Yeah that's why im asking how sephiroth's concept works
but what can sephiroth do anything vergil's subjective reality or sealing? Vergil just needs to make another sephiroth or seals him
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Anyway, I'll bring some info on DMC. The verse has only one notable conceptual aspect which are Names that represent a being's true existence and power combined. This should logically scale to their basic energy system, though that hasn't been argued yet. Currently, it's classified as Type 2 on the wiki but the abilities and resistances themselves are lowballed at 50+ layers.
So... yeah. If Seph's abilities fundamentally operate on a conceptual scale, as you said, then this is a stomp in his favor. I doubt basic layers like these would hold up against full-on abstractions.
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Sephiroth has resistance to both of those
Didn't see on his profile
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Sephiroth's Spiritual Energy Level as Mastered, meaning he gains all resistances of the previous levels. Sealing Resistance is under Lv 2, intermediate.
Subjective Reality comes from the Arrival tab under the "Ivalice" section
Still doesn't matter because of the layer difference
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So really it just comes down to who strikes first. Demonic Energy has hax layers, but Vergil can't deal with the fundamental levels of Spiritual Energy.
Yeah this is really depends on who attacks first
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Wait, weren't names Type 1? I don't remember the exact explanation, but they had at some point that classification. Or they didn't? I was sure DMC had Type 1 CM.
Vergil's layers do give him a key advantage though. From what I understand, until your own layers are approved you are baseline, correct?
FFVII does have something in that regard that I have to eventually bring up in the layer thread. Essentially, Spiritual Energy has a "weight", for the lack of a better word, which increases the greater amount of Spiritual Energy or the power of the individual. No matter how many resistances an individual has, if the weight is too much, the resistances are crushed and the negative effects of Spiritual Energy will be inflicted. Hence why people who can bathe in Spiritual Energy are suddenly afflicted with Mako Poisoning and mutations in places with too large concentrations. Sephiroth can endure and affect the Lifestream itself, which has the weight of every Spirit of every living being that has existed since life began on the Planet, which was retconned in Remake to be all the life that has existed in every universe of the multiverse. But I still have to present the ccase to see how valid this is.
I worked on an updated version of the Spiritual Energy Manipulation which hopefully will make a better work in explaining itself. I will update Sephiroth's page accordingly. There isn't new content or buffs or anything, just things to try to explain things better.
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I'm working on a metaphysical thread in the future to address this notion in general. It should be type 1 but removed in the past for reasons.
From what I heard, that seems to be the case soo far. But I've a question which is: Does the abstract nature of hax and resistance of a character means anything to layers like such regardless how much quantity it has?
I'm not really fimiliar with this new standards of "layers" the wiki has soo asking for my own knowledge here.
I think some form of scaling would be necessary to properly quantify that. Not sure how the "weight" of every spirit would be measured in a concrete way but it’s definitely an interesting concept. Anyways, best of luck with your layer thread
Nonynho
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Yes
And now that's through a CRT, not on the thread anymore
Nonynho
Any/All- 9,265
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Yes
Like if you can resist 1 second of time stop or 99999, it doesn't matter if I have layered TS.
The same on the other way around, too (that was only my try to get it in a comprehensible way, if I failed, there's a page explaining that on the wiki, I believe)
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Ah, alright. But it was Type 1 at some point then? Good to know that I am not crazy.
I'm not really sure myself. It's one of the things I want to ask as well by putting the topic on the table properly. To be honest, Spiritual Energy is the very first time I actually tackled metaphysical powers and abilities of a verse, which was something I kept my distance from before because it seemed too complex. Getting it properly done has been a pretty bumpy ride and there's still a lot of things to fix.
Really wish I could tell you, but I haven't checked the topic of layers myself yet. I'll try to make the topic as soon as possible and let you know depending on how it goes.
Yeah, I see what you mean. I do have something in that regard (characters with resistances working at some point, but later the resistances are overpowered and all that). I guess it's a matter to see if the whole deal with the Lifestream falls into simple potency or actually would work as layers. It's more blurry than it seems at first, imo. So I'll have to find out once a proper CRT is made and the issue is discussed.I think some form of scaling would be necessary to properly quantify that. Not sure how the "weight" of every spirit would be measured in a concrete way but it’s definitely an interesting concept. Anyways, best of luck with your layer thread
And, thanks, dude. Let's hope it works out.
Ah, got it. Good to know, thanks.
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I'd be waiting for that keenly.
