Hax Layer Evaluation Thread

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The purpose of this thread is to evaluate which verses do and do not qualify for layered hax under the newly codified standards, much like Glass did for type 5 acausality not too long ago. Given the massive amount of ground that needs to be covered, this will be a somewhat disorganized thread wherein people will bring up certain verses with layered hax and make a case for or against them keeping those layers. Obviously, I'll try to do my part to cover as many verses as I personally can, but I'm just one person with limited time and knowledge, so I hope other people will take initiative here and propose verses themselves.

Verses/Characters in Need of Evaluation

• Devil May Cry
• Xenoblade Chronicles

Verses/Characters that Keep Their Layers

• Anima: Beyond Fantasy (16 layers for magic)
• Bastard!! (5-6 layers for magic)
• Blazblue (Countlessly above Infinite layers for Phenomena Intervention)
• Castlevania (5 layers for sealing/power null, 3 for timestop, and layered hax for Dracula's magic)
• Choi Yoon-seok (unspecified on how many layers)
• Danny Phantom (5 layers mind/empathic hax)
• Destiny (Paracasual powers, unspecified on the amount of layers)
• Dragon Ball Heroes (7 layers for Time Power)
• Dungeons & Dragons (50-94 layers)
• Epic Battle Fantasy (1 layer for Existence erasure)
• Ergenverse (10 layers per cultivation realm, with each dimension having their own set of layers)
• God of War (5 layers for Soul Hax in the verse)
• Guilty Gear (12 layers for Magic)
• Hunter X Hunter (1 layer for Nen)
• My Little Pony (1 Layer for madness hax)
• Nasuverse (Has layered hax for Authority, though exact number of layers is unspecified)
• Nurarihyon no Mago (10 Layers for Fear hax)
• One Piece (5-7 layers of Haki)
• Overlord (1 layer time stop and death hax and staff)
• Sabrina Spellman (1 layer power null)
• Sage Monarch (Infinite layers for mindhax, unquantifiable layers for chaos hax)
• Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken (1 layer for mindhax and law hax)
• Touhou Project (9 layers for spirit/mindhax, 2 for time manipulation, 6 for probability/fate hax)
• Twin Star Exorcist (4 layers for spatial hax)
• Warhammer 40K (1 layer mindhax/power null/telepathy)
• Yu-Gi-Oh! (1 layer for evilswarm virus)

Verses/Characters that Lose Their Layers

• Arifureta (Loses some of the 28 layers)
• Lobotomy Corporation/Project Moon
• Low Dimensional Game (Loses the infinite layers)
• Nasuverse (Loses infinite layers)
• Kingdom Hearts (loses the 27 layers from Chain of Memories)

 

[ImmortalDread]

I am aware, you are “knowledgeable”, (although the topic ain't that complicated), but why would you have privilege to accept the reasoning or reject it?

 

[Brogeefrong]

Gotta add dbh here

 

[Quantu]

??? DBH doesn't even have a layers blog or consensus among supporters yet

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I am aware, you are “knowledgeable”, (although the topic ain't that complicated), but why would you have privilege to accept the reasoning or reject it?

I'd simply call in staff to evaluate verses as they come up. However, given that most verses don't index their layers, I would imagine it's not necessary for me to be staff seeing as no content on the profiles themselves would be changing.

Gotta add dbh here

Could you be more specific on which hax are claimed to be layered?

 

[ImmortalDread]

This is going to be a messed-up thread.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

??? DBH doesn't even have a layers blog or consensus among supporters yet

Not necessary; If verse supporters claim a verse has layered hax, as I've seen DBH supporters do, then that should be scrutinized. It's their own fault for claiming hax layers despite not having a blog on them yet tbh

 

[Phoenks]

I'd like Arifureta's 28 layers to be evaluated.

 

[Everything12]

Here's the short of it, if it's actually based on piercing resistance it's probably okay. If it's power or potency based, probably not.

 

[Eseseso]

Blazblue's Infinite Layers should probably be looked at.

Nothing against the verse, but any verse with literally infinite layers should at least be reviewed to see if it fits the new standards.

 

[Arceus0x]

One Piece layers maybe?
I remember them having some crazy levels for Haki n stuff. Unsure about this though.

 

[ImmortalDread]

the layers is countlessly above infinitely above baseline*, not only infinite layers.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

I'd like Arifureta's 28 layers to be evaluated.

I'll take a look shortly, assuming it isn't too long of a read.

Blazblue's Infinite Layers should probably be looked at.

Nothing against the verse, but any verse with literally infinite layers should at least be reviewed to see if it fits the new standards.

Been discussing it with Glass, there are some parts of it that I need to look at more closely though.

One Piece layers maybe?
I remember them having some crazy levels for Haki n stuff. Unsure about this though.

Is there a post where someone says where the layers come from? I'll add it to the list, but I can't evaluate what I can't see.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Been discussing it with Glass, there are some parts of it that I need to look at more closely though.

Discuss it here, this is the point of your thread.

 

[Everything12]

Before the scaling itself there is certain information that need to first be established:

Divine Edict is really powerful spirit magic with a mechanic that make it stronger when the user uses their full name[1] compared with the shortened version of their name, this difference in power is show to be significant enough [2] to overcome people able to resist the version with the shortened name, so Shortened Divine Edict < Full Divine Edict.

Between ancient magic exist evolution magic which significantly increase the power of things multiplying their strength[3], specifically weak evolution magic[4] double the potency[5] of something[6], normal evolution magic[7] that anyone can use[8] triple[9] the power[10] of things[2], and can increase[11] it fivefold[12], can increase the level of skills several times[13][14] multiplying their effects[15], evolution magic ability[7] affect[16] anything[2] and[17] everything[4] without distinction[6] because of its control[12] of information[18]. Does this include feats of things that would resist? So based on that Normal Divine Edict < Evolved Divine Edict.

So based on that previous information the scaling for Divine Edict go like this:

Limit Break Users/Kouki Resistance (Limit Break do damage to the soul, so those that can use Limit Break will get their soul permanently damaged if their soul isn't strong enough[19]. Kouki is someone able to use Limit Break without problem) < Kouki Overload Resistance (Overload is the superior version of Limit Break that put a greater burden in the user[20]) < Eri/Apostles Dark Magic (Is an inferior version[21] of spirit magic, and people who can resist it[22] can't resist[23] spirit magic[24]. Additionally she could affect with her magic Kouki soul) Getting somewhere here < Normal Spirit Magic (spirit magic resist[25] dark magic) < Eddy Divine Edict (Paladins special magic[23] is superior[26] to other Atavists, and Divine Edict is a specially powerful[1] spirit magic that can affect[12] people who resist spirit magic[27]) Looks promosing < Eddy Maker Divine Edict < Apostleified Eddy Divine Edict (apostleification boost the strength of the user magic[12] [likely with evolution magic since it's done by Ehit himself] and the replicas of holy artifacts that they wield futher strengthen their magic) < Apostleified Eddy Maker Divine Edict[12] < Laus Barn Spirit Magic (Laus, even in a half dead state, can supress[26] the spirit magic of those apostleified Relevance?) < Zero Alva Divine Edict (Is needed the combined effort[25] of most Liberators to face him) < Zero Alvaheit Divine Edict < Zero Alva Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Zero Alvaheit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Alva Divine Edict (Because of the technique that turn faith in power his current power is conceptually far above[28][29] than his Zero version Adding Conceptual doesnt change anything) < Current Alvaheit Divine Edict < Current Alva Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Alvaheit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Zero Ehit Divine Edict (Ehit is conceptually superior to Alva and his Divine Edict[30] can't be resisted by those that resist Alvaheit Divine Edict) < Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Zero Ehit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Vol 6 Laus Barn Spirit Magic (By giving his all he was able to resist[12] Ehit Divine Edict) < Zero Ehitorujue Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Ehit Divine Edict < Current Ehitorujue Divine Edict < Current Ehit Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Current Ehitorujue Divine Edict with Evolution Magic < Soul Shell (Resist[31] Ehitorujue Divine Edict) < Yue Divine Edict (Is far above[32] Ehitorujue and can affect those that resist[33] Ehitorujue Divine Edict and with Soul Shell) < Post-Shadow Dragon Arc Yue Divine Edict (Her existence is conceptually stronger[34] than before do to dragon gods conception, and the more time pass the stronger her existence will become because of the conception)

So it looks like their is some relevant stuff, so their does seem to exist some layers, but some of it does look invalid, and some of it doesn't give explanation.

 

[Eseseso]

So it looks like their is some relevant stuff, so their does seem to exist some layers, but some of it does look invalid, and some of it doesn't give explanation.

What is this?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Discuss it here, this is the point of your thread.

Give it a sec Dread, the damn thread hasn't even been open for 30 minutes.

 

[Everything12]

A brief look at Arifureta's layers.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Give it a sec Dread, the damn thread hasn't even been open for 30 minutes.

Yes, I am focused on ensuring transparency in the evaluation process. Discussing it privately may inadvertently encourage biased assessments, especially given your role as the OP, who aims to assess all entries impartially.

 

[Eseseso]

Oh, Dungeons and Dragons also has a lot of layers (up to like mid-20's, maybe 30), so they should also be looked at.

@Mr._Bambu would know more.

 

[Deceived3596]

Is there a post where someone says where the layers come from? I'll add it to the list, but I can't evaluate what I can't see.

One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling

First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency. Scaling Methods of Buso A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to)...

vsbattles.com

I would also recommend contacting @KingTempest and @Kachon123 for further context since both are the biggest contributors to One Piece's layer scaling.

 

[ImmortalDread]

I would also recommend contacting @KingTempest and @Kachon123 for further context since both are the biggest contributors to One Piece's layer scaling.

@KingTempest @Kachon123

 

[Kachon123]

@KingTempest @Kachon123

What further context do you want

 

[Planck69]

God of War has layers already detailed on its magic blog as far as mind/soul/probability/memory/concept goes. It was accepted here.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Following. This should have been a staff thread though with each verse being called one at a time or something. Well Thread Mods please be mindful of this.

 

[Deceived3596]

already detailed on its magic blog

Broken link

 

[ImmortalDread]

God of War has layers already detailed on its magic blog as far as mind/soul/probability/memory/concept goes. It was accepted here.

Was it before the new layers thread or before? This thread is aiming to evaluate those blogs that should follow the new “standards”.

 

[Kachon123]

The purpose of this thread is to evaluate which verses do and do not qualify for layered hax under the newly codified standards

Link where these new standards are listed.

 

[Planck69]

Broken link

Noted. Fixed that.

Also, this really should've been a staff thread or something.

 

[Planck69]

Was it before the new layers thread or before? This thread is aiming to evaluate those blogs that should follow the new “standards”.

.....The thread was posted on Tuesday. And one look at the page can show that it's in regards to new standards.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Also, this really should've been a staff thread or something.

Not sure. @Theglassman12's thread from Aca type 5 list went smoothly without moving it to staff thread.

 

[ImmortalDread]

.....The thread was posted on Tuesday. And one look at the page can show that it's in regards to new standards.

I was confirming, not contesting.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yes, I am focused on ensuring transparency in the evaluation process. Discussing it privately may inadvertently encourage biased assessments, especially given your role as the OP, who aims to assess all entries impartially.

Glass will comment here shortly (I hope), at which time I'll evaluate it to the best of my ability.

One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling

First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency. Scaling Methods of Buso A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to)...

vsbattles.com

I would also recommend contacting @KingTempest and @Kachon123 for further context since both are the biggest contributors to One Piece's layer scaling.

Thank you.

Following. This should have been a staff thread though with each verse being called one at a time or something. Well Thread Mods please be mindful of this.

Yeah I'm realizing that now, didn't think this thread would get like 20 people posting within an hour. That's my bad.

 

[Everything12]

Hax

Hax is a catch-all term for abilities that can be used to ignore/bypass one or more of a target's statistics, rendering them irrelevant. The most common hax are the ones that ignore durability, and their scale/potency are unrelated to their users' AP & Tier, however, they can be measured with...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Layering is the ability to break through resistances to one's ability/hax. Successfully using an ability against a resistant character means that the ability is "layered." Further, resisting a layered ability is an indication of layered resistance, so on and so forth. An ability becoming stronger does not automatically mean it is layered unless it is shown to overcome a resistance. Crucially this is not the same as resistance negation, against which layering is irrelevant.

Moreover, layering should not be thought of as applying to abilities which intuitively can be overcome with magnitude, such as heat resistance or analytical prediction. For instance, it is not layered fire manipulation to burn someone with a heat source hotter than they can withstand.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Link where these new standards are listed.

Here.

 

[Dereck03]

Also, this really should've been a staff thread or something.

No, just take a look at Glass Acausality review thread, there's no need to do so.


Edit, perhaps with the OP not being a staff then it may be appropiate.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Yeah I'm realizing that now, didn't think this thread would get like 20 people posting within an hour. That's my bad.

It's okay engagement might be good as long as it doesn't lead to derailment. Just everyone be careful of your posts and act appropriately. Keep up the good work Fuji!

 

[Kachon123]

One Piece is fine then. There was no need to mention me or KT. Just read the thread.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

So it looks like their is some relevant stuff, so their does seem to exist some layers, but some of it does look invalid, and some of it doesn't give explanation.

Having glanced over this, yeah this is kind of a clusterfuck. Some of it seems alright, but a lot of it just doesn't elaborate at all. Are there any Arifureta supporters who could help clarify this?

One Piece: Busoshoku Haki Potency and Buso Layers Scaling

First things first we have a clear heirarchy of Haki Potencies in the series. These will be the mechanics for finding out their potency. Scaling Methods of Buso A devil fruit power from a Haki user failing to work on another Haki user means the other Haki user is relative to (or superior to)...

vsbattles.com

I would also recommend contacting @KingTempest and @Kachon123 for further context since both are the biggest contributors to One Piece's layer scaling.

The majority of this seems to be based on "(x)'s haki is better/stronger than (y )'s", or characters exchanging physical blows, which wouldn't count at all. Haven't seen any examples of resistances getting bypassed, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Kachon123]

Haven't seen any examples of resistances getting bypassed, unless I'm missing something.

You are.

1. Garp bypassing Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force via Haki
2. Rayleigh bypassing Luffy's resistance to Blunt Force via Haki
3. Law bypassing Tashigi's Haki's resistance to Spatial Manipulation via his own superior Haki
4. Vergo's Haki being stated to be strong enough to resist Law's Spatial Manipulation, but then that resistance being bypassed by Law's Haki

For reference, Half of these are in the thread that you claim they aren't. Would you like more?