Shaggy vs. Sans (again)

[DMB_1]

SInce shaggy has been upgraded and has new hax, it shouldn't be a stomp anymore.

Speed equalized

Sans: 0

Shaggy Rogers (Composite): 0

Inconclusive: 0

 

[DMB_1]

bump

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Sans wins via higher battle intellect, teleportation and Danmaku.

While Composite Shaggy is pretty powerful, he is very gullible, and a short, fat skeleton that cracks jokes and drinks ketchup wouldn't be a guy that would be considered too much of a threat to him. By the time Shaggy realises what a powerful enemy he is facing, it will be much too late. Sans teleports behind him, and unleashes his first attack (in the game) before Shaggy has time to do anything.

Reasons I might overturn this vote (cause I don't know much about these characters):

-If Shaggy normally leads with Reality Warping, cause Sans has no answer to that.

-If his durability is enough for him to take this first attack, cause Karma won't work on such a pure hearted (possible drug addict) detecive.

-If Shaggy's gymnastic ability is enough for him to avoid this first attack, and others that Sans could throw at him.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Higher intellect won't really be a good answer when Shaggy have the knowledge of Odi

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

-it is unkown if he starts with it, because hes character drasticaly varies, and is rarely in a combat mentality.

-karma affects others equaly, it is not actual karma. But yes, shaggy should be able to survive a few seconds of contact.

-gymnastics alone arent, but toon force might allow him to dodge.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

And shaggy would find sans terrifying on his own, trust me

 

[CursedGentleman]

btw, no one never told me if forcefield creation would do something about his attacks.

Shaggy also can read minds, so I think that would help.

Sealing is also a thing on Shaggy profile.

He can also use summoning to make Sans attack the other human.

Shaggy also has size manipulation that makes him small as in smaller than an ant, that could also give Shaggy an Edge.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

-it is unkown if he starts with it, because hes character drasticaly varies, and is rarely in a combat mentality.
-karma affects others equaly, it is not actual karma. But yes, shaggy should be able to survive a few seconds of contact.

-gymnastics alone arent, but toon force might allow him to dodge.

-And that's already another mark against Shaggy, he rarely goes combative early in the piece, whereas as any Undertale Genocide run player/keyboard breaker knows, Sans does not hold back.

-Not hindu karma, Undertale Karma, the kind of poison-esque thing that Sans uses to give his attacks a buff. It is so powerful agaisnt Chara because of her LV, and is scaled up through the sins of a person. While it is one of Sans's most major powers, it doesn't affect everyone equally.

-Toon Force? I read through his entire profile, Shaggy does not have Toon Force. He is a Reality Warper, though, maybe you got them mixed up. He has never used Reality Warping to dodge incoming projectiles before, to my knowledge.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

And shaggy would find sans terrifying on his own, trust me

Would he? Shaggy normally deals with people in masks, and Sans' puffa jacket, track pants, slippers, and gloves hide most of his bones, only revealing his skull, which looks more disturbingly like an albino person than it should. It would probably take Shaggy a while to notice his foot-bones. And because, based on my knowledge of the Scooby-Doo series, the gang deals mainly in the real world. Assuming Sans is a walking skeleton would not be the first thing that he would probably assume. Although Shaggy is a coward, unless you know that he is a skeleton, Sans is the opposite of terrifying.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Shaggy and Scooby actually have a lot of knowledge in monsters, he dealt with them a lot in the movies and the games.

Shaggy and the reluctant werewolf, he dealt with Dracula, was a werewolf himself, dealt with all the "classic" monsters.

Scooby Doo and the Ghouls School: He was the PE teacher of the children of the classic monsters.

Scooby Doo and the Goblin King, they need to save the world from a dude who got the power of the fairies and was going to steal the goblin staff so he could dominate the world.

Scooby Doo and the 13 ghosts, Shaggy, Scooby and Daphne with the help of Flim Flam and Vincent Van Ghoul had to save the world from the most dangerous ghosts in the world.

Thats all that came into my mind right now.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

btw, no one never told me if forcefield creation would do something about his attacks.
Shaggy also can read minds, so I think that would help.

Sealing is also a thing on Shaggy profile.

He can also use summoning to make Sans attack the other human.

Shaggy also has size manipulation that makes him small as in smaller than an ant, that could also give Shaggy an Edge.

1. Yes it would help. (a spear could deflect Undyne's attacks, so Sans' can probably be similarly shielded against) But unless he can form a shield around his entire body, Sans' teleportation could nullify it.

2. How potent is Shaggy's mind-reading? Has he ever used it to predict the movement of his opponents before they do it?

3. I've got no response to this. Example of Shaggy's sealing ability, please, to see if it would work against Sans.

4. Is Shaggy the type of combatant to throw other people into the line of fire, as human sacrifices, to allow him time to make his move?

5. Doesn't help when Sans can literally flood the entire area with bones and Gaster Blasters through Danmanku, no matter what size Shaggy is, Sans can probably hit him via spray and pray. (Yes he can flood the ENTIRE area. The Get Dunked O attack).

 

[CursedGentleman]

1 Yeah, he can, he should be able to do it since his forcefield creation is the same from the green lanterns (Since he is a yellow lantern)

2 He can hear thoughts passively iirc, he was talking with Scooby, Scooby thought in something, and Shaggy answered him as if he had speaken.

3 Shaggy picks his Toom of Doom and suck Sans on it.

4 Shaggy more to act as a distraction (He did summon the dude to to fight the Headless Horseman as he ran away.), and is not like the dude is real, is just a summon.

And about the Reality warp, is kinda of an unknown factor, since he didnt use it too much, the only things that he did was make a sandwich come to him and make a lifeless armor cut his sandwich for him... And he may have temporarily created a world in which there was no more Mystery Inc.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Shaggy... a Yellow Lantern... my brain just melted. Thanks for the info, CursedGentleman, that really helped.

While the Tome of Doom is powerful, thepages that Shaggy has only allow it to work on Ghosts, Shadows, Poltergeists, Mummies, Dust Devils, Zombies and Fire Ghosts. Sans is none of the above.

Thoughts hearing isn't really going to help Shaggy here as that won't help him predict Sans' movements.

If he is open to using the Magic Cards, that opens the playing field up as Sans has never fought multiple opponents at once.

The shield. Oh, the shield. How strong are Green Lantern's shields. Checking... oh dear. Very. By the looks of it, if Shaggy can get one up, Sans is in trouble.

 

[CursedGentleman]

About the shield, just try to not compare them to the ones from the pre crisis or post crisis or new 52, since the universe in which Shaggy is a yellow lantern is not the same one.

 

[DMB_1]

Sans ain't getting past energy barriers.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

My vote is still Sans.

Shaggy's Magic Cards are cool and all (even though I can't find anything about them) and his shield is powerful, but Sans's Danmanku pretty much nails all of that. No matter how many things Shaggy summons, they will just step right into a hail of bones. And the Yellow Lantern shield, while powerful, will only be able to feed of Shaggy's fear. And while he may be scared of Sans' if he's using the shield, that means that he is standing and fighting, so he's not completely scared. And the shield will eventually get worn down. The Reality Warping, there is no concrete evidence of Shaggy using that in a combat situation, so it is getting counted as inapplicable. And Sans' teleportation kind of nails any sort of attack that Shaggy can throw, as he can just teleport out of range. (Unless Shaggy uses Zoinksman, in which case, Sans dodges until the mech runs out of ammunition, and continues pounding away at the mech, which will not have the Yellow Lantern shield as Shaggy has never been able to use them simultaniously) And, the argument that Shaggy is as smart as Sans due to Knowledge of Odin, not battle smart, is my answer. Combat intelligance and tactical abilty comes with experiance, and Shaggy never shows any.

I'm sorry. I want Shaggy to win, I desperately do. But I can't see it happening.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Never saw someone fighting desesparetly? Thats kinda of fighting with fear, I mean, is the reason why the yellow ring abandoned Sinestro for Shaggy, because he was the "Biggest source of fear in the universe" (Ring words, not mine), there is no proof that the shield will worn down.

I agree with Reality warp not being useful here, as he never shown it in attacks (Since it IS a kids cartoon and all)

Shaggy never used Zoinksman and Yellow lantern at the same time because of the two of them being used on different incarnations, so thats pretty much invalid.

I never said that Shaggy is smart as Sans, I just said that he had Odin Knowledge, isnt Odin pretty combat savvy tho?

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

I just found the Shield stats, they appear to give the Lanterns Solar System level durability. While that's great and all, they have limited charge. Sans can just keep avoiding and wasting their charge... for 24 hours? Doubtful. And the charge time appears to remain the same across all universes, so I think it's ok to use.

Shaggy can outlast Sans with the Power Ring.

And while that durability stat isn't for the universe that Shaggy is in, he is the "Biggest source of fear in the universe" so he should be able to create something preety powerful.

 

[DMB_1]

Sans has 8-C attacks. I don't know how far he's into 8-C, but since he isn't Building level+, only building level, I'm going to assume he's around 1 ton or so.├╣

Shaggy is 2.5 KILOtons. To put that into a comparison, Shaggy is over 2000 times stronger than Sans, and that's not counting power-ups and that his barriers would most likely be superior to his standard durability.

So no, Sans ain't getting past energy barriers with just "danmaku".

 

[CursedGentleman]

Crimson, the yellow ring that this wikia uses isnt the same as the ones Shaggy has, due to being different universes.

But yes, Shaggy can outlast Sans.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Just worked through it, DMB. Thanks for the push.

 

[Crimson_Azoth]

Cursed, mate, I checked multiple ring charge times across multiple DC incarnations, and it never changes from 24 hours, so I figured that it was safe to use.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Crimson, I was talking about the durability

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

- No, by sba he is in combative mentality.

-No, that is fanon and not accepted.

-I mean, toon force is reality warping, but yes, he does things that pretty much coincide with it.

 

[CursedGentleman]

Shaggy is getting downgraded to 8-C again, Ant dont want to powerscale amped Shaggy, Scooby and Velma to Flash.