• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Shockwave formula: Time to put some limits

DontTalkDT said:
Actually the nuke based explosion formula is for calcing shockwaves.
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Wouldn't it depend on well, the strength of the shockwave, though?

For example, if we see a shockwave go out far but not significantly damage anything close to it, and we calc it with that method, is that taken into account?
 
Dargoo_Faust said:
Ah, I see. Thanks for the clarification.

Wouldn't it depend on well, the strength of the shockwave, though?

For example, if we see a shockwave go out far but not significantly damage anything close to it, and we calc it with that method, is that taken into account?
Click to expand...
It needs to be a shockwave that does significant damage (that is most likely lethal), yes. Or specifically, it needs to be the radius of the shockwave in which it is that lethal, as shockwaves of course gradually get weaker.
Technically one could take another formula for just widespread destruction from the page of the calculator and IIRC the source included a scaling law one could use for even more pressure values... just that I can't find where anymore...
 
DontTalkDT said:
Or specifically, it needs to be the radius of the shockwave in which it is that lethal, as shockwaves of course gradually get weaker.
Click to expand...
Well, that's certainly interesting. What kind of physical destruction would we expect to see at the lethal range? Broken windows, shattered stone, etc?

(EDIT): It seems like a common misconception for this formula is just that it's the distance the visible shockwave goes out, not the distance from which we see damage.
 
Dargoo_Faust said:
Well, that's certainly interesting. What kind of physical destruction would we expect to see at the lethal range? Broken windows, shattered stone, etc?

(EDIT): It seems like a common misconception for this formula is just that it's the distance the visible shockwave goes out, not the distance from which we see damage.
Click to expand...
Probably. Explosions in fiction are often not very realistic and have a cleanly defined border were they just end.
Usually it's ok to assume that a normal human would die within that border. Alternatively I think that the lethal range of the shockwave is at least bigger than the fireball (or similar) if such a thing exists.

But yeah, for more realistic explosion in fiction one might has to put some thought into it.
 
Well, now that my confusion with DontTalk's evaluation is solved, we can probably start compiling calcs that need to be updated. The list Damage presented only includes calcs that had that exact text for the formula, but not every calc that used it (many of them abbreviate it in my experience).
 
Dargoo_Faust said:
Well, now that my confusion with DontTalk's evaluation is solved, we can probably start compiling calcs that need to be updated. The list Damage presented only includes calcs that had that exact text for the formula, but not every calc that used it (many of them abbreviate it in my experience).
Click to expand...
Updated how exactly? And would it only include calcs that use this formula (The formula in the OP) as a whole?

EDIT: NVM, I think I got it. Guess only the calcs using this new formula get affected.
 
Last edited:
So, to apply this formula when calculating an explosion, there must not only be a notable shockwave, but said visible shockwave must also evidently damage something?
 
Imaginym said:
So, to apply this formula when calculating an explosion, there must not only be a notable shockwave, but said visible shockwave must also evidently damage something?
Click to expand...
Echoing this question, are we not allowed to use this formula outright? or are there certain criterion that must be met in order to apply the formula?
 
Hmm question, as for calculating explosions that aren't air blast based or ones that happen on ground how would we calc it?
 
Like for example, Air Burst doesn't quite fit for a feat I had in mind.



What method would we use for non nuclear explosions for fire based explosions that happen on ground and into the air?
 
The formula for calc'ing ground-based explosions (Non-nuclear stuff or fire-based explosions etc.) is on the Explosion Yield Calculations page here.
 
Hmmm so question out of curiosity, a calc in question relies a lot on the NTF method. But Air Blast doesn't work in this circumstance, and neither does ground explosion work.



How would The following calc work? NTF doesn't work, and neither does Air Blast work so what formula works?
 
Still having some issues rereading a calc, but since the thread seems to be settled would you mind taking this discussion to my wall? I've still got some questions regarding a certain calc.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
I'll perform the downgrades in the verses I know, hopefully we get something to quantify.
Click to expand...
Ye, pretty much, unless someone somewhere finds a better formula to calc such shockwaves which don't inherently act like explosions, you're gonna have to find better feats instead.

Try the boulder feats, he easily smashes a car in one of those feats.
 
Wondering if air scattering by 1/2 m v^2 where m is the mass of the air will be too much a lowball.
 
But what if it happens in outer space? What would we have to do?
 
Migue79 said:
But what if it happens in outer space? What would we have to do?
Click to expand...
Talk about some fictional shockwaves sending across the space as if it happens on Eart surface but on a MUCH larger scale but not quite on the explosion range?

Now I think about it: do we have the starquake formula? How applicable is that?
 
Jasonsith said:
Talk about some fictional shockwaves sending across the space as if it happens on Eart surface but on a MUCH larger scale but not quite on the explosion range?

Now I think about it: do we have the starquake formula? How applicable is that?
Click to expand...
IDK, I never used it for an explosion happening in outer space
 
Jasonsith said:
Now I think about it: do we have the starquake formula? How applicable is that?
Click to expand...
unsure on general star quakes, but for Sunquakes i found this equation

"The propagation of ring waves across the surface of the sun in response to a flare initiated sunquake is modeled using Euler's equations of fluid dynamics. "
- Source: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/238587299_Theoretical_Predictions_of_Sunquake_Waves

Eulers Equation for fluid dynamics wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euler_equations_(fluid_dynamics)

Here is the NASA version https://www.grc.nasa.gov/www/k-12/airplane/eulereqs.html

Then you have something like this Scientific draft document https://arxiv.org/pdf/1911.06839.pdf


Edit: I found this too

"To produce the sunquake we need a strong impulsive force in the lower solar atmosphere. The sunquake momentum can be estimated from the initial impact as psq ∼ ρL3 v ∼ 1022 g·cm s−1 for ρ ∼ 10−8 g·cm−3 (photospheric value) and v ∼ cs ∼ 10 km/s, where cs is photospheric sound speed. In principle, the force generating sunquakes can be produced directly by energetic electron beams. The total momentum of injected nonthermal electrons is pe = τ √ 2me Z ∞ Elow f(E) √ EdE"

"We use the following formula to estimate the total sunquake power H+[erg/s] in the frequency range 5-7 mHz: H+ = Z SROI Z t2 t1 cs ρδv2 2 "

im done..
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure if that can be scaled to unnatural shaking considering for earthquakes non-natural ones have far less energy that natural ones by our current standards.
 
Axxtentacle said:
Slightly off topic:

Will this affect any speed scaling that comes with shockwaves?
Click to expand...
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
No this is just regarding calculating AP of shockwaves
Click to expand...
Actually... If an attack created shock waves that traverses a said distance of a period of time, the speed of the shockwaves propagated by characters' attacks have to be proportionate in speed to the attack themselves, and therefore can be scaled to their combat and reaction speeds.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

IGunProFan2341
A shockwave formula that I wanted to use
Replies
2
Views
237
IGunProFan2341
IGunProFan2341
Flashlight237
  • Locked
Adding Brode's Method to the Explosion Yield Calculations Page
Replies
12
Views
2K
Antvasima
Antvasima
StrymULTRA
Formula for Extremely high Large Sizes? (Galaxy-size or more)
Replies
4
Views
1K
Agnaa
Agnaa
Rodri_"Dante"
Do we have a way of calculating the energy required to create explosions?
Replies
2
Views
682
Rodri_"Dante"
Rodri_"Dante"
Furudo_Erika
Brode's Method
Replies
15
Views
2K
Furudo_Erika
Furudo_Erika
Back
Top