Should Every Hero/Villains Scale to Cat Noir's Cataclym? (Miraculous Ladybug)

[FireSwordHero]

Ok this is gonna be controversial

So I've been looking back at the Miraculer Episode, and while it is something that only shown in one episode, I have found a bit of evidence to suggest that all hero's and villain's could scale to 7A from Cat Noir's Cataclysm.

Yes it is likely to be seen as an outlier, but their is some information to suggest that this could be a legitimate upgrade, since single episodes have vastly upgraded the series, such as the FTL scaling from the episode "Cat Blanc".

1. While Cataclysm did injure Cat Noir, it was not able to severely incapacitate him, and was still able to fight till Miraculer was defeated. While there was that scene where Adrien was left on the floor in pain, this was likely done for plot reasons (mainly Plagg's funny moment) as the second time he was hurt, he was able to recover quite easily. While he did need Ladybug to heal from the attack, it was not really implied that he would have not been able to recover from it with time.
2. Also the fact he took two of them roughly back to to back supports Chat having a higher durability than just 7C, since he could handle two of them in the span of a short time, despite being 7-A attacks.
3. It was confirmed by the writers that Hero's and Villains are able to resist the affects of the Cataclysm (though I've yet to find the tweet, I have seen it, and it already accepted as a stat for the heroes at least). While this does mean that they would have a resistance to the deconstruction and corrosion effects, that resistance shouldn't solely be the reason for them being able to survive it, as they would still have to be durable enough to handle the AP part of the ability, which had the power output to destroy a Dimension made by one of the Akumas, Pixelator.
4. Speaking of that feat, Chat Noir's biggest AP/durability feat he scales to at most is 151 kilotons of TNT, which a feat done by Mr Pigeon in the NY special way after Miraculer happened. However, the Dimension breaking feat mentioned above was worth rough 180 megatons of TNT, or 180000 kilotons. This means Chat Noir survived an ability that was 1192 times stronger than his supposed durability! And he survived it twice and got back up both times! Given that, it would be safe to say that either Cataclysm's AP is a massive outlier, or Chat's durability is higher than the 151 kiloton feat he scaled to, otherwise the attack would have likely killed him outright with the sheer AP/durability difference.

So there is already some evidence to suggest that Chat Noir's durability could scale to the AP of his cataclysm, and since a lot of heroes and villains could either keep up with him and/or go toe to toe with him, this would result in every single hero/villain's AP and durability being raised to 7-A , since they can harm Cat Noir who could take his own cataclysm, who in turn can harm them back. However since Chat was still injured by it (plus with the cataclysm being more powerful than Cat Noir himself), I would say that the scaling for the heroes would probably be just under 7A, possibly a low 7A scaling would be appropriate.

However, there are some stuff that are likely going to be brought up by people that suggest its an outlier, though I do have some counter arguments for these as well.

• This only happened in a single episode, so its hard to say if this should be a common thing across all episodes.

In my opinion though I doubt this is a valid arguement as we already accepted the FTL speed feat from Chat Blanc and its only ever really happened in one episode and from a character that was akuma-amped hero, yet we still scaled Ladybug's speed to.

• The fact that the Power are supposed to represent the full extent of the power of the heroes Kwami's, and not something the heroes can really match in their base (since we dont scale Ladybug to the power output of her Miraculous Ladybug, while Ladybug herself can at most destroy a part of a bridge or scales to a 151 kiloton feat.)

Then again, the Miraculous Ladybug is a non-combat applicable compared to other abilities heroes have, and Cataclysm is more offensive oriented and can be used in direct combat.

• Speaking of the Miraculous Ladybug, Cat Noir's power is said to scale to Ladybug's Miraculous Ladybug, which could move Earth back into its orbit after it was pushed by Stormy weather, and is a High 5-A feat. So assuming we allowed that scaling which would in turn affect this feat, that means all heroes would scale to high 5-A by that logic, which would likely cause an uproar in this community as being an outlier and shit ton amount of ridiculous power scaling.

I should point out though that we already have character that can push a moon, and the Miraculous heroes could beat Technolizer, who was able to beat Majestia. Then again though, Technolizer only one because of the hax of the Eagle Miraculous, so take it with a grain of salt.

I myself think that given the statements I gave for the Miraculer episode, it is justifiable to scale Chat Noir's base AP and durability to his Cataclysm (or at just under it) since he was able to handle it for the most part without being knocked-out/incapacitated/killed (not to mention it would itself be an outlier for a 7C hero to handle an attack roughly 1200x stronger than him without it outright obliterating him). However I would like to see what everyone else thinks about this.

EDIT (last minute addition and some writing fix-ups): Given that this feat was done in season 3, and that the heroes and their powers have grown stronger when comparing their season 1 and 2 key to season 3 keys, assuming this CRT is accepted I would be ok if this AP/Durability upgrade was only applied to season 3 keys, given that in season 1 it was heavily implied that an akuma-affected Cat Noir could have killed Ladybug with his Cataclysm (this was in the episode Dark Cupid).

 

[Bernkastelll]

1. While Cataclysm did injure Cat Noir, it was not able to severely incapacitate him, and was still able to fight till Miraculer was defeated. While there was that scene where Adrien was left on the floor in pain, this was likely done for plot reasons (mainly Plagg's funny moment) as the second time he was hurt, he was able to recover quite easily. While he did need Ladybug to heal from the attack, it was not really implied that he would have not been able to recover from it with time.
2. Also the fact he took two of them roughly back to to back supports Chat having a higher durability than just 7C, since he could handle two of them in the span of a short time, despite being 7-A attacks.
3. It was confirmed by the writers that Hero's and Villains are able to resist the affects of the Cataclysm (though I've yet to find the tweet, I have seen it, and it already accepted as a stat for the heroes at least). While this does mean that they would have a resistance to the deconstruction and corrosion effects, that resistance shouldn't solely be the reason for them being able to survive it, as they would still have to be durable enough to handle the AP part of the ability, which had the power output to destroy a Dimension made by one of the Akumas, Pixelator.
4. Speaking of that feat, Chat Noir's biggest AP/durability feat he scales to at most is 151 kilotons of TNT, which a feat done by Mr Pigeon in the NY special way after Miraculer happened, however, Dimension breaking feat done was worth rough 180 megatons of TNT, or 180000 kilotons. This means Chat Noir survived an ability that was 1192 times stronger than his supposed durability! And he survived it twice and got back up both times! Given that, it would be safe to say that either Cataclysm's AP is a massive outlier, or Chat's durability is higher than the 151 kiloton feat he scaled to, otherwise the attack would have likely killed him outright with the sheer AP/durability difference.

I am pretty much neutral about this, I will likely check it better soon

 

[Coolboy6]

Dude. I already made a crt about it like yesterday

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Ok this is gonna be controversial

Miraculous Ladybug? Controversial? Color me shocked. Lol.

While Cataclysm did injure Cat Noir, it was not able to severely incapacitate him, and was still able to fight till Miraculer was defeated. While there was that scene where Adrien was left on the floor in pain, this was likely done for plot reasons (mainly Plagg's funny moment) as the second time he was hurt, he was able to recover quite easily. While he did need Ladybug to heal from the attack, it was not really implied that he would have not been able to recover from it with time.

The scene was to show that Adrien was injured beyond the suits protection, something that had never occurred before in the series. Also, he was barely able to keep up through the rest of the episode.

It was confirmed by the writers that Hero's and Villains are able to resist the affects of the Cataclysm (though I've yet to find the tweet, I have seen it, and it already accepted as a stat for the heroes at least). While this does mean that they would have a resistance to the deconstruction and corrosion effects, that resistance shouldn't solely be the reason for them being able to survive it, as they would still have to be durable enough to handle the AP part of the ability, which had the power output to destroy a Dimension made by one of the Akumas, Pixelator.

When we are talking about an ability like Cataclysm, there's no really an AP part to handle when applied on a character. It's like a poison that can melt down a building; a character resisting said poison wouldn’t be building level, even though the poison itself is.

Speaking of that feat, Chat Noir's biggest AP/durability feat he scales to at most is 151 kilotons of TNT, which a feat done by Mr Pigeon in the NY special way after Miraculer happened.

Not really at most given it's a fooder that has been defeated 20 times since and the feat wasn’t exactly hard to accomplish, but that's besides the point.

• This only happened in a single episode, so its hard to say if this should be a common thing across all episodes.
  In my opinion though I doubt this is a valid arguement as we already accepted the FTL speed feat from Chat Blanc and its only ever really happened in one episode and from a character that was akuma-amped hero, yet we still scaled Ladybug's speed to.

Cataclysm being resisted by a character occurs in more than one episode, the reason why it isn’t accepted is a matter of consistency within the powers that the series handles and the nature of Cataclysm itself.

Two wrongs don’t make one right. Bringing Chat Blanc's FTL AS feat might as well just be a downgrade for the FTL feat itself.

Ladybug herself can at most destroy a part of a bridge or scales to a 151 kiloton feat

Ok. That wording is kinda funny.

Then again, the Miraculous Ladybug is a non-combat applicable compared to other abilities heroes have, and Cataclysm is more offensive oriented and can be used in direct combat.

I mean, Purple Tigress' Collision is the most combat applicable power user in the Miraculous verse, and while getting to launch the strongest physical blow, she isn’t able to dent something that Chat Noir's cataclysm completely obliterated.

Tier 5 Miraculous is a discussion that I refuse to have.

edit: yet

 

[FireSwordHero]

The scene was to show that Adrien was injured beyond the suits protection, something that had never occurred before in the series. Also, he was barely able to keep up through the rest of the episode.

It doesn't really negate the fact that Chat took two of them and was still able to function throughtout that fight. Also its been implied in other episodes that even with the suits, they can only take so much before they themselves start to get hurt.

When we are talking about an ability like Cataclysm, there's no really an AP part to handle when applied on a character. It's like a poison that can melt down a building; a character resisting said poison wouldn’t be building level, even though the poison itself is.

Except this isnt a poison, its magical power with the added effect of corrosion and deconstruction.
Also, the scene where Plagg destroys the Eifel Tower and parts of Paris in Style Queen with his Cataclysm (as seen here)does show that the ability itself must have an AP, otherwise if the the ability was solely a hax-based ability, it would have just instead disintegrated everything throughout Paris like a corrosive plague, deconstructing all the physical matter in Paris instead of leaving cracks throughout the streets, and part of buildings. Not to mention the power also caused a physical explosion at the point of impact that was pushing Ladybug back (had she not been in front of a casket preventing her from doing so)

I mean, Purple Tigress' Collision is the most combat applicable power user in the Miraculous verse, and while getting to launch the strongest physical blow, she isn’t able to dent something that Chat Noir's cataclysm completely obliterated.

That's because its been stated multiple times in the series that the Miraculous of the Ladybug and Black Cat are the strongest Miraculouses to ever exist, so its like that Cataclysm>Collision in terms of power.

 

[Coolboy6]

Dude. I already made a crt about it like yesterday

 

[FireSwordHero]

Dude. I already made a crt about it like yesterday

It was on the same day and it didnt appear as something done before when I made my post Title, leave me alone. I wrote a huge blog post about it and everything.

 

[Coolboy6]

It was on the same day and it didnt appear as something done before when I made my post Title, leave me alone. I wrote a huge blog post about it and everything.

Then why continue this thread if you realized that?

 

[FireSwordHero]

Then why continue this thread if you realized that?

Because im stubborn to a fault

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

It doesn't really negate the fact that Chat took two of them and was still able to function throughtout that fight. Also its been implied in other episodes that even with the suits, they can only take so much before they themselves start to get hurt.

Nothing in the series has ever injured Ladybug nor Cat Noir yet other than Cataclysm, referring to physical trauma.

Except this isnt a poison

I never said it's poison. I said that the way it's AP is related is akin as how you would rate a poison, which is the easiest example. You can talk about magical abilities more akin to Cataclysm nature as Probability Manipulation capable of bringing down buildings and causing things to spontaneously blow up.

Also, the scene where Plagg destroys the Eifel Tower and parts of Paris in Style Queen with his Cataclysm (as seen here)does show that the ability itself must have an AP, otherwise if the the ability was solely a hax-based ability, it would have just instead disintegrated everything throughout Paris like a corrosive plague,

You got a Town Level+ Cataclysm.

Nobody is saying that Cataclysm doesn’t has an AP; that's the very reason why Chat Noir is X tier with Cataclysm. The matter of the fact here is that Cataclysm, as power, doesn’t translates that type of damage equally.

That's because its been stated multiple times in the series that the Miraculous of the Ladybug and Black Cat are the strongest Miraculouses to ever exist, so its like that Cataclysm>Collision in terms of power.

You’re missing the point.

Cataclysm >>>>>>> Captain Hardrock's ship Durability > Collision > Purple Tigress =< Chat Noir