Smash Bros revisions and profile scrutiny

[Pikaman]

A crazy amount of profiles need reworking or quite frankly deletion and redoing

Giga Bowser has no AP justifications and has iffy speed justifications as they scale to Smash Bros Base Bowser who has no profile

Tabuu needs to link to Master Hand’s profile for speed scaling, minor fix

Delete Sandbag. 99% sure this is not a character, and it’s very iffy to class it as a weapon, even if you accept it qualifies for a profile it’s statistics are unfounded, since when did you get Human Level for simply being able to pick yourself up from the ground? Also can not remember a single instance Sandbag has moved, never mind at the speed of the fighters, so speed scaling is poor too.

Delete Shadow Bugs. Bugger all justifications and I’m pretty sure they shouldn’t scale to the other fighters, also been a while since I played subspace but if the whole thing is transforming into other characters shouldn’t their rating be varies?

Serious reworks/deletion needed for Primids. Scaling is unfounded (I’m like 99% sure there has never been an altercation between a Primid and the enemy it’s speed scales to) and the second key does not have AP justifications where there needs to be. Also some species such as the metal primid would have different stats such as the Metal Primid having potentially higher durability, which is not represented (I might be incorrect on the last point here, I’m not 100% sure if metal increases durability in Smash Bros but I think it does, apologies if so, but the other points still stand.)

Lacks LS justifications, needs to scale to a character that actually has a profile.

Like 0 justifications, needs heavy reworks/deletion, although I do think the scaling works, it just isn’t explained who the scaling is to and why it works, so reworks defo needed.

AP justifications needed

4th Key has a few issues with scaling, mainly the fact it scales to Kirby, which doesn’t exist anymore, and Primids, who need serious reworks and themselves are much weaker than the fighters


Also, speed is so bogus lmao. It scales to Galeem’s light rays, which obviously have some form of acceleration, they are at clearly different speeds when the fighters are engulfed in them, and when they encompass the Galaxy. There’s even a cutscene (3:55) that shows it enveloping a planet in a few seconds, and then taking only marginally more time to take over the rest of the entire Galaxy. So this calc scales to none of the fighters and those comparable. Idk what other speed feats there are and whether they could replace this but this figure specifically has to go.

 

[Pikaman]

Also, speed is so bogus lmao. It scales to Galeem’s light rays, which obviously have some form of acceleration, they are at clearly different speeds when the fighters are engulfed in them, and when they encompass the Galaxy. There’s even a cutscene (3:55) that shows it enveloping a planet in a few seconds, and then taking only marginally more time to take over the rest of the entire Galaxy. So this calc scales to none of the fighters and those comparable. Idk what other speed feats there are and whether they could replace this but this figure specifically has to go.

How this scaling was ever accepted I’m not sure, it implies the fighters were a ridiculous number of light years away from Galeem when they sent the rays, because it takes a second or two for them to reach them.

AND the best it gives us is reaction speed even applying the scaling, movement speed is a no since countless characters trying to get away get completely blitzed by the rays the minute they get close at all.

 

[Chariot190]

I'm pretty sure there's some ways to get funny haha big number galeem scaling going on but that ain't it yeah.

AP sus too.

I'll gather some feats later and just drop them all here, there's some decent feats I can think of at the very least that should be straightforward.

 

[Pikaman]

The Warp Star could get some FTL or above number but I seriously doubt you could get it nearly as high as the light, especially since a still accelerating light ray was about to overtake the warp star before it dipped out of the Galaxy or whatever

 

[Pikaman]

I'm pretty sure there's some ways to get funny haha big number galeem scaling going on but that ain't it yeah.

AP sus too.

I'll gather some feats later and just drop them all here, there's some decent feats I can think of at the very least that should be straightforward.

Do you agree with stuff regarding profile deletion? Can some of these profiles be salvaged or are they just better being built ground up

 

[Chariot190]

They can be salvaged, shouldn't be that hard.

And if we delete they'll just be remade so in the end it literally doesn't matter, I'd say just keep them around though as it's less of a hassle.

 

[EliminatorVenom]

By the way, are we still using the justification that characters should not have SSB versions?

I remember an admin a while ago that I asked about it that was vehemently against that, although the justifications were very wonky.

 

[Chariot190]

Idk why the **** not????
Brawl you'd think is directly connected to Ult given the existence of numerous direct call backs worded past tense such as with ROB.

 

[Pikaman]

By the way, are we still using the justification that characters should not have SSB versions?

I remember an admin a while ago that I asked about it that was vehemently against that, although the justifications were very wonky.

Idk about that, I just like the games and saw some bad profiles and made a CRT about it, I’ve not been around in the verse for any length of time to know arguments for and against

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Accelerated light? I thought we acknowledge that speeds in cutscenes sometimes aren't accurate to their actual speeds since assuming an attack just gains speed needs actual proof instead of taking specific clips where it appears slower for cinematic effect? If not, then I'm already thinking about a few threads I can make to downgrade certain feats

 

[Chariot190]

Case by case as with everything.
Idk about this specific case though, mostly because I haven't checked the cutscene yet because busy.

 

[Pikaman]

Accelerated light

MFTL+ Light? It very clearly doesn’t follow conventional physics on light.

I thought we acknowledge that speeds in cutscenes sometimes aren't accurate to their actual speeds since assuming an attack just gains speed needs actual proof instead of taking specific clips where it appears slower for cinematic effect? If not, then I'm already thinking about a few threads I can make to downgrade certain feats

I mean, it covers one planet in a few seconds, and then an entire Galaxy in about as much time, I don’t think we disallow obvious showings of something picking up speed purely because the cutscene might just demand cinematic effect, you could argue through the same logic that the footage of the Galaxy being encompassed is sped up to boast about Galeem’s power.

 

[Chariot190]

Not really, the sped up part I mean.

If it was merely sped up from the previous instance, it'd take like 100000 years to do that irl time. Obviously, that isn't the case unless we assume Kirby blipped out of existence for tens of thousands of years.

Sometimes it very well could be cinematic timing, lots of shows, games and the like have something be a certain speed on screen but the actual speed is far, far, higher. DBZ beams off the top of my head where they're fast but then it zooms out and they cover planetary distances in a few frames.

Though I haven't watched the cutscene in years and can't till later so idk.

 

[Pikaman]

Really you can only argue cinematic effect for it killing all the characters, there’s nothing gained from watching the planet be engulfed in light that watching the same effect with an entire galaxy doesn’t do ten-fold. I think it’s more logical to assume the light grows faster through time, rather than the idea that this beam of light that can swallow a galaxy in seconds was shown to do the same thing to an entity far smaller in the name of cinematic effect, that just undersells the light, and what’s the point in that?

 

[Pikaman]

Side note, why does the verse page not redirect from “Smash Bros”? Nobody puts the Super in before that lmao

 

[Armorchompy]

By the way, are we still using the justification that characters should not have SSB versions?

I remember an admin a while ago that I asked about it that was vehemently against that, although the justifications were very wonky.

No, they're now allowed following a revision of how we allow crossover profiles.

 

[Pikaman]

Bump

 

[Mariogoods]

The issue for Super Smash Bros. series is the continuity problem. Scaling based on character trailers is not reliable since trailers tending to highlight the character it is showing. Combining stories (e.g. Subspace Emissary and Lifelight) in different SSB games may not be reliable too for similar reason. It seems that the possible only reliable scaling is the scaling based on gameplay.

For the proposal itself, I agree with them.

 

[Pikaman]

Bump, been a while since this thread had any traction huh

 

[DaMonkeMan]

The Warp Star could get some FTL or above number but I seriously doubt you could get it nearly as high as the light, especially since a still accelerating light ray was about to overtake the warp star before it dipped out of the Galaxy or whatever

Seems like a really good skill and Extrasensory Perception feat, as he was simply flying out of the trajectory of the beams and dodging them without even looking back or having any indications of where they would be. Might be misremembering though.