Son Goku vs Asura (DBZ Manga vs Asura's Wrath) (GRACE OVER)

[Kellex]

RULES:​

Post Gravity Training Goku is used
Episodes 17-19 Asura is used
Both start in base, but higher tiers in the same key are allowed
Battle takes place in a abandoned village
Speed equalized
SBA

​

AP: 9.9 Ronnatons, higher as Six-Armed Vajra, 16.512 Ronnatons as Mantra Asura (justification)	AP: >1.8 Ronnatons, up to 10x with Kaio-ken; Varies, far higher with Kamehameha
Speed: 10x when transformed into Mantra Asura (Base form scales to this and Mantra form scales to that; almost exactly 10 times the boost)	Speed: Up to 10x when using Kaio-ken
Lifting Strength: 6.0160883e+25 Newtons (You do not **** with LS meta!)	Lifting Strength: >9945224.2622712 Newtons, higher with Kaio-ken
ASURA (8): @GilverTheProtoAngelo, @Planck69, @Lonkitt, @Delusionaltx2, @JustANormalPerson01, @Eseseso, @AnAverageUsername, @XSOULOFCINDERX	SON GOKU (0): None

They become best friends (inconclusive):​

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Be honest, you found the matching renders and thought they were cool didn't you...

I know because I probably would have done the same thing

 

[Kellex]

Be honest, you found the matching renders and thought they were cool didn't you...

I know because I probably would have done the same thing

Yep, ya caught me. Asura's portrait comes from theCHAMBA and I have no idea who made Goku's.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yep, ya caught me. Asura's portrait comes from theCHAMBA and I have no idea who made Goku's.

Lowkenienly considering the use of deviant art for roblox profiles / roblox vs threads

Anyways I'm following

 

[Delusionaltx2]

bump

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Ok so stat-wise, Asura has a 5.5x ap advantage and an enormous LS advantage while both are comparable with their speed amps

At their peak, though, Goku does have a slight Ap advantage with the Kaioken

Luckily enough, goku has info analysis that allows him to detect power levels even when the opponent is suppressing their ki (meaning he dosen't need to feel a strong amount of ki to know someone is strong) so I think goku should know to use the kaioken, even then the overall stat advantage should still go to asura

X factors on the otherhand seems to be a different story

For one, goku seems to be far more skilled than asura. He upscales from roshi who already knows all martial arts while asura (skilled in his own right tbf) dosen't really have anything like that from what it seems. Both also have ANPR but since goku is more skilled it would just go in his favor

Asura should be able to handle the danmaku (although goku dosen't ki spam as much compared to vegeta so it shouldn't matter) but I think the real problem is going to come in the form of "Saiyans have no limits RAHHH!1!1 (Zenkai boosts and saiyain AD basically). Goku should be able to close the gap and grow as the fight progressess while asura is kinda just stuck with his current stats.

The kamehameha iirc can also one shot things comparable to goku at full power so if asura gets hit by that, he's kinda finished

I think after a hard-fought battle, goku would just extreme diff him thanks to Sayian physiology and charged attacks like the kamehameha

Voting Goatku here

 

[koopa3144]

Goku should be able to close the gap and grow as the fight progressess while asura is kinda just stuck with his current stats.

Doesnt Asura also get progressively stronger from his Rage Power amps?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Doesnt Asura also get progressively stronger from his Rage Power amps?

His rage power amps seem to be tied to things like his transformations and attacks rather than him just growing stronger ontop of what he already has]

I imagine if it really worked that way then he should have some form of RE on his profile like how the hulk does

 

[Kellex]

At their peak, though, Goku does have a slight Ap advantage with the Kaioken

Kaioken causes strain on his body if he overuses it so if Goku doesn't finish this quick, it could be troublesome later on.

Luckily enough, goku has info analysis that allows him to detect power levels even when the opponent is suppressing their ki (meaning he dosen't need to feel a strong amount of ki to know someone is strong) so I think goku should know to use the kaioken, even then the overall stat advantage should still go to asura

Sure, fair enough.

For one, goku seems to be far more skilled than asura. He upscales from roshi who already knows all martial arts while asura (skilled in his own right tbf) dosen't really have anything like that from what it seems. Both also have ANPR but since goku is more skilled it would just go in his favor

Asura's skills are not meant to be underestimated either. Just like Goku, Asura upscales from his mentor Augus and the other deities (except maybe Yasha) who already have thousands of years worth of experience under their belt, and I personally think his ANPR is a lot more impressive than Goku's. (Anything further than 36:00 is not relevant)

Doesnt Asura also get progressively stronger from his Rage Power amps?

He should tbh. Asura needed Yasha's help to fight Deus at first, but then Asura got angry enough to stand up on his own and defeated Deus himself. He also has Ulimited Mode to increase his strength for a period of time without overheating.

The kamehameha iirc can also one shot things comparable to goku at full power so if asura gets hit by that, he's kinda finished

That needs to be charged tho. Asura is like the last person to let something like that happen lmao.

Btw LS meta isn't being talked about enough! Asura is wellknown for grabbing and tossing them around even launching them into space. If Asura does grab him, it would be really bad for Goku and would probably end there.

I think after a hard-fought battle, goku would just extreme diff him thanks to Sayian physiology and charged attacks like the kamehameha

Voting Goatku here

I also think it's a very hard diff. I'm not voting for either one yet tho, but I'll count yours first.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Kaioken causes strain on his body if he overuses it so if Goku doesn't finish this quick, it could be troublesome later on.

yeah but this isn't saiyan saga goku where he can only use high amounts in short bursts, goku at this point, can maintain up to like x10 and even x20 before reciving massive strain

here he only really needs like x2 or x3 mixed with a bit of saiyain AD before he makes up for the gap

Asura's skills are not meant to be underestimated either. Just like Goku, Asura upscales from his mentor Augus and the other deities (except maybe Yasha) who already have thousands of years worth of experience under their belt,

Now experience alone isn't exactly useless but having massive upscale from characters who have mastered all martial arts is just WAY more impressive than that

and I personally think his ANPR is a lot more impressive than Goku's. (Anything further than 36:00 is not relevant)

Early versions of Goku can decipher the flaws in someone's techniques after seeing them once

That needs to be charged tho. Asura is like the last person to let something like that happen lmao.

Technically? Although goku can just do stuff like this and potentially sneak him

Btw LS meta isn't being talked about enough! Asura is wellknown for grabbing and tossing them around even launching them into space. If Asura does grab him, it would be really bad for Goku and would probably end there.

Goku could just blast himself back tbf or stop him self mid air

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

His rage power amps seem to be tied to things like his transformations and attacks rather than him just growing stronger ontop of what he already has]

I imagine if it really worked that way then he should have some form of RE on his profile like how the hulk does

Opposite actually. Unlike Saiyans, Asura's Transformations are representation of his powers rather than a source. His physicality and mutations reflect his rage, not the other way around. Regardless Asura also has passive Rage/AD amp. And unlike Goku he doesn't need to heal before boosting his power.

Goku is skilled, fundamentally Asura isn't any different. Those 6 arms are another advantage in versitility and extra attack and defense vectors.

I vote Asura via superior stats/amps/regen/stamina. All things equal, Asura just wins from attrition alone. Also that LS means with each physical clash Goku would be tossed around like a soft toy, any grapples or chokeholds will swiftly distress Goku especially with extra hands Asura has, even if Goku manages to escape any grapples he won't be escaping without any damage. If Goku ends up breaking his limbs or tearing his tendons or ligaments, his combat capability is falling fast, damage is going to add up fast.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Also yes Space BFR with tossing is extremely in character for Asura, like he did for Wyzen. That kind of LS difference won't be counteracted via Ki propulsion because Goku doesn't have enough LS.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Opposite actually. Unlike Saiyans, Asura's Transformations are representation of his powers rather than a source. His physicality and mutations reflect his rage, not the other way around. Regardless Asura also has passive Rage/AD amp. And unlike Goku he doesn't need to heal before boosting his power.

how fast is it then?

Goku is skilled, fundamentally Asura isn't any different.

Now maybe its just me but don't people like master roshi have knowledge on all martial arts? I feel like comparing that to someone capable of handling a couple of them isn't a good comparison

Those 6 arms are another advantage in versitility and extra attack and defense vectors.

This is actually true tbf

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Also yes Space BFR with tossing is extremely in character for Asura, like he did for Wyzen. That kind of LS difference won't be counteracted via Ki propulsion because Goku doesn't have enough LS.

When asura launches goku to the air he isn't grappling him anymore therefore no class Y force is being applying on goku to stop him from moving

when energy is applied accross more distance, the force is drastically decreased. If asura tries to throw goku to space then yeah I can see him maybe tossing goku a couple kilometers into the sky but after that the remaining force wouldn't be enough to stop him from just using ki propulsion

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

how fast is it then?

I mean I can't quantify, but an inferior version of him forced Wyzen through two drastic transformations and still lost to Asura. This version is even more busted in rage.

Now maybe its just me but don't people like master roshi have knowledge on all martial arts? I feel like comparing that to someone capable of handling a couple of them isn't a good comparison

On screen visual wise it amounts to nothing significant. I am not downplaying, but ultimately the fights we see on screen are pretty straightforward striking matches with some grapples thrown in. And like Bruce Lee says 10,000 repititions of single kick type > 10,000 different kick varieties, or something along those lines.
Both Goku and Asura have strong fundamentals in striking, grappling and energy stuff. Maybe Asura prefers grappling more. Battle IQ wise like mental stuff, Goku maybe a bit more crafty but Asura can pull surprises too.

When asura launches goku to the air he isn't grappling him anymore therefore no class Y force is being applying on goku to stop him from moving

when energy is applied accross more distance, the force is drastically decreased. If asura tries to throw goku to space then yeah I can see him maybe tossing goku a couple kilometers into the sky but after that the remaining force wouldn't be enough to stop him from just using ki propulsion

Asura and instantly toss characters of relative LS to him into space, like literally instantly relative to him in speed. Wyzen was 2 story tall and heavy metal giant when he got tossed, Goku is some 200 pound body weight guy with severe disparity in LS relative to Asura. Goku won't have enough time or distance to decelerate. I don't know if he has IT in this key maybe teleportation can counter this idk. But yeah, Goku severely lacks the body weight and LS to oppose Asura's superior LS tosses.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

I mean I can't quantify, but an inferior version of him forced Wyzen through two drastic transformations and still lost to Asura. This version is even more busted in rage.

noted ig

On screen visual wise it amounts to nothing significant. I am not downplaying, but ultimately the fights we see on screen are pretty straightforward striking matches with some grapples thrown in. And like Bruce Lee says 10,000 repititions of single kick type > 10,000 different kick varieties, or something along those lines.
Both Goku and Asura have strong fundamentals in striking, grappling and energy stuff. Maybe Asura prefers grappling more. Battle IQ wise like mental stuff, Goku maybe a bit more crafty but Asura can pull surprises too.

that is a good point

Asura and instantly toss characters of relative LS to him into space, like literally instantly relative to him in speed. Wyzen was 2 story tall and heavy metal giant when he got tossed, Goku is some 200 pound body weight guy with severe disparity in LS relative to Asura. Goku won't have enough time or distance to decelerate. I don't know if he has IT in this key maybe teleportation can counter this idk. But yeah, Goku severely lacks the body weight and LS to oppose Asura's superior LS tosses.

Now i think with the new information (and slight digging on how fast he actually threw wryzen into space) i'll probably stay neutral (leaning towards asura)

 

[Kellex]

Now i think with the new information (and slight digging on how fast he actually threw wryzen into space) i'll probably stay neutral (leaning towards asura)

Do you want me to remove your vote?

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Do you want me to remove your vote?

yeah

 

[Planck69]

Voting for Asura, for Gilver's reasons.

 

[Apotheosis69]

Dragon Ball seriously needs its Lifting Strength scaling chain already… its beyond ridiculous

 

[Kellex]

Dragon Ball seriously needs its Lifting Strength scaling chain already… its beyond ridiculous

I still find it hard to believe it relies on OG Dragon Ball lmao.

 

[Eseseso]

Ok so stat-wise, Asura has a 5.5x ap advantage and an enormous LS advantage while both are comparable with their speed amps

At their peak, though, Goku does have a slight Ap advantage with the Kaioken

Luckily enough, goku has info analysis that allows him to detect power levels even when the opponent is suppressing their ki (meaning he dosen't need to feel a strong amount of ki to know someone is strong) so I think goku should know to use the kaioken, even then the overall stat advantage should still go to asura

X factors on the otherhand seems to be a different story

For one, goku seems to be far more skilled than asura. He upscales from roshi who already knows all martial arts while asura (skilled in his own right tbf) dosen't really have anything like that from what it seems. Both also have ANPR but since goku is more skilled it would just go in his favor

Asura should be able to handle the danmaku (although goku dosen't ki spam as much compared to vegeta so it shouldn't matter) but I think the real problem is going to come in the form of "Saiyans have no limits RAHHH!1!1 (Zenkai boosts and saiyain AD basically). Goku should be able to close the gap and grow as the fight progressess while asura is kinda just stuck with his current stats.

The kamehameha iirc can also one shot things comparable to goku at full power so if asura gets hit by that, he's kinda finished

I think after a hard-fought battle, goku would just extreme diff him thanks to Sayian physiology and charged attacks like the kamehameha

Voting Goatku here

Goku extreme-diff FRA

 

[Apotheosis69]

Goku does have the Eight Arms Technique too. So that can help against his Mantra form.

And he can use Solar Flare, which gives him time to do a fully charged Kaioken Kamehameha.

 

[Lonkitt]

Yeah I really don't think AD or Zenkais would do the trick for Goku here, I would say that part is overhyped unless you're someone like DBS Broly (which Goku, Vegeta, and even a high potential character like Gohan can't replicate). Even if he did get some AD out of this fight, Asura's is much faster acting/more effective, plus it wouldn't negate the LS advantage at all

Also, no one's really mentioned yet how there's a good chance of Asura just swatting Goku's Ki attacks back at him, even with larger more powerful attacks. I generally see Asura's fighting style, abilities, overwhelming LS, and tactics acting far more favourably for his victory here compared to Goku's wincons

Goku does have the Eight Arms Technique too. So that can help against his Mantra form.

I disagree heavily. Tien's use of four arms in combat is catastrophically less advanced than Asura's technique. Besides, Asura counters guys who can pull off the same sort of thing all the time. The Eight Arms Technique's not gonna be carrying Goku here at all IMO given how far less advanced and effective it is

And he can use Solar Flare, which gives him time to do a fully charged Kaioken Kamehameha.

Even assuming Asura stands there and takes it, this is ultimately a risky move that might put Goku in trouble. Would he do it? If he lasts long enough to, sure. But as we saw with Freeza, a stronger Goku using a Kaioken x20 Kamehameha was pretty drained from that. If it lands, it could do some damage, but it would leave him vulnerable more than likely all while Asura's not drained of any stamina


Voting Asura FRA + what I said

 

[GAGGamerTheOverlord]

On screen visual wise it amounts to nothing significant. I am not downplaying, but ultimately the fights we see on screen are pretty straightforward striking matches with some grapples thrown in. And like Bruce Lee says 10,000 repititions of single kick type > 10,000 different kick varieties, or something along those lines.
Both Goku and Asura have strong fundamentals in striking, grappling and energy stuff. Maybe Asura prefers grappling more. Battle IQ wise like mental stuff, Goku maybe a bit more crafty but Asura can pull surprises too.

Asura and instantly toss characters of relative LS to him into space, like literally instantly relative to him in speed. Wyzen was 2 story tall and heavy metal giant when he got tossed, Goku is some 200 pound body weight guy with severe disparity in LS relative to Asura. Goku won't have enough time or distance to decelerate. I don't know if he has IT in this key maybe teleportation can counter this idk. But yeah, Goku severely lacks the body weight and LS to oppose Asura's superior LS tosses.

Oh I don't think this Bruce Lee quote works here, Roshi should be superior to Gohan, who is the best in all martial arts, in itself Roshi's style is overwhelming as a martial art (martial art that Goku has) (Goku is superior to Kami who (I think) is better than Roshi

I don't think Goku let himself be grabbed by a monster that is coming directly for him

 

[Kellex]

I disagree heavily. Tien's use of four arms in combat is catastrophically less advanced than Asura's technique. Besides, Asura counters guys who can pull off the same sort of thing all the time. The Eight Arms Technique's not gonna be carrying Goku here at all IMO given how far less advanced and effective it is

Not to mention the other limbs this Asura can generate, which is likely to be the same arm that incinerated most of the Gohma in Episode 11.5.

Even assuming Asura stands there and takes it, this is ultimately a risky move that might put Goku in trouble. Would he do it? If he lasts long enough to, sure. But as we saw with Freeza, a stronger Goku using a Kaioken x20 Kamehameha was pretty drained from that. If it lands, it could do some damage, but it would leave him vulnerable more than likely all while Asura's not drained of any stamina

Asura should be able to withstand the Solar Flare considering how bright the earth's core might be, but hey that's just me.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

bump

 

[Delusionaltx2]

Yeah i'm voting asura FRA

the arguments look more convincing

 

[Eseseso]

Doesn't the Kamehameha let Goku damage people far above his normal level?

A KKx10 Kamehameha should badly damage Mantra Asura

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Asura doesn't weaken with injuries, he can regen, and may even tank it with infinite form.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I vote for Asura for Gilver's reasons.

The LS difference is massive, meaning one grab is all Asura needs to finish with Goku, given at this time Goku cannot teleport out. Asura also can redirect Goku's Ki blasts back to him.

Goku can sense Asura's ki, which'd tell him Asura's AP. But even with that he wouldn't be able to tell the massive difference of LS between both.

The only way for Goku to win imo is to start with a KKx10 charged Kame Hame Ha from a distance big enough so Asura does not interrupt him charging the attack right at the beginning of the match –before the stamina issues of KKx10 appear–.

But I doubt he'd do so. Against Frieza, for example, who Goku knew was an overwhelmingly superior, he didn't use a charged Kame Hame Ha until after a fist-to-fist battle with KKx10 and another fist-to-fist + Ki blasts battle with KKx20.

Against Ginyu, who was comparable to him using KKx10 iirc, Goku didn't use a Kame Hame Ha and got body switched before even trying

Goku going to a fist-to-fist fight right here will be his fatal mistake.

If he starts without using KKx10, he's ~5x weaker than Asura, so Asura will be able to handle him quite easily.

If he starts with KKx10, he'd be just ~2x stronger than base Asura so he cannot one shot him with physical attacks. Using KKx10 will most likely force Asura to transform to keep up with the speed difference.

But anyway, Goku most likely going for a physical clash at the beginning vs Asura's massive LS difference + 6 hands will not end well for Goku.

Hell, even if Goku started with Ki attacks, he'd most likely start with ki blasts before a charged Kame Hame Ha, Ki blasts that'd be returned back to him. So, he'd just stop using Ki attacks entirely like how he did against Tien in classic DB once he witnessed Tien reflecting a Kame Hame Ha back with a Kiai against Roshi

So, even if the possibility of Goku winning is there (unless Asura can reflect back a charged Kame Hame Ha from someone as strong as him), I'd say Asura has more possibilities of winning.

 

[Eseseso]

I vote for Asura for Gilver's reasons.

The LS difference is massive, meaning one grab is all Asura needs to finish with Goku, given at this time Goku cannot teleport out. Asura also can redirect Goku's Ki blasts back to him.

Goku can sense Asura's ki, which'd tell him Asura's AP. But even with that he wouldn't be able to tell the massive difference of LS between both.

The only way for Goku to win imo is to start with a KKx10 charged Kame Hame Ha from a distance big enough so Asura does not interrupt him charging the attack right at the beginning of the match –before the stamina issues of KKx10 appear–.

But I doubt he'd do so. Against Frieza, for example, who Goku knew was an overwhelmingly superior, he didn't use a charged Kame Hame Ha until after a fist-to-fist battle with KKx10 and another fist-to-fist + Ki blasts battle with KKx20.

Against Ginyu, who was comparable to him using KKx10 iirc, Goku didn't use a Kame Hame Ha and got body switched before even trying

Goku going to a fist-to-fist fight right here will be his fatal mistake.

If he starts without using KKx10, he's ~5x weaker than Asura, so Asura will be able to handle him quite easily.

If he starts with KKx10, he'd be just ~2x stronger than base Asura so he cannot one shot him with physical attacks. Using KKx10 will most likely force Asura to transform to keep up with the speed difference.

But anyway, Goku most likely going for a physical clash at the beginning vs Asura's massive LS difference + 6 hands will not end well for Goku.

Hell, even if Goku started with Ki attacks, he'd most likely start with ki blasts before a charged Kame Hame Ha, Ki blasts that'd be returned back to him. So, he'd just stop using Ki attacks entirely like how he did against Tien in classic DB once he witnessed Tien reflecting a Kame Hame Ha back with a Kiai against Roshi

So, even if the possibility of Goku winning is there (unless Asura can reflect back a charged Kame Hame Ha from someone as strong as him), I'd say Asura has more possibilities of winning.

Switching to Asura FRA

 

[AnAverageUsername]

LETS GOOOO! MY GOAT! ASURA FRA!!!!

Also Asuras regen is ridiculous, take a look at the first bonus episode for an example.

 

[Delusionaltx2]

LETS GOOOO! MY GOAT! ASURA FRA!!!!

Also Asuras regen is ridiculous, take a look at the first bonus episode for an example.

@Kellex grace starts here

 

[AnAverageUsername]

LETS GOOOO! MY GOAT! ASURA FRA!!!!

Also Asuras regen is ridiculous, take a look at the first bonus episode for an example.

Like im unsure if Asura would get pushed this far, but this is insane

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Asura FRA.