Sonic fights another diety (GRACE)

[ShakeResounding]

This seems like nothing more than a battle of semantics

 

[sanicspood]

Shallow FRA

counted

 

[ElixirBlue]

probability and causality to win even if there is a 0% chance to win,

Is there an example from her story that explicitly points that out?

From what I understand of her power, she just ends the story. But your explanation didn’t really answer what kind of ending comes from it.

Her power is bringing phenomena to an end, all beings and things have an end, she brings it. This end can basically take whatever form she wants, ie she can end an aspect of a thing or person, such as their souls or memories or even something like an explosion.

From what I understand from this of her power, she just ends the story. But your explanation didn’t really answer what kind of ending comes from it.

She controls what ends but the details of controlling the end to be like “good” ending, “bad” ending, doesn’t seems to be covered.

The Epilogue is already active in her complete form, bypasses resistances, people who are basically almost all knowing, came up with ways to protect against it, useless, sealing it, useless, running away, useless, regenerating from being erased from existence, useless you still die, being beyond the concept of life and death, useless, manipulating fate, probability and causality to win even if there is a 0% chance to win, useless, manipulating the story to win, useless, evolving into a being who can win, useless etc. The end comes to all things no matter what means you use.

I mean, this only applies to stopping the ending, not controlling how the end turns out.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

@ElixirBlue The end is the opponents permanent death, it's nothing complicated. She shows up, and its the end of the story, the book is closed, the world is ended, the end, nothing else happens.

There is no good ending, i mean how exactly would that even happened? She shows up one day destroys a world, the other world creators think nothing of it, she continues doing the same thing for a while, now all these Gods are completely scared out of their minds because defeating her is impossible, no matter what you do you die.

She shows up to Eden, and Eden isn't all like oh my world and story is gonna end in a good end, its i am gonna die, and there is nothing i can do to stop it.

I think what you were trying to imply is that Shiro is just bringing the end, and thus cause she only brings the end, Sonic's ability is to win in the end so she is just bringing Sonic's victory, that's not how it works.

Alice's ability is to win in the end, the basic part of her ability is manipulating fate, and probability to win even if there is a 0% chance of wining, and then the advanced version is to become the embodiment of hope, hope has no end, and neither does her growth, so she infinitely grows, she evolves, if she can't win right now, she will evolve to become a version of herself that can eventually win.

If the logic is Shiro just brings the end, and doesn't control good or bad, in the end Alice would be able to overcome the Epilogue, because Alice is suppose to eventually win, but that's not what happens, it's impossible.

Eden has this exact same ability, and there was another God in the raws who was her rival, who has the same ability too and could create like infinite clones and Shiro just killed him anyway, hence when Shiro showed up Eden was scared out of her mind, cause she knew there was nothing she could do, she would die all the same.

 

[ElixirBlue]

I think what you were trying to imply is that Shiro is just bringing the end, and thus cause she only brings the end, Sonic's ability is to win in the end so she is just bringing Sonic's victory, that's not how it works.

Yeah, that’s what I’m wondering about.

Alice's ability is to win in the end, the basic part of her ability is manipulating fate, and probability to win even if there is a 0% chance of wining, and then the advanced version is to become the embodiment of hope, hope has no end, and neither does her growth, so she infinitely grows, she evolves, if she can't win right now, she will evolve to become a version of herself that can eventually win.

Hm...

Now I have a question. Part of Sonic’s FateHax makes his opponents act stupid or cocky than they are against anyone else who isn’t Sonic, preventing them from using their best moves to win till it’s too late to ensure his victory.

Does she have that sort of resistance?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

This is passive vs passive, the moment the fight starts both abilities are already active, so the whole making Shallow Vernal act stupid until it's too late is directly clashing with Shallow Vernal bringing Sonic's story to an end.

Shiro has no resistance to Fate hax of Sonic's caliber that works on acausals, and Sonic has no resistance to Shiro's plot hax which overpowers other plot hax, and negates resistances.

This battle as said by myself and others, is gonna be a battle of semantics.

I can go into the fact that even if Sonic's ability hits Shiro at the start of the battle without her using her ability, it's meaningless and all other sorts of things, but ultimately with Shiro it's just gonna be "Shiro ends the story of this being who has used X ability on her". This is real easy to wank.

In the last upgrade thread i tried arguing for her having immeasurable speed due to her ability being basically faster than passives, and other stuff like even if you time travelled or altered the past to make it not hit in the past, so it never hit, or killed her before she even used her ability it would be meaningless, she would still end that person's story, ultimately it just got chalked up as op causality manipulation.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Shallow FRA.

 

[sanicspood]

counted

 

[ElixirBlue]

In the last upgrade thread i tried arguing for her having immeasurable speed due to her ability being basically faster than passives, and other stuff like even if you time travelled or altered the past to make it not hit in the past, so it never hit, or killed her before she even used her ability it would be meaningless, she would still end that person's story, ultimately it just got chalked up as op causality manipulation.

Sonic's FateHax is argued to do the same, creating the Chosen One prophecy centuries before Mammoth Mogul became One with the Chaos Force, before Sonic encountered him in that state.

Well, blindsighting Immeasurables.

I can go into the fact that even if Sonic's ability hits Shiro at the start of the battle without her using her ability, it's meaningless and all other sorts of things, but ultimately with Shiro it's just gonna be "Shiro ends the story of this being who has used X ability on her".

I mean, you can argue that Sonic can't prevent the end but I doubt Shiro can prevent the end being in Sonic's victory, in one form or another.

Shiro has no resistance to Fate hax of Sonic's caliber that works on acausals, and Sonic has no resistance to Shiro's plot hax which overpowers other plot hax, and negates resistances.

Fate vs Plot


I'm voting Incon. I don't see Shiro overcoming the FateHax to gain victory, even if she causes the end. Likewise, Sonic's overcoming Plot is a bit iffy, even tho he has effected Plot before.

Heck, Sonic's FateHax is only called "Fate Manipulation" because we aren't sure what kind of power it really is and Fate Manipulation is the closest thing to it.

 

[sanicspood]

Sonic's FateHax is argued to do the same, creating the Chosen One prophecy centuries before Mammoth Mogul became One with the Chaos Force, before Sonic encountered him in that state.

Well, blindsighting Immeasurables.



I mean, you can argue that Sonic can't prevent the end but I doubt Shiro can prevent the end being in Sonic's victory, in one form or another.



Fate vs Plot


I'm voting Incon. I don't see Shiro overcoming the FateHax to gain victory, even if she causes the end.

counted

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Appropriate

 

[sanicspood]

bump

 

[sanicspood]

bump

 

[sanicspood]

bump

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Maybe if you changed the title, ppl will show up?

Like putting in the vote tally.

 

[sanicspood]

fine

 

[BetterThanYou]

Shallow FRA

 

[sanicspood]

counted

 

[Bernkastelll]

Shallow FRA

 

[Sonicflare9]

shallow fra

 

[sanicspood]

both counted

 

[Starter_Pack]

Shallow Vernal FRA.

 

[sanicspood]

counted and grace