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A General Thread for all things Sonic, whether the games,Archie,or the new IDW comics.
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Sonic General Disscusion Thread
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How was I not getting Notifications until now?
Anyway I think we should assume the idw verse is comparable to the games, seeing as how it takes place after forces
@Bob
Chilli Dogs and Rings fly loose everywhere
Anyway I think we should assume the idw verse is comparable to the games, seeing as how it takes place after forces
@Bob
Chilli Dogs and Rings fly loose everywhere
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RIP HST and welp who knows. And I wonder how many chilli dogs sonic eats in a day lolz
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- Thread starter
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Thus is his breakfast
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welp he's gonna choke as he runs one of these days
ShakeResounding
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@Bob They all eat chili dogs, kick ass, and take names in their own Speedster way. Then a big bad comes along, gets eviscerated by several Super Sonics, and they all proceed to laugh at Boom!Sonic's abnormally long legs.
Wasn't it funny how Sonic took up so many consecutive tiers at one point?
Boom is 7-C, Modern was 7-B, OVA is 7-A, and X is 6-C.
Wasn't it funny how Sonic took up so many consecutive tiers at one point?
Boom is 7-C, Modern was 7-B, OVA is 7-A, and X is 6-C.
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^ But not before Scourge betrays them and they all kick his ass in Super Forms
Bobsican
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I dig the IDW comic so far,it has more action with cool choreography in the panels.
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Me too, I'm hoping we'll get some Archie level feats out of it.
ShakeResounding
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@Hst That would be awesome. But at that point, wouldn't a seperate profile need to be made? I doubt we could scale it to the Game Universe cast, despite it supposedly taking place within the continuity.
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need more archie like feats lolz
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An official character crossover? High 2-A game sonic ovo?
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Does anyone else follow up on archiesoniconline? It's an online continuation of the pre SGW continuity
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t's not canon, it's just made by fans. But just like Sonic The Comic Online might be that if this project succeeds SEGA might end up recognizing it as a faithful and important work for Sonic Fandom. This can happen even more if people who worked on Archie ended up helping to make this sequel, just as it was with Sonic The Comic.
The reboot was basically "All the old characters that continued in existence, actually are new characters who never had contact with the old world." Less Sonic, Eggman, and characters that were in the Sol Zone , in that case she only had "Changes" causing disasters in the universe and bringing Willy Egg to that Zone, but characters like Blaze remembered the events before rebooting and Capitan Metal (A Metal Sonic from the old Multiverse) still existed.
Moreover, Sonic and Eggman for being in the epicenter were slow to be affected, but over time reality began to consume them adding memories about the history of the new world and changing their molecular structure to be consistent with the new story. In addition, Genesis wave residues in Nicole allowed some characters to gain the memory of the old multiverse, but at the request of SEGA this should be something only referenced in the first two post-reboot volumes and then those memories would be forgotten and could not be referenced again . Except for information from the editors to reference and explain that things from the old multiverse were not part of the new chronology (How to explain that the connection between Eggman and Willy was because of Sonic Generations).
The reboot was basically "All the old characters that continued in existence, actually are new characters who never had contact with the old world." Less Sonic, Eggman, and characters that were in the Sol Zone , in that case she only had "Changes" causing disasters in the universe and bringing Willy Egg to that Zone, but characters like Blaze remembered the events before rebooting and Capitan Metal (A Metal Sonic from the old Multiverse) still existed.
Moreover, Sonic and Eggman for being in the epicenter were slow to be affected, but over time reality began to consume them adding memories about the history of the new world and changing their molecular structure to be consistent with the new story. In addition, Genesis wave residues in Nicole allowed some characters to gain the memory of the old multiverse, but at the request of SEGA this should be something only referenced in the first two post-reboot volumes and then those memories would be forgotten and could not be referenced again . Except for information from the editors to reference and explain that things from the old multiverse were not part of the new chronology (How to explain that the connection between Eggman and Willy was because of Sonic Generations).
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Because it was literally what was mentioned in World Unites. Eggman explains that he encountered Willy after a failure with a space-time experience. The Editor puts a note saying "after the game Sonic Generations , the Super Genesis Wave changed ALL the story". So canonically in this new world, Eggman encounters Willy because of him being trapped in the "Temporal Void" and Willy eventually finds him in this world. In the scene Eggman appears in the region of the end of Sonic Generations, the White Void.
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Originally it was not straightforward. When Archie adapted the games, they just adapted. But with SA2 they just put an intro and then they said "to know how that goes, play the game". It was so with SA2, Sonic Rush, Sonic 06, Sonic Chronicles, etc. At least those that do not happen in the "Another Time, Another Place Zone" that is officially the Zone where the Sonic games take place.
But over time Ian Flynn started referring to games that did not have adaptations in Archie and to that it said "This occurred in Game X" like Tails mentioning the Launch Base and the editor saying "This happened in Sonic 2".
After the Super Wave Genesis, Archie's story is the same as the ones of the game until Sonic Generations (except Sonic World Adventure, they explain Sonic already living this story in Sonic Generations as the cause of time travel. Sonic Chronicles also did not occur because reference to this game could cause problems for SEGA because of copyright, Ian explains that the game is canon, but would occur only in the future of this story). So always in the new comics is referenced the games when a reference is made.
This began right away in the early editions with Tails referring to Sonic Colors DS, Sonic realizing that the history of the new world had differences from its original world (Speaking of the differences between Sonic Adventure in Archie and the Dreamcast version) and in the future it was repeated in other stories. Like Shadow referring to SA2 and Shadow The Hedgehog, Knuckles to Sonic 3 and S & K and things like that.
But over time Ian Flynn started referring to games that did not have adaptations in Archie and to that it said "This occurred in Game X" like Tails mentioning the Launch Base and the editor saying "This happened in Sonic 2".
After the Super Wave Genesis, Archie's story is the same as the ones of the game until Sonic Generations (except Sonic World Adventure, they explain Sonic already living this story in Sonic Generations as the cause of time travel. Sonic Chronicles also did not occur because reference to this game could cause problems for SEGA because of copyright, Ian explains that the game is canon, but would occur only in the future of this story). So always in the new comics is referenced the games when a reference is made.
This began right away in the early editions with Tails referring to Sonic Colors DS, Sonic realizing that the history of the new world had differences from its original world (Speaking of the differences between Sonic Adventure in Archie and the Dreamcast version) and in the future it was repeated in other stories. Like Shadow referring to SA2 and Shadow The Hedgehog, Knuckles to Sonic 3 and S & K and things like that.
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At least they were direct in saying they accepted the stories of the games. Unlike IDW in which we see direct reference to games, images that literally come from the history of games, characters referenced events, and even referring to things that were only revealed in interviews with the production team ... But still " That's not to say that the games are canonical for Comic, in fact something like that has occurred, but there's no way to be sure how big the resemblance is. "
What they don't only say "The games are canonical for comics, as long as there is no contradiction"? It would make things simpler.
What they don't only say "The games are canonical for comics, as long as there is no contradiction"? It would make things simpler.
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This thread needs more love.
Dance, Eggboi, dance!
Dance, Eggboi, dance!
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About copyrights issues, I'll try to explain this in an easy way.
Archie did not use many people who were actually contradicted by her as part of her company in Sonic comics. For this they used more freelance writers and designers, so came a time that many wrote with many designers and the consistency was little.
Overall, in the original comics the most prominent writer was Ken Penders, who developed many of the comic concepts and developed them in a more serious way. For years Ken Penders was creating his own stories within the comic, in doing so he used to only use main characters in the games but would work more on the characters he created in the stories he created. This involved mainly Knuckles, of which Penders created a mythology very different from what the games had created until then (And I must say, the mythology of the Equidnas in Comics is much more interesting than in the games).
Penders always arranged a way to create new characters, mainly to make stories of relatives of the characters that were missing or that the characters themselves did not know they existed. (To be honest, the whole story of Tails and Knuckles that stand out most in the comic, are based especially in this).
And since it was Penders who developed the concept of Multiverse in Comic, then he was also responsible for creating several characters in the multiverse.
One thing that Penders loved was the creative freedom that SEGA and Archie gave him and so he always did his best and created stories that involved controversial issues such as religion, politics, and so on.
But there was one thing that Penders did very badly, if some of his stories are very good in part, others are very bad. Mostly they are practically useless. And yet, Penders did not often share his ideas with other members of production. So sometimes he quarreled with production members because they misused the concepts he had developed, such as Knuckles' story on Sonic 125 of which Penders had different thoughts of how it should have ended (Penders wanted Knuckles had left the Chaos Force because of the space-time distortions of the Quantum Dial, but Karl decided to make a more epic plot full of dangers that would end with Sonic having to sacrifice himself and spend a long time away from home until he could return.
Over time, because of these fights, Archie's writers decided to resign so they would not have any more trouble with Ken Penders.
The stories of this time used to be quite strange, especially since Ken Penders was forcing the existence of Anonymous, Tommy the Turtle, and the Eggman Sons (ADAM and Mecha) that was something that was not being worked on. Anonymous, until he simply disappeared and only came back in the future when Ian Flynn took control) and some of these characters were widely criticized as Tommy the Turtle (Mainly because their stories focused on: Tommy dies, Tommy did not really die, that seems to surprise everyone, Tommy is put in a bad situation, etc.).
However some Arcs really were good as Mobius X Years in the Future, Return to Angel Island and others. However some were quite controversial as involving the Evil Sonic, where he ended up "sleeping" with all the girls friendly to Sonic (Making clear reference to sex) and this while he was disguised as Sonic. That kind of gave a misconception about the characters ... Even in the end showing that he was disguised, some parents did not like that.
After some controversy, Ken Penders ended up having his scripts rejected and he was moving away from the company until the last work that was a colorist of the edition 169 (That by curiosity, finished the plot that he had not finished involving Anonymous... I wonder if he liked what Ian Flynn had written).
That left Penders in a bad way because he had planned many Arcs to create, especially finally finalizing the Arcs he had not finished. Example involves bringing back the character Ian Droid - who had only appeared once in a crossover - and ending up explaining what led to the visions Locke had seen that Aurora had warned.
Anyway, that's when Ken Penders stopped working at Archie. If he did not read the comics written by other members while he himself was working, then now that he would not even read. Sometimes he would comment when someone was talking to Penders on his forum (That's where he talked about his Archie projects and answered fan questions).
However there was something he did not like, Ian Flynn used many of the characters that Penders created and Penders did not get paid for it. Unlike Penders, Ian Flynn always liked to work on old concepts by taking advantage of what was already created instead of creating new characters with each new edition. It got to the point where Ian turned completely unknown characters that had only once appeared throughout the Comic in important characters (Like the Iron Queen and Who the Owl).
In a while after SEGA wanted a game in Sonic RPG, and hired EA Games to create this game. While doing so EA Games thought it would be a good way to introduce comics concepts into games and so used various concepts of Comics in these games. Like the existence of Swatbots, a secret society of echidnas sealed in another dimension, Eggman with real control over the world and things of that sort.
If Penders did not like Archie to create stories involving his characters without paying him, then he would not like EA Games creating games using his concepts, without even talking to him. Penders asked for money for the use of his concepts, but Archie, SEGA and EA Games did not comply. So how did Penders take this to a judicial reason. Penders asked for copyrights on all the comics and characters he created, and he succeeded. With that in hand he fought in justice to win monetary damages from Archie, SEGA and EA Games.
In that Penders debated with SEGA and EA Games, as was Archie that was the main reason soon she got into the matter claiming that Penders had contracted given all rights to Archie, and is to SEGA. However, Archie did not show the documents with the contract she had made with Penders, she says they got lost in a fire. Penders on the other hand said that there was never a formal contract, the maximum being the copyright registration that appears in the comics themselves. (In this case the only characters of the Penders would be Ian Droid and the Particle, both of the crossover with Image Comics. Particle would be a character that Penders would use in his own comic. While Ian Droid would become a big enemy in Comic's future).
Archie could not believe he was going to lose, and then he would tell Ian, "Use the Penders characters any way you want, it will not win." In this Ian Flynn was developing many characters that Penders created mainly those related to Knuckles. He was in the middle of a large Arc involving Knuckles and his kind, but the worst happened. Penders won the lawsuit. Stories that had already been written had to be rewritten by removing the characters that Penders created. Since this could not be so, the crossover with Megaman was used to create a forced reboot and thus fix the problems created by it.
Overall, Penders just wanted three things, the right to get paid for the concepts he created, the right to create stories with the characters he created, and Archie not to use his characters in a way he did not idealize. Penders said that Archie was free to use his characters as long as he had a few requests. Among them all the Equidnas characters would have to be reviewed by the Penders before they appeared in a story to ensure that the story meets Penders' expectations, the future he had originally envisioned in Mobius X Years in the Future should be the canonical and not just a alternative time line, there are also other things that we do not know what was exactly.
SEGA did not want their franchise being controlled by someone like Penders, and then they did not. From the judicial process Penders announced that he would write his own story using the equidnas characters. According to it would be an alternate universe where his characters were after the Super Wave Genesis. In a way, Penders did not want to move away from what Archie had developed and he supported it when fans said "I believe the Super Wave Genesis split the old multiverse into two, one that Archie works now and one that Penders is using" and Penders always says "I faithfully believe that this is a fact"
In time Penders said he would enjoy going back to work for Archie because he realized Comic was not well and he believed he could bring Comic back to his "old success" if his characters returned. So he had planned to return to work for Archie after the 300th issue and would bring all his characters back if SEGA gave Penders the creative freedom he had in the past.
However, because of a commercial failure (The greatest success was being Sonic MegaDrive) of the last years the Comic of Sonic was canceled. I think the biggest blame for this is the exaggeration of time that Ian Flynn gave to develop the Dark Gaia saga, it started as soon as the reboot began ... and lasted until a few issues before Comic ended ... Literally Comic could be canceled and this matter still would not end.
In the meantime Ian Flynn and his friends developed concepts that would be worked out after this great Arc ended, such as those involving Ixis, Chaos Emeralds, Silver, Genesis Portals, and more. This began to be planned ever since it was announced the crossover between SEGA and Capcom and I must say that fact that could increase the level of the comic, but Flynn took a long time to develop this.
So it's like this, Archie lost the contract with SEGA and then IDW took over. After all, Ian Flynn believes that IDW will get the rights to continue both the chronology before reboot and after reboot, because continues the storyline of stories related to them, it's something they usually do. But it is practically impossible for that to occur.
Archie did not use many people who were actually contradicted by her as part of her company in Sonic comics. For this they used more freelance writers and designers, so came a time that many wrote with many designers and the consistency was little.
Overall, in the original comics the most prominent writer was Ken Penders, who developed many of the comic concepts and developed them in a more serious way. For years Ken Penders was creating his own stories within the comic, in doing so he used to only use main characters in the games but would work more on the characters he created in the stories he created. This involved mainly Knuckles, of which Penders created a mythology very different from what the games had created until then (And I must say, the mythology of the Equidnas in Comics is much more interesting than in the games).
Penders always arranged a way to create new characters, mainly to make stories of relatives of the characters that were missing or that the characters themselves did not know they existed. (To be honest, the whole story of Tails and Knuckles that stand out most in the comic, are based especially in this).
And since it was Penders who developed the concept of Multiverse in Comic, then he was also responsible for creating several characters in the multiverse.
One thing that Penders loved was the creative freedom that SEGA and Archie gave him and so he always did his best and created stories that involved controversial issues such as religion, politics, and so on.
But there was one thing that Penders did very badly, if some of his stories are very good in part, others are very bad. Mostly they are practically useless. And yet, Penders did not often share his ideas with other members of production. So sometimes he quarreled with production members because they misused the concepts he had developed, such as Knuckles' story on Sonic 125 of which Penders had different thoughts of how it should have ended (Penders wanted Knuckles had left the Chaos Force because of the space-time distortions of the Quantum Dial, but Karl decided to make a more epic plot full of dangers that would end with Sonic having to sacrifice himself and spend a long time away from home until he could return.
Over time, because of these fights, Archie's writers decided to resign so they would not have any more trouble with Ken Penders.
The stories of this time used to be quite strange, especially since Ken Penders was forcing the existence of Anonymous, Tommy the Turtle, and the Eggman Sons (ADAM and Mecha) that was something that was not being worked on. Anonymous, until he simply disappeared and only came back in the future when Ian Flynn took control) and some of these characters were widely criticized as Tommy the Turtle (Mainly because their stories focused on: Tommy dies, Tommy did not really die, that seems to surprise everyone, Tommy is put in a bad situation, etc.).
However some Arcs really were good as Mobius X Years in the Future, Return to Angel Island and others. However some were quite controversial as involving the Evil Sonic, where he ended up "sleeping" with all the girls friendly to Sonic (Making clear reference to sex) and this while he was disguised as Sonic. That kind of gave a misconception about the characters ... Even in the end showing that he was disguised, some parents did not like that.
After some controversy, Ken Penders ended up having his scripts rejected and he was moving away from the company until the last work that was a colorist of the edition 169 (That by curiosity, finished the plot that he had not finished involving Anonymous... I wonder if he liked what Ian Flynn had written).
That left Penders in a bad way because he had planned many Arcs to create, especially finally finalizing the Arcs he had not finished. Example involves bringing back the character Ian Droid - who had only appeared once in a crossover - and ending up explaining what led to the visions Locke had seen that Aurora had warned.
Anyway, that's when Ken Penders stopped working at Archie. If he did not read the comics written by other members while he himself was working, then now that he would not even read. Sometimes he would comment when someone was talking to Penders on his forum (That's where he talked about his Archie projects and answered fan questions).
However there was something he did not like, Ian Flynn used many of the characters that Penders created and Penders did not get paid for it. Unlike Penders, Ian Flynn always liked to work on old concepts by taking advantage of what was already created instead of creating new characters with each new edition. It got to the point where Ian turned completely unknown characters that had only once appeared throughout the Comic in important characters (Like the Iron Queen and Who the Owl).
In a while after SEGA wanted a game in Sonic RPG, and hired EA Games to create this game. While doing so EA Games thought it would be a good way to introduce comics concepts into games and so used various concepts of Comics in these games. Like the existence of Swatbots, a secret society of echidnas sealed in another dimension, Eggman with real control over the world and things of that sort.
If Penders did not like Archie to create stories involving his characters without paying him, then he would not like EA Games creating games using his concepts, without even talking to him. Penders asked for money for the use of his concepts, but Archie, SEGA and EA Games did not comply. So how did Penders take this to a judicial reason. Penders asked for copyrights on all the comics and characters he created, and he succeeded. With that in hand he fought in justice to win monetary damages from Archie, SEGA and EA Games.
In that Penders debated with SEGA and EA Games, as was Archie that was the main reason soon she got into the matter claiming that Penders had contracted given all rights to Archie, and is to SEGA. However, Archie did not show the documents with the contract she had made with Penders, she says they got lost in a fire. Penders on the other hand said that there was never a formal contract, the maximum being the copyright registration that appears in the comics themselves. (In this case the only characters of the Penders would be Ian Droid and the Particle, both of the crossover with Image Comics. Particle would be a character that Penders would use in his own comic. While Ian Droid would become a big enemy in Comic's future).
Archie could not believe he was going to lose, and then he would tell Ian, "Use the Penders characters any way you want, it will not win." In this Ian Flynn was developing many characters that Penders created mainly those related to Knuckles. He was in the middle of a large Arc involving Knuckles and his kind, but the worst happened. Penders won the lawsuit. Stories that had already been written had to be rewritten by removing the characters that Penders created. Since this could not be so, the crossover with Megaman was used to create a forced reboot and thus fix the problems created by it.
Overall, Penders just wanted three things, the right to get paid for the concepts he created, the right to create stories with the characters he created, and Archie not to use his characters in a way he did not idealize. Penders said that Archie was free to use his characters as long as he had a few requests. Among them all the Equidnas characters would have to be reviewed by the Penders before they appeared in a story to ensure that the story meets Penders' expectations, the future he had originally envisioned in Mobius X Years in the Future should be the canonical and not just a alternative time line, there are also other things that we do not know what was exactly.
SEGA did not want their franchise being controlled by someone like Penders, and then they did not. From the judicial process Penders announced that he would write his own story using the equidnas characters. According to it would be an alternate universe where his characters were after the Super Wave Genesis. In a way, Penders did not want to move away from what Archie had developed and he supported it when fans said "I believe the Super Wave Genesis split the old multiverse into two, one that Archie works now and one that Penders is using" and Penders always says "I faithfully believe that this is a fact"
In time Penders said he would enjoy going back to work for Archie because he realized Comic was not well and he believed he could bring Comic back to his "old success" if his characters returned. So he had planned to return to work for Archie after the 300th issue and would bring all his characters back if SEGA gave Penders the creative freedom he had in the past.
However, because of a commercial failure (The greatest success was being Sonic MegaDrive) of the last years the Comic of Sonic was canceled. I think the biggest blame for this is the exaggeration of time that Ian Flynn gave to develop the Dark Gaia saga, it started as soon as the reboot began ... and lasted until a few issues before Comic ended ... Literally Comic could be canceled and this matter still would not end.
In the meantime Ian Flynn and his friends developed concepts that would be worked out after this great Arc ended, such as those involving Ixis, Chaos Emeralds, Silver, Genesis Portals, and more. This began to be planned ever since it was announced the crossover between SEGA and Capcom and I must say that fact that could increase the level of the comic, but Flynn took a long time to develop this.
So it's like this, Archie lost the contract with SEGA and then IDW took over. After all, Ian Flynn believes that IDW will get the rights to continue both the chronology before reboot and after reboot, because continues the storyline of stories related to them, it's something they usually do. But it is practically impossible for that to occur.
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So basically,**** Ken Penders.
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well then bloody RIP
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I feel enlightened beyond enlightenment right now
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They are all part of the same franchise. It can be said that Game Sonic exists inside the Multiverse Archie, but Archie does not exist in Game Sonic.
So, what's valid for games from Sonic to Generations (Except for Sonic World Adventure and Sonic Chronicles) is valid for Archie post-reboot.
In Archie pre-reboot the games that are canonical would be Sonic 2, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 2006, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Chronicles and Sonic Shuffle.
The other games either received adaptations in Comic, or they only happen in Another Time, Another Place Zone. Some comics (such as Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure and Sonic Chronicle) say that these story games actually occur in Another Time, Another Place Zone, but in the future it suffered a retcon thanks to Encyclopedia and Sonic Universe, making these three games as part of the multiverse Archie Pre-Reboot.
So, what's valid for games from Sonic to Generations (Except for Sonic World Adventure and Sonic Chronicles) is valid for Archie post-reboot.
In Archie pre-reboot the games that are canonical would be Sonic 2, Sonic Adventure 2, Sonic 2006, Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure, Sonic Chronicles and Sonic Shuffle.
The other games either received adaptations in Comic, or they only happen in Another Time, Another Place Zone. Some comics (such as Sonic Rush, Sonic Rush Adventure and Sonic Chronicle) say that these story games actually occur in Another Time, Another Place Zone, but in the future it suffered a retcon thanks to Encyclopedia and Sonic Universe, making these three games as part of the multiverse Archie Pre-Reboot.
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