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Star Trek: Q Upgrade

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Aeyu

VS Battles
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In another thread, I made the point for a series of possible upgrades for the character of Q, who is currently rated at At least Low 2-C due to create alternative timelines in the episode, "All Good Things..." in The Next Generation. However, I propose that he receive a more concrete and solid upgrade, for which I have meticulously outlined (it is far more descriptive than the one used currently.) I could also clarify his other statistics, a la Traveler, as well as provide a better key for this individual.

My reasons for the 2-B upgrade are this: The Megan universe, a completely alternate space-time continuum, which is featured in the Animated Series of the original Star Trek, was re-added to the series' official canon in 2006, following the 1988 denial of its canonicity. If we apply this canon to the the rest of the verse, Q have both individually and as a whole experienced and done everything that is and was possible to be done, as referenced in Voyager (can grab episode if needed) If that is the case, then on some level Q would be able to manipulate that and other universes as well as his own, along with the ability to create alternative timelines and universes, of which there are an infinite or near infinite amount of, as displayed in Parallels, a TNG episode. So under that logic, he might qualify for a 2-B rating, but he never demonstrated any feats such as this, (other than what's displayed below) so it's more of an induction than anything else.

The At least 2-A rating comes from a non-canon, but officially licensed (by Paramount) work, a la the Star Wars Legends series, wherein they are an official part of the series, but are not canon to the main storyline of Star Trek. In the book The Q Continuum, 0 , a being equivalent to Q in power, after hundreds of thousands of years in exile gains power over all of existence, vastly surpassing the entire Q continuum in power, to which Q combines with the nebulaic entity known as the Calamarai to multiply his power by the Calamarain's and become infinitely infinite compared to his current self, allowing him to transcend 0 and instantly defeat/send him back to the void. The 2-A rating would come from the fact that 0 was more powerful than the entire Continuum after his return from exile, which would put him at that level, and becoming infinite compared to his previous self might put Q at a level above 2-A, however this is unknown.

Finally, the entire Q continuum would receive a Likely 2-A ranking due to the entire Q continuum able to easily destroy and remove a Q's powers completely, as well as counter anything they are able to inflict. It was stated in Voyager ("Death Wish") that the Q had literally done everything that is possible to do, and it was also stated that there was never something that they couldn't do (don't worry, I'm not referring to the No Limits Fallacy, I don't think we should upgrade to 1-A based on the fact that the Q continuum was outside of space and time) This would imply that the Q continuum was likely capable of creating multiple alternative universes and timelines, with possibly no limit to the complexity of structures made, since an individual Q was stronger than a being like The Traveler who was already capable of recreating parallel universes and timelines, and was also a higher-dimensional being, but to a lesser extent.


This is a rough draft of a potential new Key, outlining his TNG/VOY form, his form when combined with the Calamarain in the book the Q continuum, and the Q continuum as a whole:


2-B | At least 2-A | Likely 2-A

Multiverse level
(A superior higher dimensional being. Capable of effortlessly creating parallel timelines and likely other universes to a much higher degree than The Traveler, a comparable, but inferior being who was already capable of such feats. Capable of rewriting the constants and physical laws in the universe with merely a snap of his fingers, and thus should be able to warp space-time to a level where it could destroy even multiple universes, as at least 1 or more exist connected to the current space-time through "creation points", and timelines, of which it was shown there were a countless amount (TNG: Parallels) Capable of traveling to regions outside of the known space-time continuum, with the Q continuum existing in a parallel reality outside of the universal totality. Capable of destroying or creating any known thing at a whim. Even similar beings with total or near total control of the space-time continuum are powerless before even the weakest individual Q. Like Travelers, they are capable of passing their powers down to individuals they deem worthy, though it is not a gradual effect like the abilities of the Travelers.) | At least Multiverse level+ (Combined his power with that of the Calamarain, leading to a being that described as "beyond infinity," explained as two infinite beings combining into a third, infinitely superior one. Able to instantly defeat a being superior to the entire Q continuum, 0, who could affect the entirety of existence, which consists of countless, transfinite timelines, multiple universes, and endless possibilities with absolutely no effort whatsoever. Vastly superior to the rest of the Q continuum.) | Likely Multiverse level+ (It has been said that the Q Continuum have done every possible thing in existence at least once, which would include all the above mentioned feats multiplied to an infinite degree. Infinitely superior to a single Q, even when that Q is vastly stronger than their peers.)

(Edit: With time I can provide scans, if further clarification is needed. Additionally, he should receive Mind Manipulation and Fusionism under his powers and abilities section.)
 
This seems too dependent on alternative canon versions for my taste. We do not know if they apply to the original continuity version.

However, I would appreciate further staff input.
 
Only the 1st and 3rd keys are applicable to the TV series (of which there are two which feature this character/characters); the 2nd one is part of an alternative canon (expanded universe) only.
 
Well, you can ask Azathoth to reply here if you wish.
 
However, I would personally prefer to only scale from his feats within the TV series itself.
 
Could a separate profile be created for his technically non-canon, but officially licensed counterpart? A 2-B | Likely 2-A rating could still work within context; the Likely 2-A rating doesn't come from being comparable to 0/book characters (though they are strong and might warrant pages in their own right, such as the character of Them, who might potentially even be High 2-A)
 
We only allow that for alternative versions of characters that are both very notable and very different in storyline from the main versions.
 
I am not sure if the reasons for 2-B are concrete enough to provide an actual rating. Seems fine for "At least Low 2-C, likely higher", though.

"Likely 2-A" for the whole continuum sounds fine, I suppose.
 
What about 2-C, extrapolating off the fact that The Traveler was already capable of creating parallel timelines/universes to some small degree, and Q was vastly stronger than him, with the Megan Universe being canon factoring into that? (He created 3 alternate timelines in "All Good Things...")

And I agree on the second part. What do you think about the reasoning?
 
2-C seems fine.

The reasoning is solid, though a little bit more should probably be added. Maybe like when the Q built weapons capable of damaging the very fabric of subspace and killing other Q, affecting normal universes as a side effect of doing so?
 
I am perfectly fine with the definitions being changed/modified. I can provide scans if absolutely needed, but Memory Alpha is generally pretty good with canon (the site is entirely based off of canon)

That could very well factor in, since subspace was definitely connected to space-time, the Traveler was able to affect subspace on a universal level (he took them to an outside realm/edge of the universe) and Q fighting in an extra-dimensional realm outside of the universe were causing subspace damage to multiple parts of the universe (causing supernovas and the like at random.)

I think that sounds like a good additional reasoning. (what you said)

Also, if (individual) Q becomes 2-C, then the Continuum being 2-A for being infinitely above that makes even more sense.
 
If Azathoth is fine with 2-C, then so am I. Are there an infinite number of Q, since the continuum is infinitely above individual members?
 
> In another thread, I made the point for a series of possible upgrades for the character of Q, who is currently rated at At least Low 2-C due to create alternative timelines in the episode, "All Good Things..." in The Next Generation.


It is debatable because it is possible that these timelines already existed Q just teleported Picard.

Also we know the future already exists, we know about guests from the future.


They best feat of what Q already has done - he is durable enough to tank the Big Bang without a scratch.


> alternative timelines and universes, of which there are an infinite or near infinite amount of, as displayed in Parallels


You should prove that these timelines/universes have been created by Q.


> So under that logic, he might qualify for a 2-B rating


For being 2-B Q should be able to destroy 1000s universes by 1 attack. But he hasn't done something on that scale.



> Q had literally done everything that is possible to do, and it was also stated that there was never something that they couldn't do


This thing is too vague.


> Q was stronger than a being like The Traveler

What are the best feats of the Traveler? He shouldn't be 2-C lol. If he can travel to other universes it doesn't mean he can create it.

> This is a rough draft of a potential new Key, outlining his TNG/VOY form, his form when combined with the Calamarain in the book the Q continuum, and the Q continuum as a whole:


Books are non-canon.


> Able to instantly defeat a being superior to the entire Q continuum, 0, who could affect the entirety of existence, which consists of countless, transfinite timelines, multiple universes, and endless possibilities with absolutely no effort whatsoever.


Non-canon again.
 
Antvasima said:
If Azathoth is fine with 2-C, then so am I. Are there an infinite number of Q, since the continuum is infinitely above individual members?
No, we have seen ~25 members of the Q Continuum and their leaders have been defeated by Voyager's crew (it is PIS/CIS but it is canon anyway).


The current Q profile is nice. We shouldn't make him stronger. Actually even universal level of Q is debatable. There are many people on forums.spacebattles.com who disagree even with universal level. They think that Q survived the Big Bang because hax/his nature, not because of durability.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
2-C seems fine.
The reasoning is solid, though a little bit more should probably be added. Maybe like when the Q built weapons capable of damaging the very fabric of subspace and killing other Q, affecting normal universes as a side effect of doing so?
They can become mortal and in fact be killed. Damaging subspace scares them.


COLONEL Q: I'm afraid the time for diplomacy has passed, madam. If we don't end this war quickly, the damage to subspace will be irreversible.
 
Aeyu said:
What about 2-C, extrapolating off the fact that The Traveler was already capable of creating parallel timelines/universes to some small degree
By that logic anyone who have a time machine is 2-C
 
@Jockey-1337

Okay. Thank you for helping out by evaluating this.
 
@Jockey-1337

This is some epic downplay, frankly.

Also we know the future already exists

Except for that is not the actual future that happened, nor were those possibilities that ever occured otherwise. Data mentions in Parallels that the universe can fracture any time new phenomena is triggered, but Q created 3 unrelated timelines which were NOT connected to the main one, and subsequently helped to collapse those possibilities (Picard didn't know if his plan worked, and that really wasn't the point) Also, Picard "collapsed," those three other timelines with Q's help, strongly implying that creating and destroying said phenomena was easy for him to do.

"I was the one who got you into it. A directive from the Continuum. The part about the helping hand though...was my idea."

Prove he created them

Even if he didn't (which he did, he literally said so) he was capable of collapsing them completely with no effort at all. No powers of this sort ever showed him fatigued. That whole sequence was him testing Picard to see if he could use his mind to think in dimensions outside of the typical three-dimensional ones, which proved to the Continuum that Humanity had potential still.

"For that one brief moment, you were open to options you had never considered."

This is too vague

As stated, this comes from the Voyager episode "Death Wish," wherein Quinn literally outlines this. As I've said, I can provide scans if needed.

Best feats of the Traveler

Affecting space-time on universal levels, creating parallel universes and timelines. Q is vastly superior to those kinds of feats. And before you say "lel it was a pocket dimension" Not only is it mentioned that the Traveler is from a higher dimension, that he has perfect mastery over warp fields and time and space with his mind, but the parallel universe was full-sized. It collapsed, and he recreated it with Wesley using his powers (even though it collapsed again)

Non-cano

I outlined this. They may be non-canon, but belong to officially licensed works by Paramount (TNG Pocket Series)

Current profile is nice

It has a blurry picture, vague reasoning for its AP and other stats, syntax errors and is generally sparse and uninteresting.

Many forums on Spacebattles

I've seen these threads, who generally want to downplay Q and the Continuum as being only a high-level galactic civ, when they literally exist completely outside of time and space and are directly stated to exist on a higher dimension.

They can be killed/scared of Q weapons

Just because they're scared of these weapons doesn't mean they still don't qualify for the tier I mentioned. Those weapons were capable of affecting space and time. Just because an explosion doesn't destroy multiple universes doesn't mean it can't have a 2-C level of AP. Q strongly hinted to Janeway that she would cease to exist in every possible manner if she were hit with one of those weapons. Damaging subspace (directly linked to space-time) scares them, but doesn't kill or affect them in any meaningful way. They didn't care that they were creating hundreds of thousands of supernovae.

By that logic anyone with a time-machine is 2-C

Except for the fact that he created and collapsed those possibilities. If Q are capable of doing anything they wish (within the context of that verse) and there are at least 2 universes in canon, being able to affect multiple timelines and being infinitely > the Traveler who was already at such a level (also is a higher dimensional being, btw) there is no reason to assume that they are not 2-C; it lines up with their current AP and in my opinion, is actually a safer low end. The Continuum at a whole could be Likely 2-A because if they have done literally everything there is to do at least once on every capacity, and the ST verse has been shown to have countless, possibly infinite timelines and other universes (TNG: Parallels) then they would definitely qualify for this level. Just because ScrewAttack thinks Goku is a 5-A because he hasn't shown feats like blowing up the entire universe/space-time continuum doesn't make him 5-A.
 
Some more abilities could be added to the pages at least.

A stronger Q may nullify a weaker one if I may not mistaken them all to be equal?

Now for those that are bestowed with Q powers do they fully scale?
 
@Crzer07

I'm for this as well. The page is sparse to say the least.

And that's true, but mostly the nullification comes from the Continuum itself, although one high on the totem pole can restore another Q's powers if they're taken away, so yes those with Q powers fully scale no matter what.
 
Well, I do not mind a 2-C Q. What I am uncertain about is a 2-A Q Continuum.
 
As I said, I can bend with the definitions used. A 2-B/At least 2-B upgrade might make more sense from a lower end, seeing as the other timelines and universes were never shown explicitly to be infinite, just uncountable, and the Trek verse is generally based off our our own cosmology, so it would be more likely that 10^500 universes would be more along the lines of what could exist in theory according to that verse's cosmology, give or take.
 
Did the Q Continuum create all the alternative timelines of the multiverse?
 
That's a tricky topic, because on one hand, you could say yes, and another you could say no. They *have* done such a thing by merit of literally doing everything that can possibly be done within the context of the TV-verse (The Continuum as a whole has) but it is unknown if they created the potentiality for all of these universes/parallel timelines to exist in the first place. When Janeway traveled to the Continuum (outside of space and time) it was mentioned that it was in a complete state of static, because nothing new needed to be done since they had simply experienced and seen all that was possible to see or do. This is the fundamental reason why Quinn wanted to commit suicide in the first place, which he found himself unable to do.
 
Well, I think that rating them as 2-B based on "they have done everything that can be done", without specific examples, seems too speculative.
 
On the other hand, if there are, for example, thousands of Q, their collective power would be 2-B anyway.
 
Maybe a possibly 2-B rating then? Since it's more of an inductive logic than a deductive one? This would apply to the above mentioned feats of creating alternate timelines and creating parallel universes.

(Edit: Also, there are at least thousands of Q. It was never specified how large the Continuum actually was, but it had at least thousands of members (there were at least this many "footsoldiers" in the interpretation Janeway saw of a Q fight, which took the form of a civil war battle. I think, then, that they do reasonably qualify for 2-B.)
 
Okay. 2-C for Q, due to collapsing several timelines into one, and 2-B for the continuum, due to sheer numbers, seems acceptable then, but I do not want the speculation about "having done everything" as justification within the profile.
 
It should also be mentioned that the Continuum's power as a whole was qualitatively greater than a single Q; the whole Continuum could easily nullify other Q's powers without any hesitation or resistance, and were able to prevent Quinn from being able to commit suicide.
 
Okay, the speculation need not be added, then. Could it also be added in their profiles that they can pass their powers onto other individuals (similar to the Traveler?) Would this also factor into his/their AP?
 
You can mention it as a power, but not as AP.
 
Okay, that makes sense. Would I be able to edit his profile, or will it have to wait?
 
I will unlock the profile for you now. Tell me here when you are done.
 
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