Surviving inhuman amounts of heat, electricity, cold and such

[SamanPatou]

If a character, regardless of their AP, survives (but still takes damage) from an elemental attack (like fire, heat, cold, electricity and so on) that would normally kill a common human, would it be enough to grant them a resistance, even if minor or limited?

This question came out because despite one's durability, apparently characters should still be affected in the same way by these things as normal humans, but very often we see them being hit by huge walls of fire, lighting explosions, frozen solid etc.. without really dying (while a human should) but instead taking more or less damage.

But with this way of thinking, hundreds of characters from games, anime and etc. which are superior or fight elemental users, would have several resistances.
Take for examples characters that fight Natsu from Fairy Tail, Pokémon fighting against each other or all Dragon Ball characters that are stronger than Roshi (who uses electricity) and similar things.

Do we consider such things as actual resistances, worthy to be listed (which already happens with some profiles) or do we overlook this, just like we do with the same elements having destructive force as if they were physical and similar other cases?

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

good question following

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Normally, characters with superhuman durability actually shouldn't be affected too much by environmental hazards such as heat or cold. By newton's 3rd law, and friction kinetic energy, the human body is exerting at least as much heat as it is force. DontTalkDT explained in detail that whever kinetic energy is in motion, at least 50% of it becomes thermal energy rather than overpressure. Another reason for this is because the combined kinetic energy of all atoms and molecules is pretty much always at least as fast as the the body moving. For example, if someone threw an iron ball at 500 meters per second, all the iron atoms would logically be moving at least that fast during that launch. Same with cold, whenever someone is using, they produce a lot more heat than most environments even super cold and windy places can extract thermal energy via conductivity. And freezing someone to absolute zero temperatures for example basically requires an infinite amount of conductive intensity; or a wave that's an infinite number of watts basically. But those feats are similar to black hole feats in which we often consider that durability negation rather than High 3-A tiers.

Surviving an outer space was agreed to no longer be resistance to extreme cold for similar reasons. Since while it is AZ in outer space, there is 0 air or conductivity, meaning there is no actual electromagnetic wave extracting thermal energy from the body. And in order to successfully freeze someone, the conductive wave needs to extract thermal energy faster than their body produces; which superhuman characters produce a lot. Heat capacity also effects the energy required to raise or lower the temperature by a degree, and the object in question also needs to have heavy amounts of fusion energy in order to have such as high heat capacity to begin with.

I'm not too knowledgeable on electricity's full details, but the paralysis inducement would require electricity resistance to resist. And strong characters being effected by temperature should basically be treated as bad writing save for characters who have a kryptonite type weakness for certain elements. But resistance to heat should usually be important for characters who can withstand more heat than they can blunt force trauma. For example, logically, characters who can withstand 10 megajoules of blunt force trauma can also do the same for the amount of thermal energy, but just because someone can withstand 10 megajoules of thermal energy wouldn't by default mean they can withstand that much blunt force trauma.

 

[Antoniofer]

Since durability does not relate to resistivity of the body, nor the freezing point of the blood and such, the character would suffer the same consequences than someone of their constitution and made of flesh would suffer, unless their feats suggests otherwise. Heat is treated different here, as its considered AP, so a character not surviving heat hazards that does not "fit" with its AP its either considered an anti-feat, outlier or a weakness.

 

[Armorchompy]

is that a yes or a no

 

[Antoniofer]

is that a yes or a no

It always reduces to if people agree or not in that thread, since is not ruled.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

DontTalkDT is usually the best person to ask, but he's often super busy nowadays. Otherwise, @Executor_N0 @Therefir and @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan also usually have great sense of judgements iirc.

 

[Armorchompy]

Normally, characters with superhuman durability actually shouldn't be affected too much by environmental hazards such as heat or cold. By newton's 3rd law, and friction kinetic energy, the human body is exerting at least as much heat as it is force. DontTalkDT explained in detail that whever kinetic energy is in motion, at least 50% of it becomes thermal energy rather than overpressure. Another reason for this is because the combined kinetic energy of all atoms and molecules is pretty much always at least as fast as the the body moving. For example, if someone threw an iron ball at 500 meters per second, all the iron atoms would logically be moving at least that fast during that launch. Same with cold, whenever someone is using, they produce a lot more heat than most environments even super cold and windy places can extract thermal energy via conductivity.

Also this is just me but considering most tier 6 or whatever character don't produce enough heat to melt the area around them every time they get in a fight, I doubt this logic works, it's like getting speed from KE or something, it makes sense IRL but it's not consistent with the great majority of fictiion

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Or it's more specifically the character absorbs their own heat and their opponent most of the time. Also, another difference is speed and AP function more in the 0.5 * mass * (Speed)^2 = AP where as Newton's 3rd law is Durability => Striking Strength. We accept the latter but not the former. But Heat vs blunt force trauma is more or less another case of Heat being used => Blunt force trauma being used. Then again, there are arguments where AP is actually => speed if other types of energy such as heat and the like are factored.

DT was going to make a thread explaining the details at some point but prefers not to be pestered about it.

 

[Armorchompy]

They absorb 100% the heat? That's kinda weird, but eh

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

More like 50% with the other just going to one specific location

 

[Antoniofer]

Yeah, not sure if accept that an strong character will simply generate certain amount of heat with no kind of proof, be still or fighting.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

DT and KLOL have mentioned otherwise, and Agnaa and Spinosaurus also agree with them last I heard.

 

[Armorchompy]

I mean heat spreads to everything close to what is heated, so part of it should go in every direction no matter what.

 

[Antoniofer]

We can't just grant character to capability to generate heat, most of time character (brawler, to be more accurate) wouldn't leave sign of burning on whatever they strike, nor they increases the environmental temperature.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I need to go to work now, but that's basically just a repeat of the Destructive Capacity vs Attack Potency argument.

 

[Antoniofer]

This is not an AoE vs DC argument, here people is granting character powers that they haven't showed before. Even if the character does not need to melt everything around, they would melt everything they make contact with, leaving burning remains, chared surfaces, melting or even vaporizing stuff (if possible).

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

This reminds me of the end of Sonic 3 and Knuckles where Dr Eggman electrocutes Knux with inhumane amounts of electricity to the point Knux's skeleton was clearly visible (keep in mind Knux just received a beatdown from Sonic/Tails prior to getting electrocuted) while Knux was clearly hurt by it and even briefly knocked out, he got up a few seconds afterwards to guide Sonic/Tails to Sky Sanctuary Zone (albeit Knux was clearly exhausted).

Is this another example of minor/limited resistance to electricity?

Also I believe my example as well as the above mentioned ones, are good pain tolerance feats tbh.

 

[KLOL506]

DT actually has plans to tackle this topic in a much larger and more coherent thread with even more points so I don't think this is the right time for such a thread like this to be made. That's all I have to say regarding this matter.

 

[Armorchompy]

fair 'nuff