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Tekken changes and additions

Lidia and Heihachi fight literal shadow/darkness versions of Devil Kazuya and T7 Heihachi in their respective battles, supporting NPI further for the cast




They don't look super intangible but at least they're smokey, so you could possibly justify elemental NPI for those two - but that's a different type.
Asking for Kazumi to have a distinct 3D model to signify her as a ghost is ridiculous, she is canonically dead and her only reason being part of the roster is due to being a ghost according to Harada, which characters whom known her point out how its unbelievable or didnt expect to see her again, let alone if she was physical in nature, if the player beats her, she should lie down normally, instead she disappears as a bunch of light particles
Why is it ridiculous? The Kazuya and Heihachi clones had distinct 3D models to show they were made of shadows. You're being inconsistent. In videogames form follows function and if we see a ghost that by all means looks tangible it's a reasonable conclusion to say that it might just be tangible.
There is no written standard on intangibility or incorporeality pages to suggest they need to show something for their nature, former says on Immaterial type that ghosts or characters existing as just souls being examples, latter says incorporeal beings can appear in many different forms by their choice and they dont have a defined form
You don't need written standards, it's common sense that an ability needs to be proven to be on profiles.
Killer Instinct has NPI across the entire cast just because they can interact with Jago ghost, Darkstalkers has NPI across the entire cast for characters like Bishamon, a samurai in armor which is said to be made of souls, yet gravity and whatever other reasons presented here applies all the same to others
I don't know either verse and the abilities may very well be wrong. However this isn't a KI or Darkstalkers CRT.
 
I am also fine with implementing the elemental NPI for smoke based individuals
 
They don't look super intangible but at least they're smokey, so you could possibly justify elemental NPI for those two - but that's a different type.
....
Why is it ridiculous? The Kazuya and Heihachi clones had distinct 3D models to show they were made of shadows.
T8 compared to T7 had budget, which shows by how many distinct 3D models they gave characters across all the game in former then latter
You're being inconsistent. In videogames form follows function and if we see a ghost that by all means looks tangible it's a reasonable conclusion to say that it might just be tangible.
Ghosts by definition and whats written on the pages pointed says they qualify for not being physical
You don't need written standards, it's common sense that an ability needs to be proven to be on profiles.
Unless there is a note or standard that says somewhere ghosts need evidence of such, things that arent written dont hold any significance, revisions to accept or reject something has to follow standards written down,

Not imaginary rules which the wiki does not have at all for it, especially when Reiner pointed out something written down which abides the statement at hand
I don't know either verse and the abilities may very well be wrong. However this isn't a KI or Darkstalkers CRT.

You agreed for KI to have NPI based on Jago capable to fight as a ghost here....you reject Tekken for fighting a ghost of a character killed in canon...
 

You agreed for KI to have NPI based on Jago capable to fight as a ghost here....you reject Tekken for fighting a ghost of a character killed in canon...
No he didn't.

This either means he is still somewhat physical, or every character in KI2 has Non-Physical Interaction. Personally I'm leaning more towards the first option.
Directly from OP. That it was later agreed by others as a compromise to give Jago non corporeal NPI as a possibly (funny enough, because you argued it extensively) is a different matter.

Besides that, opinions change. Stop bringing what other verses do or do not, please. Focus on if Tekken qualifies or not.
 
And that one had
I watched the video myself, and I think incorporeality is good to go. His physical body is left behind and his spirit form is represented by a transparent sprite of himself so that blatantly looks like a spirit form move to me. As for how Jago can touch others and vice versa, is there another feat of NPI in the original KI games that we can at least scale this to? Hopefully it's consistent with this one...
And even with that they got a possibly because of a lack of consistency even though that would count as a relatively solid feat with transparency being the reason for said incorporality

Not the same as this in any manner
 
I literally said a possibly is fine, they aren't clearly shown to be intangible and still pretty clearly stick to the form of a human being, it's the best you're getting.
Ghosts by definition and whats written on the pages pointed says they qualify for not being physical
"By definition" whose definition? They're not REAL. 100 ghosts from 100 different works of fiction will behave differently. By that logic you should be arguing she's invisible too - which she clearly isn't.
Unless there is a note or standard that says somewhere ghosts need evidence of such, things that arent written dont hold any significance, revisions to accept or reject something has to follow standards written down,
We tend to add abilities only if they're justified rather than because they might possibly make sense. You haven't proven they're intangible in the slightest
You agreed for KI to have NPI based on Jago capable to fight as a ghost here....you reject Tekken for fighting a ghost of a character killed in canon...
No he didn't.
And that one had
LMAO. Yeah turns out this is a completely different case, huh?
 
No he didn't.
I looked at the whole thread, no such comment to have ever disagreed as you claim, so its a lie, only one person called it out all the way and that was EliminatorVenom
Besides that, opinions change. Stop bringing what other verses do or do not, please. Focus on if Tekken qualifies or not.
Then I wanna hear an actual argument why Kazumi cant have it, not things like gravity or anything of such nature, we talking about a 1v1 video game where all characters are coded to be similar regardless of what canon explainations say
 
I looked at the whole thread, no such comment to have ever disagreed as you claim, so its a lie, only one person called it out all the way and that was EliminatorVenom
What lie? The OP itself didn't fully agreed with giving the NPI, Armor commented it made sense. At a baseline, the assumption should be he agreed with was said in the OP. Others later agreed with giving it a possibly.
Besides that, opinions change. Stop bringing what other verses do or do not, please. Focus on if Tekken qualifies or not.
Then I wanna hear an actual argument why Kazumi cant have it, not things like gravity or anything of such nature, we talking about a 1v1 video game where all characters are coded to be similar regardless of what canon explainations say
That you disagree with their arguments is fair, just as much as they can have a reason to disagree. Stuff like portrayal is part of it. But the actual argument has been quite simple; they don't show properties of intangibility despite being ghosts. It is as simple as that.
 
"By definition" whose definition? They're not REAL. 100 ghosts from 100 different works of fiction will behave differently.
Ghost: an apparition of a dead person which is believed to appear or become manifest to the living

Similar:
spectre

phantom

wraith

spirit

soul

shadow

By that logic you should be arguing she's invisible too - which she clearly isn't.
She has invisibility in her profile for instances of doing so with Heihachi in the flashback for your info...yet even then invisibility is debatable irl, with people commenting they seen ghosts or that they appear in photos when the eye cant, intangibility has no such instance
 
She has invisibility in her profile for instances of doing so with Heihachi in the flashback for your info
So she can turn invisible and float the way ghosts actually do... Why are we assuming that she isn't just taking material form to fight again? If she has the ability to actually become incorporeal as a distinct thing then clearly she's not that way all the time.
 
So she can turn invisible and float the way ghosts actually do... Why are we assuming that she isn't just taking material form to fight again? If she has the ability to actually become incorporeal as a distinct thing then clearly she's not that way all the time.
Something something....the one Heihachi fights here was when Kazumi was still alive and in a flashback from the past, unlike the one in the roster we are told is a ghost, which Kazuya, Heihachi and Akuma question her presence when she is meant to be dead.....
 
So the "invisibility in her profile" is completely unrelated to being a ghost and there wasn't a reason to bring it up?
 
Since I had to dig up several stuff, cuz apparently a ghost cant be just taken like the general one the definition does by google, I will go over several things

1) Jinpachi is said to be have powers of a revengeful ghost, which is what possesses him in the game, which even last year Harada talked in details, once again, by stating its a vengeful spirit, Devil Jin in his tekken 5 ending absorbs that and adds it to himself, which in the profile its accepted as soul absorbtion

2) Jun had to fight the spirit/ghost of Devil so it didnt get Jin soul, whom was in her belly at the time, Kazuya at this point in time was dead, 15 years later when the events of the next game kickstarted, Devil is once again showing up, taking over Jin like he wanted back then, Kazuya in his Tekken 4 ending absorbs that part of him, which in the profile its accepted as soul absorbtion as well, you literally see visually its incorporeal

3) Azazel was just a spirit, which needed a physical body via Jin and Kazuya, even after Jin kills him, his spirit/ghost still existed, which Zafina had to seal it in her body, which in T7 and T8 Azazel makes her arm change into his, taking possession of her, Kazuya even pulls his spirit/ghost out of her

4) Claudio, a literal exorcist uses his power to force the spirit/ghost that possesses a child

So not only ghosts/spirits exist in the series, especially of dead people, but also either they show possessing others or show up by themselves, meaning they have no physical body and I pointed earlier last page, Kazumi when she is beaten by the player character, she fades as light particles or whatever you wanna call that, she isnt a physical being, ghosts in the series are treated as non corporeal entities, exactly like your average ghost does by the dictionary "the spirit of a dead person"

So those of you beating around the bush about semantics of a what a ghost nature is based on no standard or note of it existing on the wiki should drop it already
 
Since I had to dig up several stuff, cuz apparently a ghost cant be just taken like the general one the definition does by google, I will go over several things

1) Jinpachi is said to be have powers of a revengeful ghost, which is what possesses him in the game, which even last year Harada talked in details, once again, by stating its a vengeful spirit, Devil Jin in his tekken 5 ending absorbs that and adds it to himself, which in the profile its accepted as soul absorbtion

2) Jun had to fight the spirit/ghost of Devil so it didnt get Jin soul, whom was in her belly at the time, Kazuya at this point in time was dead, 15 years later when the events of the next game kickstarted, Devil is once again showing up, taking over Jin like he wanted back then, Kazuya in his Tekken 4 ending absorbs that part of him, which in the profile its accepted as soul absorbtion as well, you literally see visually its incorporeal

3) Azazel was just a spirit, which needed a physical body via Jin and Kazuya, even after Jin kills him, his spirit/ghost still existed, which Zafina had to seal it in her body, which in T7 and T8 Azazel makes her arm change into his, taking possession of her, Kazuya even pulls his spirit/ghost out of her

4) Claudio, a literal exorcist uses his power to force the spirit/ghost that possesses a child

So not only ghosts/spirits exist in the series, especially of dead people, but also either they show possessing others or show up by themselves, meaning they have no physical body and I pointed earlier last page, Kazumi when she is beaten by the player character, she fades as light particles or whatever you wanna call that, she isnt a physical being, ghosts in the series are treated as non corporeal entities, exactly like your average ghost does by the dictionary "the spirit of a dead person"

So those of you beating around the bush about semantics of a what a ghost nature is based on no standard or note of it existing on the wiki should drop it already
Ghosts are literally spirits in Tekken verse. especially if you know Japanese History/Mythology, this shouldn’t even be questioned as the lore shows it.
 
I was asked to comment here. I skimmed the thread. I don't really know Tekken.

What Reiner04 has said seems reasonable, although the matter of NPI for the whole cast seems contentious, so I'd at most approve a Possibly for the NPI, as well as Possibly Elemental NPI, based on the dark form versions of characters,

It seems like a big point of contention is the notion of Kazumi the Spirit being intangible.
Does she have any cutscenes or story content beyond the cutscene(s) in this video linked earlier?:


She's apparently a final boss.

On one hand, she turns into light particles on defeat, floats around, & can summon her tiger, which is seemingly also dead.
Turning into light particles is often associated with supernatural beings, as it is not an ordinary way to perish.
On the other hand, in her defeat animation, when she loses her strength to continue struggling to reach outwards, her body audibly thuds on the ground. Inconsiderate authors?

There's another possible point of authorial intent to continue: Especially if she's a final boss, in a fighting game, it would not serve gameplay well to make her intangible, & it'd probably be awkward & troublesome for them to have categorized which attacks can hit a ghost or not, not to mention skewed what is likely a valuable competitive scene.
So it's quite possible she isn't intangible in gameplay for gameplay-related reasons.

Hence, my asking: Is there other canonical cutscene content or statements regarding Kazumi? Who & what does she interact with?
 
Hence, my asking: Is there other canonical cutscene content or statements regarding Kazumi? Who & what does she interact with?
Outside Harada stating she is a ghost and characters with unique dialogue with her pointing out how its shocking and unbelievable given her death, there isnt much else as far as I am aware

Other fighting games whom have NPI for their reasons, doesnt even have as much info in terms of any cutscenes or WoG explanations and its handed to their entire cast, just cuz specific characters arent physical like a living being and they all can interact with them as normal

EDIT: Well I double checked a bit around, an official artbook also calls her a ghost as well
fe9651351fce746142be5fad8033e36e1e8d6525.jpg
 
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