Tensura Web Novel Revision : Bring Back Rimuru's Non-Duality Type 1

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

According to this thread, Rimuru's Non-Duality Type 1 was removed due to the author's comments about Veldanava existing at the same time as the world.

This comment was posted on November 7 2013. Meanwhile, the feat used for Non-Duality Type 1 which also states the beginning of Veldanava is Chapter 248 which was released on July 6 2014.

It's certain that Fuse-sensei changed his mind about Veldanava. It could also be said that the Great Holy Spirit is Veldanava itself because the Great Holy Spirit and Veldanava both existed in nothingness and created everything, including the Great Spirit of Light and the Great Spirit of Darkness (Yin and Yang).

It's also funny when Catpija said that and they quickly closed the thread.

So, Non-Duality Type 1 Rimuru needs to be returned for the same reasons as the previous thread about upgrading Rimuru Non-duality Type 1.

 

[Mizuki67]

So its uncertain

 

[Robo432343]

Author statements aren't even allowed on this wiki without further context

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Author statements aren't even allowed on this wiki without further context

That's why I'm surprised how CRT was accepted

 

[StrymULTRA]

I mean if the author changed their mind on it, then of course?

 

[Mizuki67]

Author statements are allowed who told you that?
What's your backup claim towards Veldanava being Holy spirit?
We need strong evident proof
If you read @Jozaysmith? Thread there's multiple flaws with rimuru having what he had
You for one @Lesser_Goddess_Alexia manipulated the translations, because first the multiverse didn't end at EOST, it was a simple heat death that went on with the universe expansion rate, secondly if that's the case How else is rimuru getting ND?, one might think its "turn null creating them", is there any evidence??
You are only speculating at this point, we needed to set things straight

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

You for one @Lesser_Goddess_Alexia manipulated the translations

I'm not the one who translated it, lolz.

 

[Mizuki67]

I'm not the one who translated it, lolz.

Sorry about that then, my apologies.
But its right to know the translations were misguided

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Author statements are allowed who told you that?
What's your backup claim towards Veldanava being Holy spirit?
We need strong evident proof
If you read @Jozaysmith? Thread there's multiple flaws with rimuru having what he had
You for one @Lesser_Goddess_Alexia manipulated the translations, because first the multiverse didn't end at EOST, it was a simple heat death that went on with the universe expansion rate, secondly if that's the case How else is rimuru getting ND?, one might think its "turn null creating them", is there any evidence??
You are only speculating at this point, we needed to set things straight

However, the Great Spirit still disappeared when the world ended, which Ramiris clearly said

世界は、相互に干渉しあい、やがて安定する。

　これが、大いなる８柱の大精霊。

　そして、世界に光が満ち、闇に覆われて。

　新たな精霊達が誕生し、消えていく。

　生と死。

　世界がいつか終わりを迎えるその時まで……”

DeepL :

The world interpenetrates and eventually stabilizes.

　This is the Great Eight Pillars of the Great Spirit.

　Then the world is filled with light and covered with darkness.

　New spirits are born and disappear.

　Life and death.

　Until that time when the world will one day come to an end. ......"

GoogleTL :

The world will eventually become stable through mutual interference.

These are the eight great spirits.

Then, the world was filled with light and covered in darkness.

New spirits are born and disappear.

Life and death.

Until the world comes to an end...”

The Great Spirit existed until the world ended

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

What's your backup claim towards Veldanava being Holy spirit?

This (GoogleTL) :

“The void is full of power.

This is the Holy Spirit. The great Holy Spirit is a source of power that simply exists.

And this (GuroTL) :

That was the world that Veldanava had created.
He, who was alone in the empty space, couldn’t bear the solitude.

If Veldanava is not a Holy Spirit, then he must be greater than a Holy Spirit. Because Veldanava is the only being in Nothingness

 

[Mizuki67]

However, the Great Spirit still disappeared when the world ended, which Ramiris clearly said

DeepL :

GoogleTL :

The Great Spirit existed until the world ended

The world ended in reference to this is all of reality
There was another post of author fuse that a fan ask
"Did yuuki send rimuru out of the multiverse" author replied "only the end of Time, the space-time warp ability isn't all that powerful"
The end of time here is still the universe, however the universe already reaching its time limit
The author used normal laws of physics to describe the importance of this

This (GoogleTL) :

And this (GuroTL) :

If Veldanava is not a Holy Spirit, then he must be greater than a Holy Spirit. Because Veldanava is the only being in Nothingness

This makes tiny sense however, nothingness and an empty universe is different, we don't know what exactly was being talked about in Veldanava case

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

The world ended in reference to this is all of reality
There was another post of author fuse that a fan ask
"Did yuuki send rimuru out of the multiverse" author replied "only the end of Time, the space-time warp ability isn't all that powerful"
The end of time here is still the universe, however the universe already reaching its time limit
The author used normal laws of physics to describe the importance of this

It came from Ramiris' explanation of the Great Spirit. She explained from the beginning of the existence of the Great Spirit until the end (the end of the world). This explains that the Great Spirits (Including Light and Darkness) only exist until the end of the world.

This makes tiny sense however, nothingness and an empty universe is different, we don't know what exactly was being talked about in Veldanava case

Since when its Empty Universe?

Maybe I will use Raw and DeepL as the source

世界は残酷だが、全てを与えてくれる。

　それが、ヴェルダナーヴァの創造した世界だ。

　彼は、虚無の空間において独り、その孤独に耐えかねた。

　だからこそ、退屈を紛らわせる為に世界を生み出したのだ。

DeepL :

The world is cruel, but it gives us everything.

　That is the world Verdanava created.

　He could not bear the loneliness of being alone in the void.

　That is why he created the world to relieve his boredom.

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

It's certain that Fuse-sensei changed his mind about Veldanava.

It does seem to be that, given the time difference of more than half an year between the post and the chapter
Seems fine, agree

 

[Mizuki67]

It came from Ramiris' explanation of the Great Spirit. She explained from the beginning of the existence of the Great Spirit until the end (the end of the world). This explains that the Great Spirits (Including Light and Darkness) only exist until the end of the world.


Since when its Empty Universe?

Maybe I will use Raw and DeepL as the source

DeepL :

You did read the post?, it said that after GS was born Veldanava arosed, uses turn bull to create life
It fits the story description very well

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

You did read the post?, it said that after GS was born Veldanava arosed, uses turn bull to create life
It fits the story description very well

How could he exist after the Great Spirit when he was alone in nothingness?

彼は、虚無の空間において独り、その孤独に耐えかねた。(248)

He could not bear the loneliness of being alone in the void. (248)

 

[Mizuki67]

How could he exist after the Great Spirit when he was alone in nothingness?

Okay...
I will be back for counterarguments, i need to work on a better explanation

 

[CodeCCLL]

This comment was posted on November 7 2013. Meanwhile, the feat used for Non-Duality Type 1 which also states the beginning of Veldanava is Chapter 248 which was released on July 6 2014.

It's certain that Fuse-sensei changed his mind about Veldanava.

Just because you think it's certain doesn't change the fact that it's still something that needs to be proven.

It could also be said that the Great Holy Spirit is Veldanava itself

The Great Spirit existed until the world ended

Please decide, if Veldanava is the Great Holy Spirit, why does the Holy Spirit continue to exist even though Veldanava is dead?

If Veldanava is not a Holy Spirit, then he must be greater than a Holy Spirit. Because Veldanava is the only being in Nothingness

This is also an assumption you are making.

”虚無に力が満ちている。
　これが聖霊である。大いなる聖霊は、ただ存在するだけの力の源。
　そんな中、光と闇、２柱の大精霊が生じた。
　世界が誕生した瞬間であった。
　しかし、世界はただ、漂うだけの存在である.

Here, it is stated that the void is filled with the power of the Great Holy Spirit, in other words, the power of the Great Holy Spirit fills the void.

最後の世界創造については、説明が難しい.
ヴェルダナーヴァも、世界が出来た後に発生し ています.
その後の、エネルギー渦巻く原初世界を調整 し、生命を生み出したのが彼。
細かく説明すると冗長になるので、その辺は省 略してます.

Fuse had already explained it this way at the time.

It came from Ramiris' explanation of the Great Spirit. She explained from the beginning of the existence of the Great Spirit until the end (the end of the world). This explains that the Great Spirits (Including Light and Darkness) only exist until the end of the world.

世界は、相互に干渉しあい、やがて安定する。

　これが、大いなる８柱の大精霊。

　そして、世界に光が満ち、闇に覆われて。

　新たな精霊達が誕生し、消えていく。

　生と死。

　世界がいつか終わりを迎えるその時まで……

First of all, you are saying that all the Great Spirits mentioned in this scan will disappear when the end of the world comes, right? So what's the evidence that makes you confident that the End of the World mentioned here is the same End of the World caused by Yuuki's Beelzebub at the end of the series?

The end of the World mentioned here is clearly the Primordial World that Fuse mentioned (the Primordial World that existed before Veldanava created the Parallel Universes and World System). Therefore, the end of the Primordial World is literally the end of everything, including the Great Spirits.

However, the End of the World mentioned at the end of the series has nothing to do with this, it is stated that the other dimensions of the Mobius System, which is stated to be similar to Beelzebub, have never been affected, and you ignore the fact that even the Demons derived from the Spirit of Great Darkness and the Underworld where it is located are not affected by Beelzebub and you say it affects the Great Spirits who governed the entire multiverse, including the Great Spirit of Darkness. I don't see any reason to believe this.

How could he exist after the Great Spirit when he was alone in nothingness?

Also, to say something about this, I think I can put forward the idea that Veldanava does not see the Great Holy Spirit, which is an egoless mass of energy, as an entity, to complete the story. As stated, the Great Holy Spirit is just a willless force that is the source of everything, nothing else.

Then, just as Veldanava wished for, life was born in this world, and beings began to act freely and asserted their Wills.

Finally, after a long time, humankind was born as a vessel for the soul with free will and high intellect.

However, this was not what Veldanava wished; he wanted intelligent and willed beings.

Since when its Empty Universe?

Maybe I will use Raw and DeepL as the source

I'm also wondering why you don't quote the all context here.

For Veldanava, who had been bored with the world of emptiness, even just observing the activities of life was fun, but the activities of the creatures called human beings were even more stirring for him.

世界は残酷だが、全てを与えてくれる。

　それが、ヴェルダナーヴァの創造した世界だ。

　彼は、虚無の空間において独り、その孤独に耐えかねた。

　だからこそ、退屈を紛らわせる為に世界を生み出したのだ。

　そして世界には、ヴェルダナーヴァが望んだ通りの自由に行動し意思を主張する存在として、生命が誕生したのである。

　長き時を経て遂に、自由意志と高い知性を持つ、魂の受け皿としての人間が生まれた。

　ヴェルダナーヴァは歓喜した。

　虚無の世界に退屈していたヴェルダナーヴァには、生命の活動を見るだけでも楽しいものだったが、人間という生き物の活動は感動的ですらあったから。

I think, no matter which translation you use, the phrase "world of emptiness/nothingness" remains unchanged, supporting that Veldanava already exists in the Primordial World (the world borning from the duality of yin and yang).
Veldanava did not create the World, but he shaped the World's formless / primordial existence consisting of Yin and Yang duality with Turn Null and created the system that controls the World.

In conclusion, I disagree with the OP.

The story that the Great Holy Spirit is the pure power that is the source of everything in nothingness, and that the duality formed by the Great Spirits of Light and Darkness derived from it created the Primordial World, and that Veldanava was the first being in the Primordial World who was bored with loneliness and a God (have a will), and that with Turn Null he created the World as we know it, Parallel Worlds, the World System, and within it free-willed, intelligent beings like himself, is still the most logical for me.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Fuse mentions, author replied, author comment, blah blah blah

But didn't include a scan that said so

I can say that Fuse once said that Rimuru was Boundless, Source? trust me bro

 

[Meli_Tempest]

I said it a while ago, that thread was based on a very clear author death fallacy and contradicts history, it stands alone on a mistranslation that alone does not prove the point, I don't know how it was accepted.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

I said it a while ago, that thread was based on a very clear author death fallacy and contradicts history, it stands alone on a mistranslation that alone does not prove the point, I don't know how it was accepted.

Tensura currently has a lot of headcanons. They think one thing is related to another and draw unreasonable conclusions, even though in fact the author is inconsistent. Fuse-sensei changes his mind too much when writing

 

[Meli_Tempest]

The place where rimuru arrived is very different from the emptiness of the universe caused by Belzebuth and the mobius system.

Ciel mentions that veldora could survive and simply return to his own dimension without being affected by the end of this universe.

However from the place where rimuru was, there is no place to return to even though he can cross between dimensions, none, there is nothing, no time or space, to say that it is the same "nothing" makes no sense and contradicts what ciel tells us.

Not to mention that "heat death" is not a valid argument to say that it is only the end of the universe, the same thing is used in the light novel and it is very explicitly stated that this is where the entire Multiverse ended.

 

[Mizuki67]

I said it a while ago, that thread was based on a very clear author death fallacy and contradicts history, it stands alone on a mistranslation that alone does not prove the point, I don't know how it was accepted.

So you're saying Veldanava was holy spirit and source of nothingness but yet you can't prove that can you
The only thing @Lesser_Goddess_Alexia brings to the table is the veldanava was bored
The case of his finite usage of turn null already debunks his ND

 

[Mizuki67]

The place where rimuru arrived is very different from the emptiness of the universe caused by Belzebuth and the mobius system.

Ciel mentions that veldora could survive and simply return to his own dimension without being affected by the end of this universe.

However from the place where rimuru was, there is no place to return to even though he can cross between dimensions, none, there is nothing, no time or space, to say that it is the same "nothing" makes no sense and contradicts what ciel tells us.

Not to mention that "heat death" is not a valid argument to say that it is only the end of the universe, the same thing is used in the light novel and it is very explicitly stated that this is where the entire Multiverse ended.

AUTHOR LITERALLY STATED "LAWS OF ENTROPY" WHAT IS THAT, ISNT THAT BASIC HEAT DEATH

 

[Meli_Tempest]

Btw Since when does "shaping" something that already exists mean the same as "creating" it? It literally contradicts the definition of the word itself.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

So you're saying Veldanava was holy spirit and source of nothingness but yet you can't prove that can you
The only thing @Lesser_Goddess_Alexia brings to the table is the veldanava was bored
The case of his finite usage of turn null already debunks his ND

Veldanava alone in Nothingness
And Holy Spirit in Nothingness

If Veldanava is not Holy Spirit, then Veldanava shouldn't be alone in Nothingness.

Its simple thought

 

[Meli_Tempest]

AUTHOR LITERALLY STATED "LAWS OF ENTROPY" WHAT IS THAT, ISNT THAT BASIC HEAT DEATH

Entropy is the law of thermodynamics, basic physics, and what does it matter anyway? The author has also used it to refer to the end of the multiverse, it is not a valid argument to prove your point here, it never was.

 

[CodeCCLL]

Fuse mentions, author replied, author comment, blah blah blah

But didn't include a scan that said so

I can say that Fuse once said that Rimuru was Boundless, Source? trust me bro

The quotes I made along with yours are enough. If the staff wants, I can bring scans of the quotes and I could discuss this further if you weren't just saying "blah blah" to what I said but anyway, I don't really care if this is accepted or not, this is literally the 4th thread discussing the legitimacy of Nonduality.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Just a reminder that Fuse-sensei often changes his mind when writing stories. For example, he previously said he would finish the LN in volume 20 and he changed his mind to finish the LN in volume 22.

So, when the author changes his mind (especially if it is just a reply from more than 6 months), then his statement can no longer be used.

 

[Mizuki67]

Veldanava alone in Nothingness
And Holy Spirit in Nothingness

If Veldanava is not Holy Spirit, then Veldanava shouldn't be alone in Nothingness.

Its simple thought

Holy spirit IS nothingness
That's the diff

 

[Mizuki67]

Just a reminder that Fuse-sensei often changes his mind when writing stories. For example, he previously said he would finish the LN in volume 20 and he changed his mind to finish the LN in volume 22.

So, when the author changes his mind (especially if it is just a reply from more than 6 months), then his statement can no longer be used.

Haven't seen bro change his mind on what a story shohld entail tho

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Holy spirit IS nothingness
That's the diff

Choose one then
Holy Spirit is
a. Nothingness
b. Source of power

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Well, even if the Holy Spirit is nothingness, Veldanava is still a Non-Duality Being because he is alone in the Holy Spirit. And that makes Rimuru Non-Duality

 

[Mizuki67]

Choose one then
Holy Spirit is
a. Nothingness
b. Source of power

"Power was nothing"="holy spirit is the source of power"=holy spirit is nothing

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

"Power was nothing"="holy spirit is the source of power"=holy spirit is nothing

Since when 'Power was nothing'?

 

[CodeCCLL]

Just a reminder that Fuse-sensei often changes his mind when writing stories. For example, he previously said he would finish the LN in volume 20 and he changed his mind to finish the LN in volume 22.

So, when the author changes his mind (especially if it is just a reply from more than 6 months), then his statement can no longer be used.

Do you think that's just the problem? The only thing I've seen here so far is an says that "author's statements are invalid" okay Rimuru can gain nonduality again then next? Many points are still open to discuss, such as whether Veldanava and the Holy Spirit are separate being, the same being, their superiority over each other, End of the World, the relationship between the Multiverse created by Veldanava and the Primordial World, created by the Yin and Yang Duality, doesn't matter, this thread is accepted or not. This uncertainty will continue unless it is discussed and clarified thoroughly.

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

Me : Fuse-sensei changes his mind, you can't use that reply from 6 month ago.
CodeCCL : The only thing I've seen here so far is an says that "author's statements are invalid"

Bruh, i never say 'author statements are invalid'.

And yeah, since the previous thread brought Fuse-sensei's reply, of course I will bring that up as the main issue.

After all, they were the ones who closed the thread when Catpija expressed his opinion

 

[CodeCCLL]

I was thinking you might know what I mean, but whatever, until anyone can provide useful input or the staff can comment, there doesn't seem to be anything else to talk about.

 

[Mizuki67]

Me : Fuse-sensei changes his mind, you can't use that reply from 6 month ago.
CodeCCL : The only thing I've seen here so far is an says that "author's statements are invalid"

Bruh, i never say 'author statements are invalid'.

And yeah, since the previous thread brought Fuse-sensei's reply, of course I will bring that up as the main issue.

After all, they were the ones who closed the thread when Catpija expressed his opinion

Who's they?
We aren't admins with superpowers to close threads you know, we just closed it since it became accepted
The heat death thing can be explained here

Now lets move on to why its accurate
You read it right author said

Veldanava arosed after the "world" was made

We all know author fuse is a hectic in describing what world is
It could mean everything
It could mean a universe
It could mean a planet
In this clear scenario it's everything

Now they said "Veldanava was bored and created life" which clearly fits the description presented by the author
And we all know how ciel describes the end of the world as, she says "the universe ended and they watched it end"
It other words, stars, matter, life and energy, they watched it all decay, this will take countless years to actually happen, as seen in the video presented Above about 10^1000000000000 to happen
Even more perhaps and we all know ciel said she have been observing for countless years in addition to the banter, it takes countless years for turn null to generate amount enough for a world to be created and rimuru had enough to create about 10,000-any tens of thousandth value which means its legit
Now how does this debunks your point?

• End of the universe was experienced physically not great spirit dying
• If the great spirits does die, its the multiverse that ends not just a single universe experiencing heat death
• Veldanava wasn't ever mentioned to be holy spirit if he was, there will be a massive contradiction in the story, the holy spirit is described like its all powerful since they said "its the source of power that just exist" in addition to the great spirit thing, this debunks why Veldanava had to calm down to use finite energy amount to create the universe, in addition to that great spirit influence never ended the universe just lost energy
• According to Jozay old thread we could see how "in a world without energy the universe loses the concept of time"
• Author was very practical about this, he never intended to create these flods of mistakes hope you get?

 

[Mizuki67]

I was thinking you might know what I mean, but whatever, until anyone can provide useful input or the staff can comment, there doesn't seem to be anything else to talk about.

Who's they?
We aren't admins with superpowers to close threads you know, we just closed it since it became accepted
The heat death thing can be explained here

Now lets move on to why its accurate
You read it right author said

We all know author fuse is a hectic in describing what world is
It could mean everything
It could mean a universe
It could mean a planet
In this clear scenario it's everything

Now they said "Veldanava was bored and created life" which clearly fits the description presented by the author
And we all know how ciel describes the end of the world as, she says "the universe ended and they watched it end"
It other words, stars, matter, life and energy, they watched it all decay, this will take countless years to actually happen, as seen in the video presented Above about 10^1000000000000 to happen
Even more perhaps and we all know ciel said she have been observing for countless years in addition to the banter, it takes countless years for turn null to generate amount enough for a world to be created and rimuru had enough to create about 10,000-any tens of thousandth value which means its legit
Now how does this debunks your point?

• End of the universe was experienced physically not great spirit dying
• If the great spirits does die, its the multiverse that ends not just a single universe experiencing heat death
• Veldanava wasn't ever mentioned to be holy spirit if he was, there will be a massive contradiction in the story, the holy spirit is described like its all powerful since they said "its the source of power that just exist" in addition to the great spirit thing, this debunks why Veldanava had to calm down to use finite energy amount to create the universe, in addition to that great spirit influence never ended the universe just lost energy
• According to Jozay old thread we could see how "in a world without energy the universe loses the concept of time"
• Author was very practical about this, he never intended to create these flods of mistakes hope you get?

 

[Lesser_Goddess_Alexia]

there will be a massive contradiction in the story,

As you said, there will be a massive contradiction in the story. Thats Fuse-sensei for you.

• End of the universe was experienced physically not great spirit dying
• If the great spirits does die, its the multiverse that ends not just a single universe experiencing heat death

Thats what Ramiris said

世界は、相互に干渉しあい、やがて安定する。

　これが、大いなる８柱の大精霊。

　そして、世界に光が満ち、闇に覆われて。

　新たな精霊達が誕生し、消えていく。

　生と死。

　世界がいつか終わりを迎えるその時まで……”

TL :

The world interpenetrates and eventually stabilizes.

　This is the Great Eight Pillars of the Great Spirit.

　Then the world is filled with light and covered with darkness.

　New spirits are born and disappear.

　Life and death.

　Until that time when the world will one day come to an end. ......"

Ramiris said 'World'. When talking about the Great Spirit, Ramiris has said 'World' multiple times. The Great Spirit is not stated to be a multiversal concept by Ramiris.

So

the destruction of this one world (in chapter 248), made the Great Spirit also disappear. Because the Great Spirit will exist until the world ends (in chapter 62).

Yeah, Non-duality Type 1 for Rimuru