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Terminator vs Guts
- Thread starter Legion350
- Start date
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Terminator due to combat experience.
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Is that a joke?
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...It's not.
I know nothing about beserk, though.
I know nothing about beserk, though.
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Guts, since being picked up off the ground as his dead mother hung from a tree, was trained everyday, by a group of mercenaries under conditions even men would be like troubled with, was a mercenary for hire and fought in wars his entire life.
If this was post golden age (which fortunately it isn't) he fights offs hordes of demons every night as his brand summons demons that want to kill him as he's branded for sacrifice.
If this was post golden age (which fortunately it isn't) he fights offs hordes of demons every night as his brand summons demons that want to kill him as he's branded for sacrifice.
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The T-850 far outclasses Guts in lifting strength to the point of being able to dominate him if the two of them were to grapple in melee. (Which all of the Terminators tend to do) He should also have more than enough strength to crush Golden Age Guts's sword, seeing as it was shown being chipped down by common blades wielded by everyday human soldiers and every form of Terminator has been shown smashing various forms of metal with their bare hands.
Scanners and targeting systems within both the T-800 and the T-850 allow for prediction of a target's trajectory as well as location of weak points and assessment of all weapons within the target's possession, all in a matter of moments. (read: he will know where Guts is going, every weak point in Guts's armor and every weapon Guts is carrying, at all times) Trajectory prediction features and in-house targeting systems are accurate enough to allow the T-800 to incapacitate a group of numerous police officers (as well as destroy several police cars) using a fully-automatic Dillon Minigun at full-burst, without any casualties whatsoever. Also allowed the T-850 to perform the same exact feat with a heavy machinegun.
Other features found within the T-800 and T-850 models include infrared vision (allowing them to see enemies in extreme environmental conditions), X-ray vision (allowing them to see their targets through any solid material, including several-inch-thick walls made of solid concrete), and monitors which assess the target's vital signs and bodily processes such as heart-rate, breathing rate and subtle muscle movements. The latter allowed the T-850 to predict the exact probability of John Connor following through on his threat of suicide. (Or, more accurately, the exact probability of him pulling the trigger on the gun he held to his own head)
Terminators do not feel pain or fatigue, and will continue to fight as if unimpeded when missing skin, limbs or even whole sections of their bodies.
Both the T-800 and the T-850 have shown to be capable of fighting Terminators who held the advantage over them in terms of weapons and abilities as well as scanning systems similar to their own, winning against most in single combat and holding their own against others. Guts doesn't even have better weapons in this fight.
And let's not forget, Guts's main style has always been to rush headlong into the fight, powering through damage with his obscene endurance and stamina. He thinks on his feet when the time comes, but he's never been much of a tactically-minded individual and the manga makes this clear numerous times throughout its run.
All things considered, I gotta go with the Terminator on this one. He has all the right advantages here, and even with Guts's infamous brutality and stamina, it's only a matter of time before Arnie takes him down.
Scanners and targeting systems within both the T-800 and the T-850 allow for prediction of a target's trajectory as well as location of weak points and assessment of all weapons within the target's possession, all in a matter of moments. (read: he will know where Guts is going, every weak point in Guts's armor and every weapon Guts is carrying, at all times) Trajectory prediction features and in-house targeting systems are accurate enough to allow the T-800 to incapacitate a group of numerous police officers (as well as destroy several police cars) using a fully-automatic Dillon Minigun at full-burst, without any casualties whatsoever. Also allowed the T-850 to perform the same exact feat with a heavy machinegun.
Other features found within the T-800 and T-850 models include infrared vision (allowing them to see enemies in extreme environmental conditions), X-ray vision (allowing them to see their targets through any solid material, including several-inch-thick walls made of solid concrete), and monitors which assess the target's vital signs and bodily processes such as heart-rate, breathing rate and subtle muscle movements. The latter allowed the T-850 to predict the exact probability of John Connor following through on his threat of suicide. (Or, more accurately, the exact probability of him pulling the trigger on the gun he held to his own head)
Terminators do not feel pain or fatigue, and will continue to fight as if unimpeded when missing skin, limbs or even whole sections of their bodies.
Both the T-800 and the T-850 have shown to be capable of fighting Terminators who held the advantage over them in terms of weapons and abilities as well as scanning systems similar to their own, winning against most in single combat and holding their own against others. Guts doesn't even have better weapons in this fight.
And let's not forget, Guts's main style has always been to rush headlong into the fight, powering through damage with his obscene endurance and stamina. He thinks on his feet when the time comes, but he's never been much of a tactically-minded individual and the manga makes this clear numerous times throughout its run.
All things considered, I gotta go with the Terminator on this one. He has all the right advantages here, and even with Guts's infamous brutality and stamina, it's only a matter of time before Arnie takes him down.
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Guts grappled with Wyald, that's actually somewhat debatable.
While good that doesn't really matter here.
Not much here, guts likely won't hide or anything.
While that's true, guts kinda already did all that just about so it's not like he's gonna just drop.
Guts has fought beings far above that, fought Zodd, who's 8-B, and lived with only minor injuries and Zodd was in the midst of litteraly killing dozens by ripping them apart, crushing and more, Gut has the advantage here.
True, but hes also dirty fighter and will exploit anything he can.
While good that doesn't really matter here.
Not much here, guts likely won't hide or anything.
While that's true, guts kinda already did all that just about so it's not like he's gonna just drop.
Guts has fought beings far above that, fought Zodd, who's 8-B, and lived with only minor injuries and Zodd was in the midst of litteraly killing dozens by ripping them apart, crushing and more, Gut has the advantage here.
True, but hes also dirty fighter and will exploit anything he can.
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Grappling Wyald is supposedly Class 5. The T-850 lifted a bus with one arm, which quite easily puts him at Class 25. Also haven't addressed what Guts can do if the Terminator destroys his sword. Zodd isn't here to throw him a new one.
Prediction of trajectory means he knows where he will move and how fast. Assessment of weapons means he knows everything Guts has equipped, including his cannon-arm and grenades. (Guts, meanwhile, does not have this advantage) Assessment of weak points means he knows exactly where he needs to shoot Guts in order to get past his armor and incapacitate him. Targeting systems mean that he is very unlikely to miss.
Predicting the exact probability of a man pulling the trigger on a gun should easily translate to predicting the exact probability of Guts using any of his weapons, or making use of a particular tactic once the Terminator has familiarized himself with his fighting patterns.
You missed the part about the Terminators feeling no pain or fatigue. Guts has serious endurance, but damage still hurts, and he is still quite capable of tiring.
Guts' first fight with Zodd involved the latter's arrogance being a key reason for why the fight wasn't over in mere moments. (Zodd was toying with Guts at first and wasn't nearly as aggressive with him as he was in later encounters, even after transforming) If Golden Age Guts scaled to him in any respect outside of speed, he would be 8-B, not 9-A.
Being a dirty fighter is a mild advantage at best, especially since his main 'dirty tricks' (flinging dirt into an opponent's eye, throwing headbutts, biting weapons in his teeth, etc) aren't going to affect a Terminator as much as they would a normal human, and since his other ideas (deliberately taking blows/stabs/etc in order to close the distance) will be outright detrimental to him here.
EDIT: Just remembered that Golden Age Guts means no cannon arm, bombs or arrows. That's another disadvantage.
Prediction of trajectory means he knows where he will move and how fast. Assessment of weapons means he knows everything Guts has equipped, including his cannon-arm and grenades. (Guts, meanwhile, does not have this advantage) Assessment of weak points means he knows exactly where he needs to shoot Guts in order to get past his armor and incapacitate him. Targeting systems mean that he is very unlikely to miss.
Predicting the exact probability of a man pulling the trigger on a gun should easily translate to predicting the exact probability of Guts using any of his weapons, or making use of a particular tactic once the Terminator has familiarized himself with his fighting patterns.
You missed the part about the Terminators feeling no pain or fatigue. Guts has serious endurance, but damage still hurts, and he is still quite capable of tiring.
Guts' first fight with Zodd involved the latter's arrogance being a key reason for why the fight wasn't over in mere moments. (Zodd was toying with Guts at first and wasn't nearly as aggressive with him as he was in later encounters, even after transforming) If Golden Age Guts scaled to him in any respect outside of speed, he would be 8-B, not 9-A.
Being a dirty fighter is a mild advantage at best, especially since his main 'dirty tricks' (flinging dirt into an opponent's eye, throwing headbutts, biting weapons in his teeth, etc) aren't going to affect a Terminator as much as they would a normal human, and since his other ideas (deliberately taking blows/stabs/etc in order to close the distance) will be outright detrimental to him here.
EDIT: Just remembered that Golden Age Guts means no cannon arm, bombs or arrows. That's another disadvantage.
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Isn't Wyald by weight alone far above that?
Good.
Good. Dudnt miss it, even said it was true.
May not be true, Zodd was holding back yeah and while guts ain't scaling to him because of that (yet) but he was litterally shredding people, guts even managed to wound him. Like after he transformed. (Why's he 9-A actually in ap?).
I meant dirty as in let's burn hundreds of kids, exploit everything, type of dirty. And yeah, who cares if guts loses an arm or leg, if it'll help he'll do it.
Good.
Good. Dudnt miss it, even said it was true.
May not be true, Zodd was holding back yeah and while guts ain't scaling to him because of that (yet) but he was litterally shredding people, guts even managed to wound him. Like after he transformed. (Why's he 9-A actually in ap?).
I meant dirty as in let's burn hundreds of kids, exploit everything, type of dirty. And yeah, who cares if guts loses an arm or leg, if it'll help he'll do it.
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...Actually, I stand corrected. His current rating comes from holding Dragonslayer in his teeth. I think he actually got thrashed around by all of the guys bigger than him as far as grappling went. Can't recall entirely. Might need to dig up the scans.
I don't know how to respond to this, but it probably has to do with only cutting off Zodd's horn. That actually does seem kind of suspicious now that I think of it, but I'm sure there's some sort of reason...
I still don't see how that will help close the gap here. Ruthlessness is a virtue in VS battles, but it hardly poses a threat to an enemy built on logic and analysis like the Terminator. And the 'analysis' part is a big factor as far as why that's not as big of an advantage as you might think.
I don't know how to respond to this, but it probably has to do with only cutting off Zodd's horn. That actually does seem kind of suspicious now that I think of it, but I'm sure there's some sort of reason...
I still don't see how that will help close the gap here. Ruthlessness is a virtue in VS battles, but it hardly poses a threat to an enemy built on logic and analysis like the Terminator. And the 'analysis' part is a big factor as far as why that's not as big of an advantage as you might think.
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There's been minor cases where he's held his own against some big things. Skull knight cut off his horn.
Guts cleaved through his arm alongside Griffith.
Guts cleaved through his arm alongside Griffith.
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Oh, right. Dunno why I thought Guts was the one who cut off Zodd's horn. Memory must be slipping.
...Does that even count if it's a shared feat like that? That might be part of the reason he doesn't scale to Zodd in the Golden Age Arc. Also, I'm pretty sure he couldn't cut base Zodd past the shoulder on his own. (Or was at least blocked by Zodd somehow before doing so)
...Does that even count if it's a shared feat like that? That might be part of the reason he doesn't scale to Zodd in the Golden Age Arc. Also, I'm pretty sure he couldn't cut base Zodd past the shoulder on his own. (Or was at least blocked by Zodd somehow before doing so)
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No, they cut seperate arms.
Zodd, stop the blade I think but it went like 6 inches deep into him pre apostle.
Zodd, stop the blade I think but it went like 6 inches deep into him pre apostle.
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That makes zero sense, then. Maybe a CRT is in order. (Unless this was already addressed somewhere else before now?) Seems weird that he'd be able to damage Zodd during the Golden Age but still have trouble with him post-Eclipse despite getting a power boost since then...
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There was a crt, lina was gonna help, but he kinda left.
Zodd was holding back, but ya can't hold back your durability, this isnt dragon ball..
Zodd was holding back, but ya can't hold back your durability, this isnt dragon ball..
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Might need another CRT then. If scaling to Zodd is valid, that pretty much nulls this whole matchup. (And, by extension, my reasoning for why Terminator takes it)
Seems fairly important too, tbh.
Seems fairly important too, tbh.
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Actually plan on it, but I need to get feats that need to be calced furst, there's a few that scale to guts, Zodd and skull knight that need for more justification.
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Terminator was programmed to have pretty much the entire history of mankind warfare as his combat experience; that basically proves he's technically more experienced than any human being can possibly be. He's also quite knowledgeable the pressure points of both humans and various weapons. Anyway, this is an extremely tough match as I'm a big fan of both characters, but I think Terminator's superior tech and excessive knowledge give him the edge here.
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Yeah, for now, I'm going to stick with Arnie for the reasons I outlined earlier. If the revisions on Pre-Eclipse Guts go through and he ends up scaling to Zodd, then hey, we can close the thread. But as long as Guts is 9-A, Terminator has the advantage.
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