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the Crimson King vs Lorkhan

Lorkhan stomps. He's regarded as a much higher tier of High 1-B. Too put it simply: Firstly Oblivion is an infinite dimensional realm, Aetherius is infinitely above this and there are infinite "wheels" above Aetherius each one transcending the other in the same way Aetherius transcends Oblivion. Lorkhan prevades throughout the Aurbis as the concept of Space which contains all of this.

I'm pretty sure TCK is only High 1-B because he was going to destroy the physical "body" of Gan. Which is only baseline High 1-B.
 
Doesn't At least High 1-B means the CK should also be somewhat above baseline, which is his Los' incarnation?

Can't the Crimson King cause Bathesda financial failure, orchestrate the assassination of Michale Kirkbride, close the internet domain of the Imperial Library, hire writers to rewrite the canon about Lorkhan and stuff like that? I mean like he did in the novel to weaken the Tower.
 
I mean I'm not too sure why he's "At least High 1-B" all I know is he was going to destroy the tower. Nothing indicates he comes close to Lorkhan.

Uh?

What?

If he can use plot manipulation to weaken the tower that doesn't mean he can do it on a being who transcends him by literally infinite infinities.

Reality - Fiction Interaction. And no CK can't do any of that.
 
Saga89 said:
Can't the Crimson King cause Bathesda financial failure, orchestrate the assassination of Michale Kirkbride, close the internet domain of the Imperial Library, hire writers to rewrite the canon about Lorkhan and stuff like that? I mean like he did in the novel to weaken the Tower.
Click to expand...
Entirely out of context in just about every way.

He never once forced a writer to write a story his way, or did anything out of the above that's been said. And before someone pulls the "I'll be a vampire, a slave to him. His scribe, maybe. His pet writer." quote, the entire passage can be found here:

Stephen King's recollection
Said quote comes from the point where Roland had hypnotized Stephen King in order to gain some information. It comes from King himself, and is referring to a moment in his past when the Crimson King attempted to kill him by sending spiders after him while he was sawing wood as a punishment. An attempt which failed (obviously) alongside many other indirect attacks that were made prior to the events of the books. It isn't plot manipulation; it's a failed attempt at murder that he tried because he knew he wouldn't have control over the story otherwise.

Furthermore, Stephen King explicitly exists in the Dark Tower multiverse. By our own Reality-Fiction rules, Bethesda, Kirkbride, etc. do not.
 
Lorkharn was on the same level of existence as The Prisoner (Who had already oneshot the Numidium at an early stage) and Vivec who "married" (more like worked together to transcend the walking ways and escape the dream of Anu influenced by wholly negative emotion which essentialy makes his dream a nightmare which the inhabitants of realized and wanted to change this) to create the new Amaranth.
 
"The Prisoner" never oneshot the Numidium, and I don't know what you mean by saying Lorkhan was "in the same level of existence" as it.

Unless you go by all of the different C0DAs made by fans, which, as much as I'd love to, can't really be featured here.

The Prisoner isn't even a being, it's just a Constant that pervades across ANU's Dream.

Creating the Amaranth also has nothing to do with power in any way, shape, or form. At best you could argue that an individual needs CHIM to do it.
 
Jubal-lun-Sul did one-shot the Numidium.

Lorkhan was the priest for the creation of the new Amanranth. He married them to create the Amanranth and once they were married he was secure and healed.

Jubal-lun-Sul (correct me if I'm wrong) is a Prisoner who is a being. The Prisoner is a constant that continously reincarnates as a being to be the hero at a certain time. What I mean by Prisoner is the reincarnate at the point of C0DA.

That's not the point anyway. Point is Lorkhan was on that level of existence which is above the Numidium.
 
It's more like he used Numidium's own gimmick to beat him. The thing is, here the Numidium and Julbal-Lun-Sul's people both want to escape the dream but are doing it in different ways. The only reason the Numidium keeps coming back is because it wants to win.

JUBAL-LUN-SUL (CONT'D)
We're finally talking the same language.

PIC 2: EXT. LUNAR LANDSCAPE

Larger pic for effect. Jubal cuts the Numidium's head off with an empty speech balloon.

JUBAL-LUN-SUL
(SPEECH BALLOON EMPTY)
 
Jubal (possibly) being a Prisoner is irrelevant, because "The Prisoner" is just a constant with no set power level. Jubal was a Ruling King of the Aurbis by the time he faced the Numidium, his power had nothing to do with being a Prisoner.

And even then, he didn't oneshot the Numidium, he convinced the thing to recognize how self-destructive ane detrimental its philosophy was, by talking to it, and thus making it accept death and be erased by its denials. Jubal cutting the Numidium's head off with its own Empty Speech-Baloon is a metaphor for how the Numidium's own denial and philosophy ended up being its downfall.

Lorkhan being the priest for Jubal and Vivec's "Marriage", again, has nothing to do with power or him being on a higher level of existence. The entire sequence depicting Jubal and Vivec's Marriage is a visual metaphor for the two realizing that there is no "Me", or "You", only "WE", and thus uniting into a single entity (The New Amaranth) through Love.

Really, most of the things that happen in C0DA are at least partially metaphorical, especially the events that happen from Jubal's bachelor party and onwards.
 
I didn't say his power had anything to do with being a Prisoner. Again I was talking about the Prisoner reincarnate at the time with was Jubal.

Ok I agree that Jubal didn't oneshot it that is a valid intrepretation.

Lorkhan being there is detrimental. It wasn't just Jubal or Vivec who created the new Amanranth. It seemed necessary for Lorkhan to be there. Lorkhan's hole was healed once the marriage took place. In the sermons Lorkhan was also present at the provisional house when Vivec attempted the jump and realized he couldn't make it on his own. Saying it has nothing to do with levels of existence is weird because he has to achieve CHIM first which already is an existence beyond the Aubris. Then creating the new Amanranth was said to transcend all the walking ways.

I know most of it isn't literal but there's different interpretations of the metaphors what I've learnt form reading TES is no interpretation is set in stonce.
 
Lorkhan and Akatosh fused was the priest. And Talos(Lorhkan) wasn't able to defeat the Numidium.
 
That still doesn't really mean much, since, as far as we know, the Prisoner isn't really a force or a being with agency on its own, it is just a cosmic constant which exists across ANU's Dream, so trying to assign power levels to it is a wrong notion.

Well, Lorkhan being the Priest which marries Jubal and Vivec is an interesting thing to think about and is actually something that a few Interpretations I really like tend to address, but associating it with Power Levels is really unfounded, and Lorkhan having somehow "ascended" to a higher level of existence seems to be conjecture at best.

The Six Walking Ways are the formulas through which one can escape the Aurbic Prison and leave ANU's Dream of suffering. Amaranth doesn't really transcend the Walking Ways as much as it is a Walking Way on its own (The Sixth, as implied by Sermon 36)
 
I just called it Lorkhan out of convenience.

Also what do you want me to call the Priest, Akulakhan?
 
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