The Cute Deadweight Vs Arius Creation

[Lightning_XXI]

Nero vs Lucia

- Both at 7-B

- Both in character

- Fight starts at 150 meters between them

- EoG for both

Nero - Knight Knight Chopper

Lucia - Tony Tony Chopper

Inconclusive - Dark Dark Chopper

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Bump

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Hmm. What gear and set up does Lucia have here? If she's just using her basic abilities, Nero will take this in my opinion. Red Queen gives Nero a CQC advantage, so if the fight closes, he'll likely win, and Blue Rose is better than her daggers at range. Yamato just gives him an outright advantage, so much so it's hard to quantify.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Lucia is 10X faster than Nero thanks to the Quick Heart and can slow down time with Chrono Heart

I believe it is a good battle

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

She can use every heart then? In which case I'd still give to Nero, but at high-diff instead of relatively assured.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Yeah, she can use all of them

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Bump

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Bump

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Chrono Heart only slows down time upon hitting the enemy, so Lucia has to land a strike on Nero in order for it to work. Which I don't see happening due to Nero's CQC advantage and better ranged options.

 

[GrathOfLux]

Eh, chrono heart may only be applicable when she hits him, but the 10x speed boost when Lucia goes DT with Quick Heart should make that possible, even with Nero's ranged options. I'm more than willing to be convinced for either side here, but for now consider me inconclusive. I can't think of much that would explicitly give one of them a notable edge over the other.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Nero's DT with extra hits and what essentially amounts to an extra person fightning behind him might allow him to overcome Quick Heart's DT amp, at least enough to prevent it from being a huge advantage. Add on that she'd have to sacrifice amped abilities from her other hearts to try and outspeed Nero, I'd still say Nero takes this, especially given his tracking summoned swords that can counter Lucia's speed to a degree.

If the battle closes, Lucia has to lean onto the Quick Heart to be effecitive, sacrificing her power and other abilities by switching to it. If the battle stays at range or changes to ranged, Nero utterly dominates anything Lucia can throw at him. And at close range, Nero's Devil Bringer would provide an advantage by holding Lucia down if she makes a mistake and dealing immense damage to her.

All in all, Nero wins, with a fair bit of difficulty.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Nero's DT with extra hits and what essentially amounts to an extra person fightning behind him might allow him to overcome Quick Heart's DT amp, at least enough to prevent it from being a huge advantage.

Nero's DT is not 2 Vs 1, it follows Nero's movements, and if Nero doesn't react to Lucia, then DT will also get blitzed. I don't think this will cover their huge speed difference. I don't remember that Nero's Summoned Swords are Homing Attack, but even if they are, they can be avoided by Lucia's Throwing Daggers

Lucia has to lean onto the Quick Heart to be effecitive, sacrificing her power and other abilities by switching to it.

That's not that relevant, Quick Heart is a Movement Heart while Chrono Heart is a Support Heart, they can be used at the same time. If Lucia gets close, while using the Quick Heart, the chances of her hitting Nero one single time to trigger the Chrono Heart are huge since his DT is not a separate entity, and just follows his movements which will be 10X slower than Lucia's

Even in a normal fight, a clash between swords would happen because that's how DMC characters fight, Nero will only avoid close combat if he knows the effects of the Chrono Heart, which he doesn't

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Lucia's daggers likely aren't as strong as Nero's swords, there's a wide margin of difference in size and speed. Nero's swords curve and even make sharp turns to attack targets, although they are limited compared to something like Vergil's. And Nero's DT has shown the ability to function seperately from Nero when it comes to attacking, as seen in his Buster against Berial, where he throws Berial up and his DT slashes at Berial with Yamato, without Nero's input.

And if the Quick Heart only boosts movement speed, which is safe to assume given it's a Movement Heart, then it changes absolutely nothing about the CQC match up. Also, Nero can likely tank at least one or two Chrono Heart activations, which would allow him to figure out how it functions and work to avoid it.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

And if the Quick Heart only boosts movement speed, which is safe to assume given it's a Movement Heart

Wait, wtf ??? It's just the name since the other Movement Hearts are Aqua and Aerial Heart, and they can dodge things on their way even when moving 10X faster so it amps their Reactions and Combat speed aswell, just like we scale MCU Iron Man's speed

Nero's DT has shown the ability to function seperately from Nero when it comes to attacking, as seen in his Buster against Berial, where he throws Berial up and his DT slashes at Berial with Yamato, without Nero's input.

Bro, the DT is also 10X slower than Lucia, why this is even a thing ? And we don't know if it is moving by itself or if Nero is ordering it, and in both scenarios, it stills 10X slower than Lucia

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

I said "IF". I haven't spent a long time playing DMC2, so forgive me for not being fully familiar with the mechanics. Even still, she can only move 10x faster in DT correct? In which case Nero can possibly defeat her by going DT before her and attempting to AP stomp.

And the DT is still a second being that can attack and defend. Assuming it is around Nero's level, and that it can move on its own, that's two Neros that Lucia needs to react to and defend against. Even if they are 10x slower, they can cover double the angles for defense. This is, also, assuming that she doesn't use any of the other movement hearts in this battle, like the Aerial Heart, and fully leans onto the quick heart.

Again, high-diff for Nero. He's better than her in base, and while she can outspeed him in DT, she can't outpower him, can only outspeed him with one of her three Movement Hearts, and he can defeat her with his own DT before she can go DT herself. Still, he can lose if she goes DT early on, so Nero only wins 6-7/10 matches. This comes down to a "Lucia can turn the tables if she uses a specific ability early on, but if she doesn't, she loses."

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Pretty sure Lucia takes this.

Stats amp plus time slow/stop and some hits equals dead Nero.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

I said "IF". I haven't spent a long time playing DMC2, so forgive me for not being fully familiar with the mechanics. Even still, she can only move 10x faster in DT correct? In which case Nero can possibly defeat her by going DT before her and attempting to AP stomp.

Well, DT are thought based, so it will be probably the answer for each other mid battle, it's basically instantaneous

And yes, every Heart depends on DT

And the DT is still a second being that can attack and defend. Assuming it is around Nero's level, and that it can move on its own, that's two Neros that Lucia needs to react to and defend against. Even if they are 10x slower, they can cover double the angles for defense. This is, also, assuming that she doesn't use any of the other movement hearts in this battle, like the Aerial Heart, and fully leans onto the quick heart.

Now I got it, it heeeeelps against the Quick Heart, no doubt about that, but still, it's a big gap and she will be faster than both, I'm not saying that he will die because of this, but can he avoid one single hit ? The Quick Heart is not the only problem here, you forgot what I said about the Chrono Heart and this:

Even in a normal fight, a clash between swords would happen because that's how DMC characters fight, Nero will only avoid close combat if he knows the effects of the Chrono Heart, which he doesn't

Basically it is impossible for Nero to avoid ANY contact with Lucia if he doesn't know Lucia's Time Hax

I don't think you believe that Quick Heart + Chrono Heart is not a dangerous combo for Nero.

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

Gonna be tough for Lucia to take Nero down, especially when he's stronger by a sizable margin and has Mid regen.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

People were saying their mid regen is trash so she could easily take him down when she can boost herself 10 times.

IIRC you were asking for a downgrade and saying they shouldn't have that kind of regen.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Well, Nero defeated a 7-B using 3-A power, while Lucia defeated a High 8-C using 3-A power

Yes, Nero's stronger, but we had many battles with a difference of 3X, 4X the AP and it wasn't a stomp, so yeah

Anyway I'll count your post as a vote, okay Reb ?

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Lucia has a lot of trouble taking Nero down and he won't have much trouble taking her down, at least from an AP/durability stance. Lucia's speed and time slow is still a huge boon, and can let her take the match, but I still say Nero takes this 6-7 times out 10.

And Lucia won't regen unless she uses the healing heart and/or DT, whereas Nero can regen outside of DT. So unless Lucia is constantly in DT and using the healing heart, she'll be taking pretty serious damage, while Nero will be able to heal (note: not super effectively) off Lucia's fairly lower AP.

Still a Nero high-diff for me. Quick Heart + Chrono Heart is the biggest danger here, but outside of that Nero wins pretty much everytime, and with it Nero can still pull a win by being clever and abusing his superior range and better regen, likely after he survives a Chrono Heart attack.

 

[GrathOfLux]

Hmm... yeah, I think I'll change my vote to high-difficulty Nero.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Well, Nero defeated a 7-B using 3-A power, while Lucia defeated a High 8-C using 3-A power
Yes, Nero's stronger, but we had many battles with a difference of 3X, 4X the AP and it wasn't a stomp, so yeah

Anyway I'll count your post as a vote, okay Reb ?

If that's the case then why do they scale to Sid w/Abigail's powers?

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

They don't? Sid with Abagail's power is 3-A, neither Nero nor Lucia scale to him at all.

 

[GrathOfLux]

They don't? Sid with Abagail's power is 3-A, neither Nero nor Lucia scale to him at all.

Wait, since when? Abigail by themselves is stated to be comparable to Mundus, so 3-A. But Sid Abigail is explicitly a far weaker version of Abigail, so they aren't considered 3-A.

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

Read the Key wrong, my bad. Yeah Sid with Abagail's powers is "at least 7-A, likely far higher". But I don't recall Lucia or Nero scaling to them.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

They scale to him, that's why I'm wondering now that I saw the profiles.

We never were given some hint or statement regarding that, they shouldn't scale to Sid, and Arius profile links to Lucia which links to Arius doing some 8-C feat.

I think a CRT is in order to fix that.

 

[GrathOfLux]

I don't recall that either. Sid was long dead before DMC2 or 4.

 

[Dienomite22]

They scale to Sid because Sid's power source is 3A and he has some control over it that was better than Arkham with Sparda just like Arius and Sanctus with Argosax and Sparda's power respectively

 

[KnightOfSunlight]

So Nero scales because he defeated Sparda empowered Sanctus, and Lucia scales because she defeated Argosax empowered Arius.

Got it.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And how does the two of them having a power source being 3-A scales directly to Sid?

They having better control means nothing because we never were told nor hinted or implied that they somehow scale to Sid.

 

[Dienomite22]

It's not that they necessarily scale to Sid directly, it's that Sid powered by a 3-A performed a 7-A feat casually and Sanctus powered by Sparda and had some level of control of Sparda similiar to Sid's control with Abigail's power would scale due to having similiar scenarios.Arius is the one I'm iffy about.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And what proof do you have to claim "Oh they have a 3-A power source just like that other guy so they should scale"?

We don't have any proof to say they scale more than "he has better control" and even then Sid had control over his powers to the point he took care of a casual Dante rather easily, he opened a portal and was spaming lasers.

Arius on the other hand got power from Argosax but that isn't proof of having the same power as Sid.

Sanctus did not have control over the Sparda, he was just wielding it thinking he had the power just to get ****** by Nero, and that does not mean he scales to Sid.

 

[Dienomite22]

I'm not the one that came up with the scaling so don't ask me about it too much.Sanctus is the only one I see as comparable to Sid since he had Nero's blood which was said to allow him to control some of Sparda's power and power the Savior in the first place so he obviously has one of the greater control of 3A demonic power we've seen in DMC so far.Arius on the other hand seemed like he was possessed just by an unknown portion of Argosax's power so I don't understand why he scales to Sid who at least was shown to have some control over Abigails power.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Sanctus didn't had Nero's blood, it was the Savior and it was done in that way so that thing was powerful. I personally can see only the Savior to scale to Sid but not the others.

I will make a CRT for that.

 

[Dienomite22]

Yea, Sanctus was the one fully in control of the Savior.He needed Sparda's blood in order to activate the Sparda sword and use that to control the Savior which in turn made him more powerful.Santus is connected to the Savior in some way which is shown with him being able to freely manipulate it and transfer people or himself in and out of it so it's likely Nero's blood powered Sanctus as well but yea, make a CRT

 

[Lightning_XXI]

Sid, a ULTRA fodder, had Abigail's powers, the weakest demon god

Both Arius and Sanctus were more powerful than Sid and had control over a portion of Argosax and a portion of Sparda, both are stronger than Abigail, so this would make them stronger than Sidgail by simple logic

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Proof they are more powerful than Sid? Or a statement saying they are at the very least comparable? Or hinted at least? because just saying "this guy got a power up from a 3-A power makes him 7-A so every other character who gets a power up by a 3-A source should be equal" is wrong.

 

[Lightning_XXI]

The base is the same

Sid couldn't use Abigail's full power becaus of his soul, Dante states this

The same happens with Sanctus, both were weak in base (Sanctus is stronger, but whatever) and were using 3-A power, both were unworthy of that power because of their soul (same weakness) and one of them performed a 7-A feat, same goes for Arius

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

And I ask again, how does them having a 3-A power source is making them scale to Sid in any way, shape or form?

Yeah, none of them had the souls to wield the power but sharing a common weaknesess inside the verse does not mean they should share the same tier.

In fact the only one who proved to know how to do things right with the power boost was Sid who took care of Dante casually.