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The Entities + The Player

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Jinsye

Jinsye

She/Her
10,439
1,540
3rd time's the charm right?

High 2-A Again
The one thing that makes me repost these are the Skullgirl's profile, specifically Aeon (Skullgirls)

Attack Potency: High Multiverse level+ (Views the Skullgirls universe as a whole as nothing but a video game that she can easily manipulate, with each character's storyline being one of a series of branching timelines)

Well, the MC God tiers have some heavy implication of this too

"That doesn't matter. It thinks we are part of the game."

"It is reading our thoughts as though they were words on a screen.

That is how it chooses to imagine many things, when it is deep in the dream of a game.

Words make a wonderful interface. Very flexible. And less terrifying than staring at the reality behind the screen."

"Hah, the original interface. A million years old, and it still works. But what true structure did this player create, in the reality behind the screen?"

^ Thx Saik for putting this in one post so I can steal it

This shows that at the very least, the Entities see the worlds of Minecraft as just a game. So either we downgrade Skullgirls or upgrade Minecraft. No double standards.

Not entirely sure about the Player since the whole "Dream" thing wasn't accepted, considering it more sees itself as a player in the game and not some entity viewing the outside of it.

Powers and Abilities
Both should also get Information Manipulation and/or Cosmic Awareness. They see the universe itself as code and are able to decode that into emotions, feelings, theories, and ideas.

"Sometimes it believed it was in a universe that was made of energy that was made of offs and ons; zeros and ones; lines of code. Sometimes it believed it was playing a game. Sometimes it believed it was reading words on a screen."

"Shush... Sometimes the player read lines of code on a screen. Decoded them into words; decoded words into meaning; decoded meaning into feelings, emotions, theories, ideas, and the player started to breathe faster and deeper and realised it was alive, it was alive, those thousand deaths had not been real, the player was alive"

Not sure if decoding them into ideas would be Concept Manip but that's more up to interpretation.

There's one thing I'd really want to argue for and that's Abstract Existence but it's soooo ******* vaaague.

"You are the player. The story. The program. The human. Made from nothing but milk and love."

"and the universe said I love you because you are love."

"And the game was over and the player woke up from the dream. And the player began a new dream. And the player dreamed again, dreamed better. And the player was the universe. And the player was love."

^ Reading the page, we have pretty strict standards on Abstract Existence and I don't think these statements make the cut for any of the three types. So shrug, it's a shot in the dark but maybe it'll hit.

Also this stuff that was never addressed in the previous post by Saikou

"In addition, the Entities should receive a few more abilities either way. Due to their wordings in the Poem, they are implied to be the driving force behind everything that happens in the universe. This includes light moving, gravity, and such. They also talk of "Interfaces", which includes words and the idea of creation, destruction, shelter, and such. Again, their wording implies that they create said Interfaces.

I'd rather not go too wild regarding the implications of these, but Light Manip, Gravity Manip, Magic, and Information Manip should be included in the Entities' profile. They should also inherit the Player's abilities, given that they are pretty much the same thing as the Player, Yog-Sothoth-style."
 
I'd rather not go too wild regarding the implications of these, but Light Manip, Gravity Manip, Magic, and Information Manip should be included in the Entities' profile.

I don't see anything wrong with these, but I'll wait for others' opinions.
 
Um

Viewing something as fiction could be much lower tier

And I doubt the Abstract Existence

but Information Manip I can get behind

Though I'd prefer Data Manip for the pure clarification of what kind of information.

I disagree with adding random abilities from other creatures to a being that hasn't displayed them.
 
Viewing something as fiction could be much lower tier

Well, depends on what you view as fiction. The Entities view Minecraft (which consists of multiple 4-D Space-Times) as an entirety as fiction. Which is considered High 2-A

I disagree with adding random abilities from other creatures to a being that hasn't displayed them.

Magic, Gravity Manip, and Light Manip aren't inherited from the Player.
 
You don't explain where they are inherited from, tho.
 
"In addition, the Entities should receive a few more abilities either way. Due to their wordings in the Poem, they are implied to be the driving force behind everything that happens in the universe. This includes light moving, gravity, and such. They also talk of "Interfaces", which includes words and the idea of creation, destruction, shelter, and such. Again, their wording implies that they create said Interfaces."
 
Not a single interface is magic. Also, where is it implied.
 
"This player dreamed of sunlight and trees. Of fire and water. It dreamed it created. And it dreamed it destroyed. It dreamed it hunted, and was hunted. It dreamed of shelter.

Hah, the original interface. A million years old, and it still works. But what true structure did this player create, in the reality behind the screen?"

^ What interfaces include. It also directly implies that the game of Minecraft is an interface.

"No. It has not yet achieved the highest level. That, it must achieve in the long dream of life, not the short dream of a game."

If we take the implication that the game is one of those interfaces, this "long dream of life" is also an interface.

"Who are we? Once we were called the spirit of the mountain. Father sun, mother moon. Ancestral spirits, animal spirits. Jinn. Ghosts. The green man. Then gods, demons. Angels. Poltergeists. Aliens, extraterrestrials. Leptons, quarks. The words change. We do not change."

The above quote states that they've been called many things that have been stated to "create" the universe. Such as spirits, Father Sun, Mother Moon, Leptons, Quarks, blah blah blah. Implying they are the creators of the interfaces.

"Take a breath, now. Take another. Feel air in your lungs. Let your limbs return. Yes, move your fingers. Have a body again, under gravity, in air. Respawn in the long dream. There you are. Your body touching the universe again at every point, as though you were separate things. As though we were separate things."

Gravity stuff, in the long dream

"Sometimes it thought itself human, on the thin crust of a spinning globe of molten rock. The ball of molten rock circled a ball of blazing gas that was three hundred and thirty thousand times more massive than it. They were so far apart that light took eight minutes to cross the gap. The light was information from a star, and it could burn your skin from a hundred and fifty million kilometres away."

If we take the implication of the "long dream of life" being this. They're responsible for light moving across the gap of the Sun to Earth.
 
The long dream of life doesn't seem to be the game at all, just the real world.

That doesn't really imply they did anything, just that they have been given a lot of names that clearly don't mean much considering they vary from martians to gods.

If the gravity stuff hinges on real life being the game I doubt it.

So that's also a no from me.
 
Well it's ok for me, I'm agree to the OP. I'm in cafe, I couldn't post my entire evidence about the Player being is abstract existence.

I also have an idea how the Player is abstract.

brb
 
The "long dream of life" is still a "dream" equivalent to the Minecraft world.

"The seven billion billion billion atoms of the player's body were created, long before this game, in the heart of a star. So the player, too, is information from a star. And the player moves through a story, which is a forest of information planted by a man called Julian, on a flat, infinite world created by a man called Markus, that exists inside a small, private world created by the player, who inhabits a universe created by..."

This is what is equivalent to "the real world" in Minecraft.

The fact that the Player still thinks of our reality as a dream proves that it is at least comparable to the "short dream of the game" of Minecraft.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
It's kinda weird how literal you guys are taking something that is primarily composed of symbolism.
Click to expand...
Little bit.
 
Yeah. Also I will give another evidence "the real world" in Minecraft is in End Poem

Mc-epvp1

Sometimes it thought itself human, on the thin crust of a spinning globe of molten rock. The ball of molten rock circled a ball of blazing gas that was three hundred and thirty thousand times more massive than it. They were so far apart that light took eight minutes to cross the gap. The light was information from a star, and it could burn your skin from a hundred and fifty million kilometres away.

 
So it mimics real world stuff

So what
 
Edwardtruong2006 said:
It's... Kinda what the profiles do
Click to expand...
This genuinely has always struck me as a bit odd. The End Poem is basically a giant metaphor about people and how real life and the game are both "dreams", but to reach this next level, you must live the better dream, which is life.

It's a lot easier to argue that it's about living life than you literally being some abstract god entity.

Whatever the entities are still seem to be that, though.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
It's a lot easier to argue that it's about living life than you literally being some abstract god entity.
Click to expand...
You mean, you don't take them as literal. It's still narrative to fiction.

"Much like how Undertale's "Player" or Nintendo's "Player" are fictional versions of you, it seems like this Player is also a fictional version of the actual player. I'd be different if it was the creators or something talking to the Player, but in this case it's two fictional entities talking to the Player."
 
Fictional versions of you which are interacted with and treated as a higher being by things within the game world, though.

Doesn't everything about the Player come from the End Poem? Because in the Poem, the entities clarify that they aren't part of the game, and I don't believe anything else in the game ever makes mention of the player as some kind of higher being, unless I'm forgetting.
 
There's a few statements from the Mobestiary written from an in-game perspective.

Stuff about "Hard worlds" and "travelling to different worlds."

I think they mentioned squids shooting ink as a defense mechanism which has been stated from travellers in different worlds.
 
They only "thinks" of them as part of the game, it's still valid to long dream due to being narrative the Entities described the Player is treated to be fictionalized version of an actual player whilst being metaphor speech reference to our world.
 
A game acknowledging it's a game and you as the player seems different from a game treating itself as an actual world (sometimes even with "game mechanics") and you as a legitimate higher-dimensional or abstract entity, though.
 
Well the Player isn't regular human. But why people ignore the Entities stated the Player is also the program which allowed it to "dreamed" in the game tho.
 
Also, where is the player being talked to treated as fictional? Unless I'm missing something, the game acts like it is talking directly to you, the actual person reading the End Poem on your screen.

"It is reading our thoughts as though they were words on a screen.

That is how it chooses to imagine many things, when it is deep in the dream of a game."

"No. It has not yet achieved the highest level. That, it must achieve in the long dream of life, not the short dream of a game."

"Take a breath, now. Take another. Feel air in your lungs. Let your limbs return. Yes, move your fingers. Have a body again, under gravity, in air. Respawn in the long dream. There you are. Your body touching the universe again at every point, as though you were separate things. As though we were separate things."
 
Undertale doesn't treat you as literally the person behind the screen, though.

You do not actually have "Determination" (the power).

You do not actually sell your SOUL to Chara if you complete a genocide run.


I am a little confused by the comparison, since the End Poem seems to be talking about you in particular, the person behind the screen reading said poem, and how you can ascend to a "higher level" by living the long dream of life as opposed to the "short dream" of the game you were just playing.

It is metaphor speaking to you, as opposed to treating you as a character.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
I am a little confused by the comparison, since the End Poem seems to be talking about you in particular, the person behind the screen reading said poem, and how you can ascend to a "higher level" by living the long dream of life as opposed to the "short dream" of the game you were just playing.

It is metaphor speaking to you, as opposed to treating you as a character.
Click to expand...
That's how you don't take them as narrative to fiction. You contradict, they don't dreamed the short dream. The Entities literally stated you were the universe. By your logic, it's contradiction, they were narrative it's metaphor speaking at the same time treating you as a character. Player is playing behind the screen at the same time the Entities described you as dreaming. It wouldn't possible if you don't have omnipresents, but the player had omnipresents. It fit for the bill of creating said interfaces is to why I agreed to the OP. To steal @Saik's comment: Note that the Entities directly interact with The Player in ways that obviously wouldn't be possible (Reviving them, giving them a new body).
 
I really don't understand what you're saying. You're aware the long dream is real life, right? Like the player isn't actually asleep and dreaming in real life while playing Minecraft, but because what we consider "real life" is not the true, highest state of existence, it is unreal and akin to a dream.

The part you are taking as "the player is the universe, therefore they aren't you" is both in a way symbolic and in reference to the fact that the entities flat out state that the entire universe is connected. They even refer to the rest of the universe as "everything you think isn't you" and allude to the fact that the universe is not separate.

"Take a breath, now. Take another. Feel air in your lungs. Let your limbs return. Yes, move your fingers. Have a body again, under gravity, in air. Respawn in the long dream. There you are. Your body touching the universe again at every point, as though you were separate things. As though we were separate things."

"We are the universe. We are everything you think isn't you. You are looking at us now, through your skin and your eyes. And why does the universe touch your skin, and throw light on you? To see you, player. To know you. And to be known. I shall tell you a story."

"And the game was over and the player woke up from the dream. And the player began a new dream. And the player dreamed again, dreamed better. And the player was the universe. And the player was love."


Then you have stuff like this, which is even more clearly beating you over the head with a message of "the whole universe is connected".

"The atoms of the player were scattered in the grass, in the rivers, in the air, in the ground. A woman gathered the atoms; she drank and ate and inhaled; and the woman assembled the player, in her body.

And the player awoke, from the warm, dark world of its mother's body, into the long dream.

And the player was a new story, never told before, written in letters of DNA. And the player was a new program, never run before, generated by a sourcecode a billion years old. And the player was a new human, never alive before, made from nothing but milk and love."


It suggests that real life is a dream not because of you specifically being some higher-dimensional character or something, but that what we think of as real life is another dream and that through it we will achieve a higher understanding of the universe, and realize that we are not distinctly separate entities, but all interconnected.

"It worked, with a million others, to sculpt a true world in a fold of the [scrambled], and created a [scrambled]for [scrambled], in the [scrambled].

It cannot read that thought.

No. It has not yet achieved the highest level. That, it must achieve in the long dream of life, not the short dream of a game.

Does it know that we love it? That the universe is kind?

Sometimes, through the noise of its thoughts, it hears the universe, yes."


It's actually kind of a neat little piece about being human and the universe, and it's kind of annoying to simplify it to the degree of "the minecraft player is a character who is a Tier 2 abstract entity" when it's supposed to be about you. I believe going about it in a purely vs oriented way gives the entirely wrong viewpoint.


This is of course saying nothing about the entities, who are supposed to be the universe and exist beyond what we consider "real life", which people will one day reach by going through the dream of life. This is solely about the player, who is supposed to be you, right now, in real life/the long dream.

"Sometimes I do not care. Sometimes I wish to tell them, this world you take for truth is merely [scrambled] and [scrambled], I wish to tell them that they are [scrambled] in the [scrambled]. They see so little of reality, in their long dream."
 
Please read what I said above.

Also, the long dream is flat out said to be life, while the game is the short dream.

"No. It has not yet achieved the highest level. That, it must achieve in the long dream of life, not the short dream of a game."

Awakening from the short dream to the long dream is a direct analogy for pulling yourself from being engrossed in a game back into real life.

"This only would mean removing the Player profile"

Three of the four keys on the player's page have absolutely nothing to do with the End Poem.
 
Ugh I want to say slur word but it didn't happened. Something bad happen to me, I was using mobile now and while I was writing my comment then I did another mistake I accidentally pressed refresh then my writing is screwed which I vaguely remember it.

Sigh, I will stand back for a moment, though it seems my comments were made in rush, sorry, and seeing your response... I need to clear some misunderstanding from my previous comments.
 
Completely understandable.

That has happened to me multiple times before, and it's insanely frustrating.

If you need to step back, don't push yourself to immediately respond. We're not on a timer, and I should really be going to bed anyway, since I have things to do tomorrow and won't be on for most of the day.
 
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