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The Final Fantasy Verse-Wide Revisions You've All Been Waiting For (Dissidia + Gilgamesh Editions)

DMUA said:
Let people actually decide what they want instead of haphazardly asking staff for a Conclusion
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We could just come to an agreement though, and I'm not sure you meant it, but your response came off a bit stand-offish.

There are just certain things that can be disputed, and others that can't.
 
Genericstickman said:
Doesn't 11 Shinryu also have a 2-A statement of merging all dimensions?
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No one on this site seems to have any knowledge on XI (which makes sense since the profiles here are just copies of old OBD profiles on XI, and there aren't any updates to them here that reflect the changes over there) or Dissidia.

The feat that you're thinking about was done by the Vessel of Promathia in the Abyssean universe in XI. It was merging all of the universes in the XI multiverse. and XI's multiverse is stated to be infinite by the interdimensional-traveling Caith Sith (redundant since all Cait Sith travel through dimesnions) in Voidwalker. It was stopped by the Abyssean versions of the heroes. After it is stopped, the vessel absorbs Abyssean Selh'teus and Abyssean MC to become XI's Shinryu, which is distinct from the Shinryu that is common throughout the rest of the series. This feat scales to many characters including, but not limited to, XI's Cloud of Darkness, the Great Crystal, Prishe, Iroha, Altana, Promthia, Selh'teus, Sempurne, etc.

Secondly, Gilgamesh doesn't appear in XI. There is a character named Gilgamesh, but he is different than the one that springs up in the rest of the series. Just like Omega in XI is not connected to other Omega, and Shinryu is not connected either.

There are no contradictions between 012 and 013 and the series itself. The characters you see in 012 and 013 are not the real physical characters but manakins created from the memories of these characters. This, for instance, is how Cosmos is created. Besides the Warrior of Light, every other character that fights is created from floating memories of the characters and placed into the manakin. When the character cannot be revived by Shinryu again, or the war ends in 013, the memories go back to the original character, which is why in NT the characters remember particiapating in the original Dissidia conflicts. The 012 reports make the idea that they're summoned memories placed in mankins very clear:

"Cosmos summon memories.

Begins usinf them as her pawns.

Chaos follows suit.

...

Their memories are returned to the state of when they were first summoned.

Three damaged bodies, unable to withstand prufication, have perished."

And if you need to ask why Terra can use magic in NT, then it's the same line of thought as to why the villains are alive in NT.
 
Well the first one is debatable since it comes from the end of V where it's said at the start their only existed the void until the crystals were created and helped create the world, world in this context should mean universe since the void similarly to the interdimensional rift is connected to all universes so it existing before the universe would make some sense with the Cristal help creating the universe

the next one comes from The Legend of the Crystals OVA which has a pretty straight forward universal feat of the main villain using all the crystals to become one with the universe
 
The Crystals in V are used to separate two planets actually; the two "Worlds" in V are planets that use meteors to travel between.
 
The planets are separated by an interdimensional rift and the meteors are explicitly stated to "Warp" between the worlds. In addition, from what I've heard, Final Fantasy's void is a timeless one, meaning that the Crystals would have had to create the space-time of the world in the first place. Given that and what Genericstickman found from the anime, it makes more sense to assume the crystals to be universal.
 
Hmm... that's something. It may be worth taking a look at the rest of the ova. I took a quick look and they did mention that Deathgyunos using the power of three crystals would endanger the universe, being a god of oblivion and stuff like that. Might be worth a shot getting the full context. Or something along those lines.
 
It doesn't seem like anything will happen here.
 
Okay. So what do you want to get done and why, in summary?
 
It does mention "4 elements of the Universe", but statements like that are often vague. It just means everything in the Universe is made up of fire, water, wind, and earth. It is stated in the ending that both the beginning, and the end is the Void. And given the "Destroy all worlds, all dimensions, all possibilities" statement, that does imply the void destroys the entire multiverse. And we established the infinite number of universes, making the Void 2-A for sure.

However, I still think we need more proof about the Crystals separating two world as meaning universes as opposed to planets. And yes, the protagonists do use the portals in the meteor to travel to other meteors; but even meteors from the same planet have that. But those same meteors that came from Galuf's world have also been shown to fall from the sky. And I also know the teleport to Galuf's world via this, and we see them getting launched in the sky and falling onto an Island. But I don't see where it would be via traveling to alternate timelines.

That anime could be looked at to fine better stuff and scans can be posted. I wasn't aware of that Anime. But I still rest my case regarding Dissidia stuff; that Dissidia bosses should only scale to the FF1 cast.
 
They could only be 3-A as, unlike most Final Fantasy universes, this one was simply part of an already existing universe. Since they only defeated a physical avatar of Neo Exdeath, that Neo Exdeath becomes 2-A, 3-A, likely Low 2-C with manifestations.
 
That's way too iffy. 3-A is even weirder than making it 2-C or planetary because Universe in Final Fantasy quite literally means alternate timeline. It makes no sense to separate all physical matter across two universes without effecting space-time that separates universes to begin with. Alternate world should either mean an entire universe or another planet; not some randomly assumed 3-A sized pocket reality.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
That's way too iffy. 3-A is even weirder than making it 2-C or planetary because Universe in Final Fantasy quite literally means alternate timeline. It makes no sense to separate all physical matter across two universes without effecting space-time that separates universes to begin with. Alternate world should either mean an entire universe or another planet; not some randomly assumed 3-A sized pocket reality.
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The crystals were responsible for controlling the physical elements, as was stated in the anime. I'm well aware that Universe means alternate timeline, but this is a special case that was defined well before it was defined that Final Fantasy universes met "alternate timeline" criteria. It's not randomly assumed as this is what we're given by the game and anime. Devil May Cry met the same criteria, if I remember correctly, and was only given Low 2-C as a possibility because of a statement that it would reset time. If you want to argue that the two halves should be separate space-times, I can continue to make an argument for that as well.
 
Antvasima said:
Okay. So what do you want to get done and why, in summary?
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We're still discussing whether or not to upgrade the Final Fantasy 5 cast, as well as Dissidia scaling. Scaling FF5 to other verses has been rejected, something that the OP agreed with.
 
I mean, the elemental crystals perhaps could be 3-A, if there's a more elaborate statement. I just initially thought the "Separation between Bartz's world and Galuf's world" was getting interpreted as that again; which I already addressed thy that was iffy.

Though, gotta go to work in a bit.
 
I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I mean, the elemental crystals perhaps could be 3-A, if there's a more elaborate statement. I just initially thought the "Separation between Bartz's world and Galuf's world" was getting interpreted as that again; which I already addressed thy that was iffy.
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The separation of the two worlds is in fact being interpreted as that. As has been discussed in the opening post, it would be erroneous to assume the separation was only planetary. What's in the anime is simply further evidence supporting that.
 
Genericstickman said:
It might possibly scale to WOL maybe since they could fight 8 armed Gilgamesh
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"Base Gilgamesh only fought the Warrior of Light, who at that point was only 5-A for fighting Gilgamesh and not Low 2-C for Chronodia. We've already agreed to not scale between verses, and at this point are discussing FF5 and Dissidia alone.
 
Resistances still need to be addressed, also wasn't it somewhat implied by Gilgamesh that he got stronger after his appearance in V according to his Dissidia self (or it could just be gloating), I mean he'd later on fight WOL afterwards so… yeah I might be stretching it
 
The resistances that aren't dealing with the void seem otherwise unminded, only real thing being argued rn is the scaling and void stuff.
 
The resistances would apply to the dissidia key of everyone who appeared in the PSP games if that goes through, but they most definitely apply to the base games anyway.
 
Actually if we do take Gilgamesh's statement of him getting stronger from Dissidia after the events of V then that'd mean he'd be Low 2-C since he'd also later on fight WoL, but as I said that'd be a big stretch
 
We're not doing anything related to gilgamesh, and you continually bringing it up is going to make this thread more complicated than it already is. What's currently under discussion:

-Creating dissidia keys (first priority)

-The ff5 crystals being universal (second priority)
 
Base Gilgamesh doesn't have any Low 2-C feats and neither does God Kefka, it's only 5-A is the best feat in FF VI. There is one vague universal statement, but it;s too vague to use. Also, Low 2-C comes from a literal God Tier who's supposed to be well above pretty much the entire Dissidia cast. So none of the protagonists really should be the same tier as Chaos to begin with. Except for the FF1 cast, because it does set up the back story. There's also some contradictions regarding III.

We also have no idea when Dissidia takes place in regards to the other Final Fantasy games.
 
I agree that Gilgamesh doesn't have any direct Low 2-C feats and i have made it clear that that's been rejected, so please stop bringing it up.

Shinryu's manifestations, the planesgorgers, are Low 2-C as has also been described, and there are mutliple othe rLow 2-C characters such as Squall and Lightning. You've yet to provide anything to counter that.

"We also have no idea when Dissidia takes place in regards to the other Final Fantasy games" is also false, as has also been brought up multiple times in this thread.
 
It takes place right before the First Final Fantasy game, as that's the given backstory. But for XV, it takes place early/Mid, meaning Noctus shouldn't be all that powerful and thus anything Tier 2 is prone to outliers. Lightning isn't Low 2-C till Lightning Returns, and Squall isn't Low 2-C still end game either. But we don't know which period of Squall this is meaning we don't know if it's going to be prone to outliers for him or other FF VIII characters at this point in time. Also, people like Terra and Kefka don't appear to be end game; Kefka even appears to be base Kefka and not God Kefka. And the list goes on.
 
Lightning Returns lightning was used, and Squall mentions the final battle with ultimecia. Even discounting him, Ultimecia is Low 2-C in EVERY game.

"Outlier" is exactly why this is going to be a separate key. And Noctis being young was already discussed.
 
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