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The First vs the End: The First Firmament vs Death of the Endless

Interesting.

First Firmenant isn't baseline... However he's still powerful enough to be a threat / equal , not > in comparison to Multi-Eternity. Multi-Eternity is... Well into High 1-B.

Death was always borderline 1-A. And the buff she got makes it worse... And what her hax can affect is... Ridiculous. I'm still surprised she's still high 1-B.

She and any of her siblings stomps hard
 
Death will exist as long as anything capable of ending exists as she's the personification of the ultimate death of everything (even1-As, she said it wasn't lucifers time yet which implies that he will someday claim him plus even time will someday die)

So 1 for Death
 
Yeah, Death is the ultimate psychopomp, she's there wherever the concept of death exists and in fact, her omnipresence and reach is much greater than the Presence as you can escape the Presence's omnipresence and omniscience by going into the Void while you cant escape Death even by going to the Void or other Creations, Lucifer himself said that meeting Death is inevitable)

Also, I think her weakness should be reworded or removed as she seems to be exempt from the rules that the Endless follows as you can see from these scans

"'Because' it is the nature of Dreams, and ONLY of Dreams, to define Reality. Destiny is bound to 'existence'''. Death is limited by what she will or will not accept" -The Sandman: Overture

"Your kind is so bounded by your idiot rules...except for your big sister.She does whatever she pleases.She's a cold bitch.That one"

 
I'm not sure, but its definitely a High 2-A feat

There's a place in the Dreaming called the Dream Exchange where they trade dreams.Here it is shown that every dream is a reality in the Dreaming.Each of those paper is dream

https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/2/11.jpg

https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/2/12.jpg

The Dreaming affects both the dreaming and waking reality.Changing stories where everything comes from, like the story of garden of Eden affects everything, not just the Dreaming

https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/3/21.jpg

https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/3/14.jpg

The Dreaming is infinite

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...4/5877793-sandman+2+his+realm+is+infinite.jpg

All gods came from the Dreaming and they will all eventually return to the Dreaming

https://static.comicvine.com/upload...man+30+gods+are+born+and+die+in+his+realm.jpg

The Dreamings form shifts and eddies

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HjJitowFl...OblOmyihEbxDTPQcP3-gCCo/s1600-Ic42/RCO004.jpg

Ocean/River of time in the Dreaming can be used to time travel

https://readcomics.io/images/manga/the-dreaming/7/16.jpg

A Dream Vortex in Kamandi's world

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/QE77duFh5m...qQyFk8pR_zfWQnnpxP61LCoHY8JT-x0bvASkQjQ=s1600

A Vortex can also be a person like Rose Walker

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2RiyeXHC24U/Vpy6gVfs08I/AAAAAAAANQc/W3WpsXa0fgA/s1600-Ic42/RCO014.jpg

A Vortex cut through time, space and realities.Everything is possible in a Vortex

https://i.imgur.com/lTXFyRC.jpg

It's like a nexus of infinite realities where every possible universe could be viewed or entered

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/l7KBa4As64...G8Hp8_f871ae7Ph8YIczyQ6SdiGjjErMPVb44AQ=s1600

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/5lRl-jLmrR...vAhMG1p-OrXTWdfx3NfNx3ovAHXLrescwitY3Gg=s1600

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/98JEFEmXkv...kmoBAV1jwEmQVXl9kODgiu53fsA62YuqJr4Ivrg=s1600
 
Dang son... Well... Firmanent is going to need to find a gravestone soon....

Off-topic (somewhar), but didn't Elaine warp the entire Dreaming to her will , or am I misinterpreting the event ?
 
The First Firmament is apparently the most powerful High 1-B in Marvel according to the words of others from other threads, so if this is true, he would be stronger than Pre-Retcon Beyonder.
 
Yeah, but Death already beat Pre Retcon Beyonder and stalemated Crimson King who stomped Beyonder and First of the Firmament
 
The 2 strongest characters whose fights can be added to profiles, interesting and deserving of a bump.

Both are borderline 1-a
 
@LordWhis

Firmament would get stomped by CK and Gan as well as the Downstreamers. All three of the latter are At least High 1-B.

That being said, Death should handily take this due to range.
 
@Aeyu:

I thought that FF doesn't have an atleast because he is a being who is made up of universes and therefore it is impossible for him to be stronger than high 1-b but in terms of power he is borderline 1-a.
 
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