"The Games aren't canon to the Books Nor are the Books canon to the Games"

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Apparently the books and the games have no correlation to each other they both have different events, different characters, and different stories to tell...

Even tho there are contradicting statements and proof that certain people that have never even appeared in the games have actaully existed and and they have been a major figure in the witcher books

Even minor events that happened in the books seemed to referenced a lot in the games

But still the arugment stands, Do the games and the books have any correlation to each other?

 

[Ogbunabali]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...r-of-the-witcher-books-thinks-about-the-games

Here's an interview stating that the games and books aren't canon to each other.

And a quote by SpookyShadow in Polish by the creator of the books

gra komputerowa w najmniejszym nawet stopniu nie mo┼╝e by─ç uwa┼╝ana za kontynuacj─Ö cyklu wied┼║mi┼äskiego, ani za sequel ani za ci─àg dalszy wydarze┼ä opisanych w ostatnim tomie opowieści "wied┼║mi┼äskich", zatytu┼éowanym "Pani Jeziora". Wszelkie adaptacje - filmy, komiksy czy te┼╝ gry, w tym i gra "The Witcher", s─à wy┼é─àcznie adaptacjami, stanowi─à ca┼ékowicie odr─Öbne byty fabularne, b─Öd─àce dzie┼éem ich twórców

With the last sentence literally saying this

All adaptations - movies, comics or games, in and the game "The Witcher" are purely adaptations, they are completely separate story entities that were the work of their creators

As I said, I don't know if currently the game profiles use the books, but if they do they shouldn't unless CD Projekt has explicitly stated that any and all events of the books happened in games, or the games describe the book feats themselves.

Witcher games should be treated as any other adaptation, where they need to show the feats from their original source material if they want to use them, like we do for every single other adaptations. Don't see why it would get special privileges.

 

[SpookyShadow]

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/4076249?useskin=oasis#66

Look at my last comment, entire response, just needed to look at Witcher game carton.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Which just says it's an adaptation of the books. We already know that The Witcher games are adaptation of the Wicher books.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Actually it being adaptation only helps, and as I have said Sapkowski is only one side of the coin that proves games are not canon to the books.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Nope. Sapkowski explicitly states that they aren't canon to each other both in the interview, and in the quote you generously provided.

That quote you posted just says that the Witcher games are adapted from the Witcher books. I don't see why you would think we didn't know that.

 

[SpookyShadow]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3fmCiasdEDY

Here you have the entire context of what Sapkowski said

 

[SpookyShadow]

I can sometime ask Sapkowski himself or CDPR men on some events, they are pretty open themselves

 

[KLOL506]

Pretty sure we concluded that the books are indeed canon to the games and not the other way around.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Based on what evidence?

 

[KLOL506]

Also what Sapkowski says really doesn't matter if the games state otherwise. The game makes countless references to the book's events.

 

[SpookyShadow]

The interview? The opinion of the author himself? Like, you've said yourself that you care only about the opinion of the author so here you go.

And I also care more about the opinion of the authors, which basically the games are, and it's written clearly on carton of every game.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Also what Sapkowski says really doesn't matter if the games state otherwise. The game makes countless references to the book's events.

The games can make references to the books's events, it's an adaptation. That doesn't mean that every single detail in the books happened in the games, unless specifically stated. Especially since a lot of things are contradicted in the first place anyway.

 

[KLOL506]

Based on what evidence?

Based on the events of the game itself? The Wild Hunt? Geralt surviving the massacre, him making references to Vilgefortz in Witcher 1 and 3?

 

[SpookyShadow]

Everything specifically happened, try to find a contradiction, I'll wait. The only plot twists were that Geralt did survive the non-human Pogrom and Regis survived the encounter with Vilgefortz on Thanedd. Literally NO other plot twists to make games actually happen (because what Witcher without Geralt would be?)

Leo Bonhart happened. Vilgefortz is mentioned multiple times. Ciri is an adult. Pogrom happened. Everything is even stated in character journals.

 

[KLOL506]

Again, the games only accept the book to be canon to them, not the other way around. And in the case of the games, CD Projekt has the higher authority to be honest, since Sapkowski and CD Projekt fell out.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Based on the events of the game itself? The Wild Hunt? Geralt surviving the massacre, him making references to Vilgefortz in Witcher 1 and 3?

That's just evidence that the games are an adaptation of the books, not that every single detail that happened in the books happened in the games.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Again, the games only accept the book to be canon to them, not the other way around. And in the case of the games, CD Projekt has the higher authority to be honest, since Sapkowski and CD Projekt fell out.

And I've been asking for quotes that CD Projekt has explicitly stated that everything in the books happened in the games (or anything similar to this). So far no one has given anything.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Okay, like I said, try to find some contradictions to book lore that aren't lore twists to make games happen which was mentioned by Andrzej in interview. I'll wait.

 

[KLOL506]

Wrong, even Blood and Wine refers to what happened to Regis when Vilgefortz turned him into a puddle.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Wrong, even Blood and Wine refers to what happened to Regis when Vilgefortz turned him into a puddle.

Again, not evidence. Just proof that this is an adaptation.

 

[SpookyShadow]

"So far no one has given anything."

Yeah I have specifically gave you the quote from game carton itself and explained what the man who wrote the books said, but you are just being ignorant about most arguments.

 

[Ogbunabali]

"So far no one has given anything."

Yeah I have specifically gave you the quote from game carton itself and explained what the man who wrote the books said, but you are just being ignorant about most arguments.

No.

You have given me a quote that the games are an adaptation of the books. Which everyone knows, I don't need a quote to tell me that.

 

[SpookyShadow]

What's your definition of adaptation, if I can know? Out of the entire monologue of Sapkowski that basically debunks this thread, you chose this specific word, so explain. You ignore every argument that makes sense that we say, and go again asking about evidence. I don't understand.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The difference is that just because general events are the same it does not mean every single detail is the same.

This would be the same as giving every single verse that's set in the lovercraft universe tier 0 because it's an adaptation to the original, without any proof that it's tier 0 in the adaptation (extreme example to show the point).

 

[SpookyShadow]

So if that's your main argument right now, I'll repeat myself third time, go ahead and try to find a contradiction of books in the lore while every character journals are written by CDPR and are purely based on the book lore. Additional characters don't count because it's the work based on Andrzej's work that was continued by their own interpretation which was clearly stated.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

The book events have already happened in the games but the game events aren't supposed to have taken place after the book events according to Sapkowski's salt filled interviews.

 

[Ogbunabali]

So if that's your main argument right now, I'll repeat myself third time, go ahead and try to find a contradiction of books in the lore while every character journals are written by CDPR and are purely based on the book lore. Additional characters don't count because it's the work based on Andrzej's work that was continued by their own interpretation which was clearly stated.

No.

I don't prove a negative. You need to prove a positive. You need to prove to me that every single detail is the same. Not for me to prove to you that it isn't.

 

[Ogbunabali]

The book events have already happened in the games but the game events aren't supposed to have taken place after the book events according to Sapkowski's salt filled interviews.

That doesn't mean that every single detail that has ever happened in the books has happened in the games, only the ones explicitly shown.

 

[SpookyShadow]

No no no no, go ahead. Don't choose the easy side. I have already proven that every single character journal and lore, and ENTIRE Witcher world is purely based on game lore, with minimal story twists to make the game happen.

 

[Ogbunabali]

No no no no, go ahead. Don't choose the easy side. I have already proven that every single character journal and lore, and ENTIRE Witcher world is purely based on game lore, with minimal story twists to make the game happen.

It's not an easy way. It's called burden of proof.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I'll repeat myself for fifth time maybe. Go ahead and find contradictions. I don't expect from CDPR to detail literally every book in their own continuation, but everything is explicitly in the character journals and the lore itself.

 

[The_Impress]

Cool it, y'all, it takes a second to send folks to the RVR, don't let that happen and watch ya tones.

Personally I'd be completely okay with scaling books to games if there exists a statement in light of this.

 

[SpookyShadow]

Let me ask you, where did someone here violate the rules? Because the debate is spicy doesn't mean it's violating the rules.

 

[Ogbunabali]

I'll repeat myself for fifth time maybe. Go ahead and find contradictions. I don't expect from CDPR to detail literally every book in their own continuation, but everything is explicitly in the character journals and the lore itself.

You need to prove to me that that's the case. Not the other way around. Burden of proof is on you. Not for me to prove a negative.

 

[TacticalNuke002]

I'm pretty sure major book events are referenced at multiple points, like Nivellen, or Renfri and others. You seriously can't expect the games to continuously reference everything of the books, they have their own story to tell after all.

 

[KLOL506]

Only variations AFAIK are the colors of Quen and Heliotrope, and Djikstra himself (At least, his appearance and his relationship with Phillippa Eilhart), otherwise the rest of the events in the book happen exactly as written.

Only the books being canon to the games is why we considered making a game profile for Vilgefortz in the first place.

 

[SpookyShadow]

I already have proven. The fact that Sapkowski, who's opinion is partially irrelevant here, said it's "adaptation" doesn't matter. Games are based on the books. And everything in the games says that. So you also should prove your point, don't make me repeat myself for sixth time.

 

[AngeronTheSkyHighAnger]

Alright i'm gonna be honest with you

Do actually know the plot of the games or the books to any extent to be making these arguments

 

[Ogbunabali]

Only variations AFAIK are the colors of Quen and Heliotrope, and Djikstra himself (At least, his appearance and his relationship with Phillippa Eilhart), otherwise the rest of the events in the book happen exactly as written.

Only the books being canon to the games is why we considered making a game profile for Vilgefortz in the first place.

That still only means that you can use the events that are referenced, not every other scenario not referenced.