The problem of Terraria and its Kinetic Energy scaling

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

I've seen several threads questioning the use of kinetic energy to wank character levels over the past few months, so it took me by surprise to find out that a large portion of terraria scaling comes from King Slime's kinetic energy feat making it small town level, despite nothing else implying that level.

Now to be fair, I also disagree with the meteors being high hypersonic, considering even prehardmode guns shoot bullets faster than this hardmode weapon's meteor projectiles. It's open to discussion, but that's not my priority here.

My priority is to change King Slime's tier and all scaling characters. Can we not just scale it to an explosive weapon that it can survive? I'm not sure if it can survive a holy hand grenade, but if it can we can scale King Slime to that instead.

Edit: apparently the Wall of Flesh suffers the same sort of problem. Can we not just scale it to the amount of transmutation the Ancient Spirits of Light and Darkness do when changing biomes? Honestly I'd think that'd upgrade the Wall of Flesh, but at least it makes more sense than basing it off of kinetic energy.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

Yeah I was thinking about making a similar thread a couple of weeks ago, but decided to wait until the next update to see if the monster bios give a usable tier.

But for now the KE stuff needs to be removed.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

bump

 

[Overlord775]

I agree witb removing the KE stats, we are too strict with KE feats to use them

but, i disagree with the meteorites not being High Hypersonic because guns shoot faster, with the same argument bullets would be only slightly faster than the shoots of a blowpipe

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

bump

 

[Mr. Bambu]

"despite nothing else implying that level"

Except the kinetic energies of other bosses around him. The logic being applied doesn't make sense. Comparing to a gun of all things is one of the most common things in video games, in Sekiro bullets move nearly as fast as natural lightning. So again, the logic being applied is false.

The issue with your post is that Terraria actually does by all accounts fit into current Kinetic Energy standards. Both the Wall of Flesh and the King Slime attack by raw slamming into their enemies. So no, I reject this thread as of right now.

 

[Overlord775]

Uh, right

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

The issue with your post is that Terraria actually does by all accounts fit into current Kinetic Energy standards. Both the Wall of Flesh and the King Slime attack by raw slamming into their enemies.

I don't see how that fits into the criteria for Kinetic Energy standards at a

ll. Isn't a punch just a fist slamming into an enemy, wouldn't that make all non-FTL characters perfectly applicable?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Second rule.

• The kinetic energy displayed is directly shown to be as a result of speed, or at least heavily implied to be so. Examples would be: A meteor crashing into the ground, as well as a Kaiju moving at full speed.

Very large creatures moving are calculated using speed, same for moving very vast objects. The projectile rule also applies when you consider the fact that both named bosses can validly use themselves as a projectile and that's literally the only way King Slime can attack.

 

[DMUA]

If it's not inconsistent with their other showings and they do indeed move at a certain speed to yeet themselves into someone, yes it would be fine for everyone below FTL

 

[Qawsedf234]

KE can only now be used if they showcase environmental damage now (I believe).

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Not the case. The discussion of environmental damage in that thread concerned which should take priority in the event of both- the environmental damage, or the KE.

 

[Qawsedf234]

If it's not inconsistent with their other showings and they do indeed move at a certain speed to yeet themselves into someone, yes it would be fine for everyone below FTL

They have no other showings. As for the KE nothing ever indicates anything even remotely close to the given numbers as far as I know.

 

[Overlord775]

Well, there's actually one feat on that level

King Slime is likely the creator of the Slime Rain,

 

[Qawsedf234]

If true that would make them more realistic

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Isn't slime rain just slimes falling, with no clouds whatsoever? Doubt it's very tier applicable.

 

[Overlord775]

Yes, it's not really quantifiable, but it shows King Slime can affect large areas with his powers

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Is it it's powers tough? From what I understand nothing implies that beyond it appearing after you kill enough slimes, which is not quite the best reason to assume that it can summon hundreds of slimes.

Plus, again, this does not justify KE here. And from what I'm seeing nothing is on that level.

 

[Overlord775]

The Slime Rain immidiatly ends when King Slime is killed, so one would assume he's the one creating it.

Also, the slime rain affects the entirity of the Terraria World, so i affects a VERY large area.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

It also ends over time without it, and it fails to use it when found normally.

And it does not justify a tier regardless.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The other abilities on that level are the kinetic energies of other bosses also slamming into you with their body. Queen Bee, Eye of Cthulhu, etc for lower tiers. This is literally their means of attack, I am telling you, this fits into the current rules regarding kinetic energy feats.

 

[DMUA]

Actually

Slime is a lot denser then water

If he's making it rain blobs of slime, that sounds a bit Low 7-B

Of course it's also probably environmental destruction anyways

 

[Damage3245]

A question I feel the need to ask since I am semi-familiar with Terraria.

The meteors summoned by the Meteor Staff are quite small, no? Wouldn't their entry-speed be affected by the atmosphere they pass through which would slow them down?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Only large asteroids maintain most of their speed. Small ones would lose a lot of it.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Bump

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

bump

 

[Damage3245]

I do find that the way the current statistics are set up to be weird. Why are the meteors speed being used for everything?

Aren't there real-life guns in Terraria? Can't we use the speed from them for scaling?

 

[Andytrenom]

One thing I can say is that none of the new additions to the Kinetic energy rules disqualify the feat. Blatantly using your speed and mass for an attack still qualifies as applicable KE, so if that's what is happening here, the feat should be legit

The only other rule relevant to the arguments seems to be "The calculated kinetic energy value is heavily inconsistent with the rest of the cast in the series", which someone knowledgeable on the verse will have to judge. I will however point out that it requires the showing to be "heavily inconsistent" which I feel would require actual contradictions or explicit caps on a character's power, rather than the other feats just being of a lower scale

 

[Overlord775]

I am pretty sure the only other feats in Pre-Hardmore Terraria are the explosives

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

Pre-Hardmode Terraria is nearly completely featless pretty much, which is why I offered the explosives number.

The calc comes from using meteors from a magic staff to scale the Slime's speed to. Even if for some reson people call those magic meteors legit, it's from a Hardmode tier, which wouldn't even realistically happen as a legitimate event to happen unless you go to a new world with the latest gear. But by that logic, you could scale lower characters to higher tiers for taking several strikes from Hardmode weapons.

For example, I occasionally grind cash on hardmode by summoning multiple eyes of Cthulus, and they can survive not a few, but several strikes from hardmode gear. It would be wrong to scale pre-hardmode characters to hardmode gear, which is where the town level calc comes from.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The only other feats pre-hardmode are in fact very large things crashing into other things (bosses). The fact that it is practically the same feat performed by a variety of creatures doesn't actually change the fact that they are different feats that support the current ones.

@Damage There are. Meteors are just faster than bullets irl.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

But that's the attack of nearly every melee mob in the game. It's not like it's something unique.

And that meteor staff from hardmode (explained previously) is powered by mana, signifying that it's a magical attack.

There's even a meteor event where an actual meteor lands, signifying the difference between a real and a magical meteor in Terraria.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, pretty much every show or game with a speedster has multiple characters attacking while moving fast, that doesn't disqualify KE not being applied on it's own.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It being not unique sort of proves my point.

Cool, it is a magical attack that summons a physical element.

 

[DeathstroketheHedgehog]

It being not unique sort of proves my point.

I'm not seeing your perspective, because I see this as countering your point.

Cool, it is a magical attack that summons a physical element.

So if you'll admit it's a magical attack that you claim "summons a physical element", where's the proof that it has natural meteor speeds as the calc suggests? That it looks like a meteor?

 

[Damage3245]

I think that Deathstroke makes a good point.

I'm not sure what the basis is for assuming natural meteor speeds, when it could just be a magical projectile that resembles a meteor and travels far slower than a natural one.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

It really doesn't counter my point. The feat not being unique proves that there are many other examples to support the current ratings.

If that's what you're getting at then why didn't you start with that? The feats themselves are legitimate, I'm neutral as to considering the meteor legitimate or not. On one hand we have evidence of the magic in the verse summoning real iterations (stormclouds to create lightning, for example) and on the other it's magically created so speed is unknown I guess. THAT doesn't matter. The fact that the feats are very much real is what I have been arguing for and what this thread is about.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

I mean, using the base speed for meteors for no reason when we have an item that measures speed, and could be used to calc the actual speed of King Slime itself rather than arbitrarily scaling it to the meteors, seems strange.

Hell, we could even calc the speed of the meteors if we wanted to,

 

[Mr. Bambu]

These are all legitimate points. My arguments are against the whole "lol lets not scale to these giant monsters throwing themselves to attack as KE lol". I don't mind changing speed stuff. Bullets or the speed measuring thing are both sufficient.