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The Real Cal Howard VS Celestial Pegasus

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Can I be honest?

Some people are boring me so badly with the persistence in throwing Lavos against type 1 Abstracts ever since I stablished the "There's nothing conceptual in CT, as the profiles current stand Lavos can't affect Conceptual stuff" that I might go ahead and make the blog for the Revision on how Dreams in Chrono Universe can very much be Concepts just to see them crying in the corner once I inevitably get it accepted.

I'm saying this unironically, by the way.

I've been with this in hand since forever but said to myself "Not worth the time I'd spend on it" but if that would make the people who keep doing this eat their words and stop this already, I might. Just for the sake of it.

Because for once I think my thoughts here are aligning with Cal's on this: Why are you making matches for Lavos against type 1 abstracts as the page currently is?

I know exactly how this goes. First you will say throughout the whole thread that "Lavos can't do anything against a type 1 Abstract or Concepts" THEN you will proceed to say the match is "fair" and can be added once everyone agrees, which they naturally should as it's true.

...What's the catch, really? Maybe some stealth attempt at Making Lavos compete with Bill Cipher for worst Loss Record or someth---Sorry, I have no basis for claiming this. I'm not angry either, just venting my frustration at how pointless this sounds when this exact same pattern is being repeated so many times for the same character.

I'll outright change my profile pic to this to express my feeling towards someone making matches they already know the result to as it currently is ,and later claiming they aren't stomps after claiming for the whole thread "Oh Lavos can't do a thing to Type 1 gg".
MB Fp
 
Simon facepalm
I prefer this facepalm image, personally


And to the best of my knowledge, Demiurge is a type 1 abstract of a type 3 concept
 
Unless Verse Equalization says that those ideas and dreams are = Thoughts and Dreams Lavos eats in its home verse, in which case there's a wincon as the thing could eventually consume them all.
 
I don't think that Demiurge is a concept.

Abstract yes, but she is made of dreams or something. I recall CP saying that during the AE revisions .

Or maybe i'm horribly wrong because it was changed and I don't know it
 
@Kaltias If Demiurge isn't a Concept should it really have the exact same type of AE as Madoka?

Besides, it says it's made of Ideas or something.
 
ShadowWarrior1999 said:
Really?

I figured Lavos's non-existence erasure is what allows him to fight type 1 abstracts, otherwise that Madoka match is a stomp.
Click to expand...
Might be. Here's the thing: Back in the day AE wasn't as divided as it is now, so it was generally accepted that Lavos being able to interact with Dreams, Thoughts Memories and such would also allow him to Interact with Madoka. With the revisions on AE, I'm relatively sure that may not be true anymore. And I forgot to take that wholly into account when I voted "Madoka low diffs" in that thread because Absorption should be higher scale but doesn't matter either way if Lavos just tries to absorb some manifestation while her being as a concept remains there.

---

That said, contrary to what I've been saying for like a year now and me memeing about it, there is a considerable chance that Dreams in CT are concepts instead of just "lolwhateverpeopledreamaboutwhentheysleep" (about 85% sure by now). But I'm the last person to make that claim without a proper blog and revision on it so it's a non-factor unless I decide to do it later down the road.

Among other things that stop me from doing it, I was also waiting for an important translation from the RAW ending of Cross from ALRF to check on something important regarding that window of doubt I still have that I can't ignore, but he is busy atm. And so am I.

But I didn't mention this with anyone so making matches for Lavos against Conceptual/Abstract 1 Anything atm is most of the time like asking me to slap a ghost and then saying it was a fair match for me.
 
But again, if Verse equalization says Lavos being capable of absorbing thoughts, dreams and memories in its home verse means in turn that it can affect the things Demiurge is made of, then yeah, it can get absorbed given the chance.

Which I'm not sure if it's the case since these novels do tend to love CONCEPTS CONCEPTS CONCEPTS
 
@Fate

It isn't based on being a concept or not.

Type 1 = Whatever abstraction you embody, you are one with it, completely. Stabbing you is stabbing the abstraction, so to speak.

Type 2 = Type 8 immortality based on the abstraction basically. You get stabbed but you don't die

Type 3 = No immortality stuff, but you can manipulate it.

Conceptual abstracts are one step above the others, so to speak, but the consensus was that it wouldn't be limited to them, every abstraction works.

As for Demiurge, idk really. "Ideas" can be "concepts" but it could be "stuff that someone imagined"
 
Fun fact about lavos vs Altair

Lavos can't effect Altair at all and it's only due to the infinite dupe thing that it was inconclusive
 
I mean...does being an idea equal Type 1 Abstract? I thought you had to literally be stated to be a concept to be a Type 1 Abstract...

inb4 every Digimon is a Type 1 Abstract.
 
Altair js a type 4 concept.

Legit murdering humanity across her verse would kill her
 
Kaltias said:
As for Demiurge, idk really. "Ideas" can be "concepts" but it could be "stuff that someone imagined"
Click to expand...
Yeah, the whole "made of ideas and dreams" plus type 1 led me to the thought of a Concept, honestly.

Re-checking the scan after reading your reply it says "I am the ideas and dreams of the countless souls within the eye."

What we get from this is a complete game changer here. If it's literal ideas as in concepts, Lavos can't do jack here and we do go back to my first reply as this being a match without purpose. If it's the latter and just ideas as in 'whatever those countless souls thought and dreamed about', the immortality is moot and Lavos probs nukes/absorbs/erases/something since Demiurge doesn't seem to have much scalling or survival options going for it other than that here.

Sounds like a bad matchup for one or another side if we look at it like this, tbh.
 
ZacharyGrossman273 said:
Yeah but

Lavos doesent know that
Click to expand...
It's hilarious how people even use this as an argument.

It shows a completely "sent in the wrong direction" interpretation of Lavos.

"Murdering all of humanity" and pretty much everything else because it can is something Lavos frequently does just because even while doing battle against others. Somehow we got in threads sometimes people saying "Oh Lavos doesn't know."

Lavos borderline lifewipes in CT because "it woke up". The thought of Lavos not murdering everything in sight as long as it can if provoked into battle is antithesis to its being and portrayal in the whole series.
 
Another thing is that Lavos has Multiversal+ Cosmic Awareness since base stamped on its profile but that is ignored in threads too. RIP
 
You do know this is stomp either way, right?

If Demiurge is a concept, Lavos can't do a thing.

If Demiurge isn't a concept, she gets absorbed/erased/picksomethingoutofthatlist along with the entirety of existence, nonexistence, thoughts, dreams, memories and so on before this even becomes a thing.
 
FateAlbane said:
You do know this is stomp either way, right?
If Demiurge is a concept, Lavos can't do a thing.

If Demiurge isn't a concept, she gets absorbed/erased/picksomethingoutofthatlist along with the entirety of existence, nonexistence, thoughts, dreams, memories and so on before this even becomes a thing.
Click to expand...
Oh


.......Shit
 
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