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The star of the ring! Mario vs Sonic in their base (Concluded)

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Yes, and it links to a page of the skills you can equip to Shahra’s ring, it’s an ability Sonic can only use with the ring, like Time and Speed Break.
 
The soul resurrection in Black Knight works differently, it just uses soul gauge energy as health so Sonic doesn’t die if he lacks rings, it doesn’t actually do revivals.
 
JJSliderman said:
The soul resurrection in Black Knight works differently, it just uses soul gauge energy as health so Sonic doesn’t die if he lacks rings, it doesn’t actually do revivals.
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The profile accepts as a revival, he uses his soul energy to not die and still live coming back to life, this is what it is accepted
 
Either way Sonic requires soul energy to do it, and he can’t get soul energy while he’s dead, so it doesn’t actually bring him back, it just stops him from dying.
 
JJSliderman said:
Either way Sonic requires soul energy to do it, and he can’t get soul energy while he’s dead
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haven't you saw what shake posted? He gains it by running, it could as well as be limitless since mario can't really make sonic stop to run for him to not have soul energy, also how would mario kill sonic exactly?

JJSliderman said:
, so it doesn’t actually bring him back, it just stops him from dying.
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It does bring him back, that is the whole point of it
 
Considering Sonic doesn’t unlock the soul gauge in Black Knight until getting Caliburn, you could argue that the latter is necessary for Sonic to do soul res, like Shahra’s ring, which makes it something Mario can get rid of as well
 
JJSliderman said:
Considering Sonic doesn’t unlock the soul gauge in Black Knight until getting Caliburn, you could argue that the latter is necessary for Sonic to do soul res
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nothing is ever said that he needs caliburn, in fact the upgrade to have it is not an caliburn upgrade iirc

JJSliderman said:
, like Shahra’s ring, which makes it something Mario can get rid of as well
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And that sonic can instantly grap again with him instant blits speed amps
 
Sonic gets upgrades in BK by improving his “proficiency” with combat styles, but the upgrades only occur after Sonic has Caliburn, and not when Sonic has the basic tutorial sword.
 
JJSliderman said:
Sonic gets upgrades in BK by improving his “proficiency” with combat styles, but the upgrades only occur after Sonic has Caliburn, and not when Sonic has the basic tutorial sword.
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You said it yourself, it is because of his "proficiency" in combat styles and not because of caliburn, sonic doesn't have acess to the upgrade place until after the tutorial area where he gets caliburn
 
Are you seriously trying to argue semantics over a mechanic that appears in both games, nulling your entire argument because Caliburn never appears in Secret Rings?

User was right, you are very convenient in ignoring game mechanics for Mario while applying them to Sonic. It's getting annoying .
 
The mechanic appears in both games but in both games they introduce a special McGuffin Sonic uses for the entire game, and these are the only two games with soul abilities, so it’s not unreasonable that the abilities are tied to these items
 
Also if we are using the argument that "Mario can just destroy Sonic's items" why can't Sonic do the same? You nitpick for Sonic while you overlook several things for Mario
 
Because Mario has gloves and badges that give him an infinite amount of items, and 1-ups respawn him with all his clothes and such intact, including his gloves.
 
JJSliderman said:
The mechanic appears in both games but in both games they introduce a special McGuffin Sonic uses for the entire game, and these are the only two games with soul abilities, so it’s not unreasonable that the abilities are tied to these items
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That's not what I'm arguing against, I even agree with you.

But you're arguing Sonic will somehow not only be disarmed once with Shahra's ring, but TWICE with Caliburn, and then assuming Mario can somehow then manage to kill Sonic despite numerous advantages (4x greater reaction speed, Danger Sense, Speed Amps) which make it a tall task, AND assuming Sonic won't use Chaos Control (the literal insta-win button) with his back against the wall? Please.

Limitless Revives won't matter because Sonic eventually BFRs him to a different Space-Time (and I saw no counter to such happening during the thread).
 
Well okay, if you assume that BFR’ing to other dimensions would stop Mario’s clocks and earlier times, then yeah I can see Sonic winning (however the clocks can bring enemies back outside of Bowser’s stomach if they got sucked in)

I also didn’t just say Sonic could be disarmed by Mario stealing the items, Mario can just destroy them potentially as a byproduct of his attacks (since these items only scale to Black Knight Sonic who is not galaxy tier)

Small thing, but perception manip is also countered by Zone Speed, so they cancel out.

I was also gonna say Mario has time manipulation negating gear but I guess Chaos Control is accepted as layered so, eh.
 
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ShakeResounding said:
That's not what I'm arguing against, I even agree with you.

But you're arguing Sonic will somehow not only be disarmed once with Shahra's ring, but TWICE with Caliburn, and then assuming Mario can somehow then manage to kill Sonic despite numerous advantages (4x greater reaction speed, Danger Sense, Speed Amps) which make it a tall task, AND assuming Sonic won't use Chaos Control (the literal insta-win button) with his back against the wall? Please.

Limitless Revives won't matter because Sonic eventually BFRs him to a different Space-Time (and I saw no counter to such happening during the thread).
Click to expand...
And don't forget that Mario will instantly know exactly how Sonic's power ups work, and that he will be using the best combination of equipment possible and ignoring that 1-UPs don't work that way with those equipments in the same game
 
JJSliderman said:
Well okay, if you assume that BFR’ing to other dimensions would stop Mario’s clocks and earlier times, then yeah I can see Sonic winning (however the clocks can bring enemies back outside of Bowser’s stomach if they got sucked in)
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Escaping Bowser's stomach /=/ travelling to a different universe, this ain't Kirby.
I also didn’t just say Sonic could be disarmed by Mario stealing the items, Mario can just destroy them potentially as a byproduct of his attacks (since these items only scale to Black Knight Sonic who is not galaxy tier)
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Hitting Shahra's ring is basically striking Sonic himself. Considering his tendency to curl into a ball, that will still be difficult. For Caliburn, yeah I suppose you have an argument since the difference is over 20x. That'll only result in an enraged Sonic, however.
Small thing, but perception manip is also countered by Zone Speed, so they cancel out.
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Nah, because Sonic has the naturally greater reaction speed and his Parry perception amp boosts that even further.
 
Well, since Retry clocks and ET haven’t shown interdimensional range in their resetting, I guess I’ll vote for Sonic.
 
AStrangeverse said:
cheers to that, and thanks for the scan

I don't think Hoghedge would be able to deal any lasting damage, even with his amps, due to badges like Mayo's probability ones reducing the chances of Cinos getting off any particular moves on him, badges like Last Stand and Return Postage being able to halve the damage Jumpman would take should he be in critical condition and also returning half of the damage dealt back to Blue Man respectively. Hell, with items like the Boost Star or the Ruby Star, Malleo wouldn't even need to be near Sunky to damage him

there's also equipment like the Guard Shell series that can completely nullify any physical harm Maurice may land on Red Stache, and numerous healing items (some even passive) that'll constantly heal Mario in the process, making that task hella difficult

so once Mario's primary methods of offense do him barely any good, there shouldn't be any reason to doubt he'd resort to his extensive arsenal

I could honestly see this ending as an incon, since both would constantly be able to revive and have enough time to use either of their more effective options on the other (Sonic potentially BFR with the Chaos Nachos and Mario drawing his deck of Catch Cards or his Sleep Manip options)
Click to expand...

no counterpoints?
 
AStrangeverse said:
I don't think Hoghedge would be able to deal any lasting damage, even with his amps, due to badges like Mayo's probability ones reducing the chances of Cinos getting off any particular moves on him
Click to expand...
well, sonic resisted fate hax before, and that is just better probability manip, so arguably sonic can also resist this

AStrangeverse said:
, badges like Last Stand and Return Postage being able to halve the damage Jumpman would take should he be in critical condition and also returning half of the damage dealt back to Blue Man respectively. Hell, with items like the Boost Star or the Ruby Star, Malleo wouldn't even need to be near Sunky to damage him
Click to expand...
oh yeah, which is why we mostly voted in due to sonic's sealings and bfr, damage wise none of the 2 can do very much

AStrangeverse said:
there's also equipment like the Guard Shell series that can completely nullify any physical harm Maurice may land on Red Stache, and numerous healing items (some even passive) that'll constantly heal Mario in the process, making that task hella difficult
Click to expand...
see above

AStrangeverse said:
so once Mario's primary methods of offense do him barely any good, there shouldn't be any reason to doubt he'd resort to his extensive arsenal
Click to expand...
What is his arsenal could be really troubling for sonic?

AStrangeverse said:
I could honestly see this ending as an incon, since both would constantly be able to revive and have enough time to use either of their more effective options on the other (Sonic potentially BFR with the Chaos Nachos and Mario drawing his deck of Catch Cards or his Sleep Manip options)
Click to expand...
Could you explain mario's wincons a little better?
 
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