The Tyranid Population

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I believe the current number we have for the Tyranids' population is an extreme lowball. They're currently listed as in the quadrillions, because single invasions can consist of billions or trillions of Tyranids. However, there are some problems here. The first is that this invasion is only counting warrior organisms (things that can actually fight) and not ships, structures, etc., all of which are also actual Tyranids. Even then, this would just be a single tendril of a single Hive Fleet, of which there are many.

On top of this, in the preview for Devastation of Baal, we're told the Tyranids number in the septillions (a trillion trillion).

"And so it drew its plans, and it set in motion its trillion trillion bodies towards the consumption of the creatures in red metal, so that their secrets might be plundered, and reemployed in the sating of the Hive Mind's endless hunger. This was deliberate, considered, and done in malice."

This number doesn't come out of nowhere, either. Back in 4th edition, a quintillion Tyranids were said to be on the rim of the galaxy. Keep in mind that the entirety of the Tyranid race is so large, the entire thing hasn't gotten near the galaxy, yet. These quintillion were the earliest waves.

"Even by naming the Great Devourer, men betray their ignorance. Every thought and action, every spark of life in the Tyranid race is bound and interlinked into a single great organism stretching over light years of space and controlled by the immortal hive mind. A billion times a billion Tyranids stand at the rim of the galaxy, each no more than a single cell in the living body of the hive mind, the devourer of worlds."

On top of that, these numbers don't seem to be hyperbole, as the Tyranids together form an entity so large that it spans hundreds of light years of space.

"Every thought and action, every spark of life in the Tyranid race, is bound and interlinked into a single unfathomable consciousness, a great entity that stretches across hundreds of light years of space."

A single Hive Fleet, which you can see some of here, was able to spread troops across a front that spanned thousands of light years, overrunning numerous planets in multiple systems.

"Seen on a galactic scale, Hive Fleet Kraken was attacking across a front that covered thousands of light years, making a cohesive defence impossible to mount."


In short, I believe something along the lines of "likely septillions" is more accurate of a population number. It should also be noted that unless organisms are wiped out by something like a Necron Gauss Flayer destroying their atomic structure, Tyranids just recycle themselves, so the race only keeps growing, as well.

 

[Promestein]

I didn't have any good grounds on hand to guess how many Tyranids there were in total. Anyways, that sounds fine.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Every time you underestimate the Hive, a Tyranid cries, Prom.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Septillionids is an extreme highball hyperbole that comes from the same book that says there are 8^8^8 Bloodthirsters.

There'd be like 1 billion tyranids for every human in the galaxy.

I think quintillions if much better.

In addition, Devastation of Baal makes it clear that one Tyranid warrior form is actually made up of countless minor bodies attached together, with even blood cells counting as singular entities that form a larger whole.

 

[Promestein]

You think I don't know that, Azzy. The guilt is killing me.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also Tyranids don't literally cover hundreds of light years full. They have lines of ships that stretch for light years, but there's mostly empty space in this line. They're not tied to each other as a giant lump.

Else the gravity of the Tyranids would generate would be so big the Milky Way would be destroyed by now.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I'm pretty sure 8^8^8 Bloodthirsters is meant to be literal after checking up on some Khorne lore, actually.

Also, like I said before, this isn't accounting for everything that can be considered a Tyranid (which includes guns, ships, etc.). I'd estimate at least quintillions of warriors, but like I said, that's just everything that can fight.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also Tyranids don't literally cover hundreds of light years full. They have lines of ships that stretch for light years, but there's mostly empty space in this line. They're not tied to each other as a giant lump.
Else the gravity of the Tyranids would generate would be so big the Milky Way would be destroyed by now.

Yes, but the idea is that they'd be grouped at least a little bit tighter than a single hive fleet, which could occupy a front spanning thousands of light years, which cuts down on empty space.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

@Azathoth

No it isn't. We get an actual literal number of Bloodthirsters in fantasy and it is:

8 x 8 x 8 x 8 x 8 x 8 x 8 x 8

Or 16,777,216 Bloodthirsters. A staggering high number but much more sensible.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also, like I said before, this isn't accounting for everything that can be considered a Tyranid (which includes guns, ships, etc.). I'd estimate at least quintillions of warriors, but like I said, that's just everything that can fight.

As long as we clarify that all their tech, ships, weapons, and even ammonition count as individual Tyranid organisms, and that the warrior-forms are like at least Quintillions, seems fine.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

Yeah, that's the number I'm thinking of, I'm pretty sure.

And yes, that would definitely be clarified.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Also I am always iffy with statements that use lines like "A billion billion", "A trillion trillion" since they can be hyperbolic.

There can be but one Emperor, one god, one saviour, one deliverer. Without Him, a billion billion souls are nought but fodder for the ever-thirsting evils of the warp.
	~ Ecclesiarch Theodacus V, Indroit to the Verses of Dusk​

I doubt there are 1 Quintilion humans in the Milky Way.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am iffy with them in most cases, but for these, the subject at hand is a race so massive that they can occupy a good chunk of a galaxy. Unless most Tyranids are ships bigger than any we've seen, they kinda need these sorts of numbers for the implied scale.

There's also the fact that the Tyranids' numbers always seem to come from the omniscient narrator as opposed to someone just guessing how many Tyranids they think there are.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Also, unrelated to the main topic (but still related to Tyranids), should we rescale the bio-titans to likely High 6-A (like regular titans)? I think we forgot to do that.

 

[Promestein]

Yeah that also sounds fine to me.

Should Bio-ships scale to the higher end of Imperial warships?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

High 6-A titans? I can maybe accept that for the top-tiers but not Warhounds.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Prom

Easily, I would assume. If the higher-end Imperial Warships have High 6-A single torpedos and lasers, I can't imagine bio-ships would be orders of magnitude weaker.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

I am referring to things Warlord class and above, since those have actually damaged and destroyed large Imperial ships. Though since this category is covering lots of bio-titans, should it be "At least High 6-C, likely High 6-A" to split lower and higher ones?

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

lower-ones should be At least High 6-C, likely higher

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

However Eldar Grav-Tanks can apparently "Scar the surface of distant moons", so who the **** knows.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Just wanted to confirm a Warlord is the one who did this (for my previous statement), but yeah, a Warlord's plasma shot tears through a good chunk of an Ark Mechanicus (the Speranza, in particular).

"As destructive as the plasma bolt loosed by Lupa Capitalina had been in the training halls, it was nothing compared to the devastation yet to come. Confined in an oxygen-rich environment without the vastness of an atmosphere in which to dissipate its heat and ionising electrons, the plasma burned volcanic as it streaked the length of the Speranza. It burned its way through the starboard solar collector arrays, shattering millions of precision-finished mirrors and melting support struts machined to nanoscopic tolerances. The brittle detonations of countless looking-glasses sounded like a glassy sea crashing on a steel shore, and the reflected heat boiled the flesh from the bones of the floating servitors whose lives were spent in keeping the mirrors free of imperfections.

Another bulkhead was sliced through with horrifying ease, the superstructure around the chamber sagging as a central tension bar snapped like overstretched elastic. In the vaulted chambers behind the solar collectors, vast capacitors, long since beyond the reach of any in the Adeptus Mechanicus to reproduce, were reduced to thousands of tonnes of scrap metal as the plasma bolt bored through machines dreamed into existence in a past age. Irreplaceable technology melted to molten slag and a thunderclap of electrical discharge exploded from the mortally wounded machinery as it screamed in its death-throes. Every metal structure within five hundred metres became lethally charged with thousands of volts, and hundreds of ship-serfs died as they were electrocuted in leaping arcs of red lightning."

"'Where is the plasma fire now?' demanded Kotov. 'How far has it burned?'

'It is in the aft decks, burning through the transport holds,' answered Blaylock. 'Integrity fields have failed, and the loss of atmosphere has helped bleed off 102K of plasmic energy, though the tesla strength of the bolt remains unaffected. Thirty-two per cent of our drop-ship fleet has been blown into the warp, together with forty-five per cent of the Guard's armoured vehicles.'

Kryptaestrex grunted, his multiple arms and wide body jerking with the force of his displeasure.

'The Cadians aren't going to like that,' he said.

'If we cannot dampen this fire, then their dislikes will be the least of our concerns,' said Kotov. 'When this is over, I will build them replacements in the prow manufactories. Now where are my containment doors?'

'Blast containment shields are raising between sections Z-3 Tertius Lambda and X-4 Rho,' said Blaylock, reading the damage-control inloads from noospheric veils of light. 'There is an eighty-three point seven per cent chance they will not halt the blast and it will breach the main plasma combustion chamber.'"

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There's a book about Imperator Titans being released. Maybe that will shed light into how strong they are supposed to be cause they are super vague due to how rare they are.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

All we know is Imperators are >>>entire groups of Warhounds, Reavers, and Warlords.

But yeah, do you think "Likely High 6-A" is alright for Warlords and above, while lesser ones have "At least High 6-C, likely higher"?


Also, on the topic of the Tyranid population numbers, how does this sound?

"Likely at least Quintillions of warrior organisms and ships (during the early stages of the Tyranid invasion, "a billion times a billion" Tyranids were stated to stand at the rim of the galaxy, despite the fact many Hive Fleets have yet to even arrive). Far higher when accounting for lesser weapon organisms and biomorphs. Can increase population numbers by consuming biomass."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Seems fine, I think.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Alright. Should we wait for a bit more input, or is anyone other than us really going to care about the population of Tyranids?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Bump.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

What is the number we agreed on?

Also I should point out that the septillion Tyranids number is a hyperbole, as it is talking about the number of Tyranids attacking Baal, which in actuality range from 100s of Billions (According to Codex Blood angels) to Trillions (According to White Dwarf).

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Matt

This.

"Likely at least Quintillions of warrior organisms and ships (during the early stages of the Tyranid invasion, "a billion times a billion" Tyranids were stated to stand at the rim of the galaxy, despite the fact many Hive Fleets have yet to even arrive). Far higher when accounting for lesser weapon organisms and biomorphs. Can increase population numbers by consuming biomass."

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Seems fine.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Alright. I'll add that and the minor tier change for Bio-Titans, then.