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Thunder McQueen matches

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Why are yall pretending like he cant harm them? Of course he can, his stand bypasses durability. If his enemy can't put him down either, then the incon is still valid
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Why are yall pretending like he cant harm them? Of course he can, his stand bypasses durability. If his enemy can't put him down either, then the incon is still valid
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Because he can't harm them without killing himself. He physically can't harm them. At all. Only the stand can. And the stand requires him to take the same damage. He literally would have to kill him self to kill them. Aka. Not a valid win condition, or a win condition at all.
 
Yes, but the vast majority of the enemies cannot put him down without killing themselves in the process. His stand harming them is him harming them, even if the process still hurts him. They are in the same boat here
 
And thus runs into the issue that they simply don't have win conditions at all. There is 0 chance. Which is not an inconclusive. It's a stomp. Not to mention the tier difference. Sans got his fights yeeted for the same reason of tier difference alone. This as well fits under it
 
Tier difference in and of itself is not reason for a stomp. If it is a match like him against Saitama where he cannot harm Saitama without Highway to hell, but Saitama cannot harm him in a way that the damage will not transfer, then it isn't a stomp. If neither competitor has win conditions, that's an inconclusive, not a stomp
 
It is if the person has 0 way to actually activately kill them without both of them ending up dead. McQueens only way to hurt and kill them is to kill him self. Which is not a win, and not valid for a fight at all.
 
No, if neither side has a way to win then that is a valid match. It's literally a text book definition of an inconclusive match. It's no different from a match between 2 characters with passive hax, where the match is decided before it even began.
 
If you claim it's textbook, show where it actually says that on the wiki, because currently, those don't follow under the wikis rules of stomp and spite threads.
 
Textbook meaning open and closed, not as in it is written down. Explain to me how a match where neither person can win is a stomp, since the definition of a stomp requires that the Match be one sided, and since it is equally likely for each person to win, it cannot be one sided. In addition, explain to me how it can be spite, when neither character is losing or even capable of losing the match
 
Because it's a spite fight. 99 percent of McQueens fights are absolute pure spite. Just cause "haha, he can tie with so and so". Nobody can win, it's purely for spite, and it's so obvious, the OP even knows it. At least fights like against that doctor guy, he could win by putting McQueen to sleep. And they both were physically comparable. Goku and Superman is spite
 
Gonna vote for the removal of said matches too. I agree with OP. There are legitimately fair and fun matches for TMQ, but most of the time yeah they're not great
 
Eh, while im against doing matches with the intention of doing it for a very specific intention of an outcome. tbf, it's a neutral outcome and honestlym, that's all he's ever gonna get usually.
 
Buttersamuri said:
Because it's a spite fight. 99 percent of McQueens fights are absolute pure spite. Just cause "haha, he can tie with so and so". Nobody can win, it's purely for spite, and it's so obvious, the OP even knows it. At least fights like against that doctor guy, he could win by putting McQueen to sleep. And they both were physically comparable. Goku and Superman is spite
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The spite page makes it clear that it is a spite thread if one side loses and is about humiliation. No one is trying to "humiliate" McQueen, nor his enemy, and no one is losing these matches. Therefore, they cannot be spite threads. If the match is made in good faith, as most of these are, then they aren't spite threads, and are completely fine. Walking into a thread with an outcome in mind is not spite
 
They aren't made in good faith. Their made because everyone knows that McQueen is the go to to get an inconclusive. They are spite. One doesn't have to win for it not to be spite. This is clearly just buffing up his inconclusives by making him fight the sane exact fight over and over with no chance of winning or losing
 
Spite matches have to be with the intention of a loss, as the page explicitly says. A match being made with an inconclusive in mind is 100% ok, and that's in good faith since it isn't made for the detriment of either character. Care to explain what the issue is with making matches that are not bad for either side? No one loses anything by having the matches br added to the profiles.

682 is another example of a character with many matches being made with the intention of Inconclusive, and no one has issue with that
 
Eh, they can harm each other, I think the issue with McQueen is that, they just wont or doing so is the catalyst to inconclusive.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Spite matches have to be with the intention of a loss, as the page explicitly says. A match being made with an inconclusive in mind is 100% ok, and that's in good faith since it isn't made for the detriment of either character. Care to explain what the issue is with making matches that are not bad for either side? No one loses anything by having the matches br added to the profiles.
682 is another example of a character with many matches being made with the intention of Inconclusive, and no one has issue with that
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SCP 682 and X character have ways to harm each other though
 
I'm Blue daba dee daba die said:
I heard from discussion mods that matches which no one can harm another is a mismatch and I see matches closed for that reaso
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It's a mismatch only if one side has win conditions and the other doesn't. AP difference in and of itself means nothing, as can be seen from most smurf fights
 
To summarize my vote, I agree with the removal of the losses, and the inconclusive matches where only McQueen's enemy has win conditions while he does not. However, I think I have successfully proven in the discussion above that matches where neither of the participants can win are fine to remain on the profile.
 
You haven't exactly proven that no. They still fall under stomp/spite matches on our terms and should be removed. You are going based of what you think and not what are the rules here. Their meme haha spite fights. Plenty of then have been removed for the and reasons. Such as Broly, and they all should fall under the same ruling and should all be removed.
 
Honestly if someone's gonna rack up an incon just because "Oneshot TMQ, oh no they're dead too" that itself makes itself a horrible match. It's predictable. Thus there's no need to record that in the profile. That's like saying a Tier 2 beats Tier 8. It's redundant and unnecessarily blots out the page

It's what we expect. What should be listed as ties are actual matches where it could go as a win for either side, and not just a tie in the first place.
 
Buttersamuri said:
You haven't exactly proven that no. They still fall under stomp/spite matches on our terms and should be removed. You are going based of what you think and not what are the rules here. Their meme haha spite fights. Plenty of then have been removed for the and reasons. Such as Broly, and they all should fall under the same ruling and should all be removed.
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It can only be spite if one side loses, as is blatantly spelled out on the spite page, and it also cannot be a spite since the Matches are made in good faith. Stomps are also only stomps when one side loses. No one is losing these matches, therefore it cannot be spite and cannot be a stomp. I am going off of "what I think" in that I am going on exactly what the stomp and spite pages say. You are also just going on "what you think" but unlike me, your view does not match up with the pages.
 
Ciruno Fortes said:
Honestly if someone's gonna rack up an incon just because "Oneshot TMQ, oh no they're dead too" that itself makes itself a horrible match. It's predictable. Thus there's no need to record that in the profile. That's like saying a Tier 2 beats Tier 8. It's redundant and unnecessarily blots out the page
It's what we expect. What should be listed as ties are actual matches where it could go as a win for either side, and not just a tie in the first place.
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If you decide that it is a horrible match, that is fine, you are entitled to your opinion, but you can't get them removed from the profiles based on that subjective claim unless you can find a rule it violates.

Then go to half of the fights between users of type 8 and 9 immortality, and get them removed first. It is standard policy that these kinds of matches are acceptable.
 
I mean, a redundant match is a redundant. Unless anything different about the character fighting Thunder is that really changes the situation, it's just the same battle that's gonna be an add on tie. Nothing different.

I'm not against that all. In fact I'm fully supporting that. But I don't spend as much time here as I used to so... Someone else's gotta start doing that and I'll be there in the back cheering on.
 
Considering nearly all of Thunder's matches are more joke threads than serious debate, I agree with most if not all of the OP's points.

I'd prefer seeing all the battles being axed, but that's just my opinion.
 
Matches can be funny without being purely joke threads.

I'll say this: if the general rule on the wiki changes towards inconclusive matches where neither has win conditions, then I shall agree to the battles being axed, but otherwise, it's a double standard
 
I don't believe it actually does say that. It's not written down like that. If that's just you jumping to that conclusion, that's not a double standard. The page just doesn't cover that situation, that means it should be updated to cover such a situation. Currently though. McQueens fights were jokes, obvious, and redundant. And really they should be nuked
 
Dargoo Faust said:
Considering nearly all of Thunder's matches are more joke threads than serious debate, I agree with most if not all of the OP's points.
I'd prefer seeing all the battles being axed, but that's just my opinion.
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So the matches I listed are to be fine with being removed????

Also, since everyone at least agreed on the listed losses to be removed, can I least remove those before we talk about the incons???
 
Buttersamuri said:
I don't believe it actually does say that. It's not written down like that. If that's just you jumping to that conclusion, that's not a double standard. The page just doesn't cover that situation, that means it should be updated to cover such a situation. Currently though. McQueens fights were jokes, obvious, and redundant. And really they should be nuked
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It's the working rule, even if it isn't written down. If we are truly going to start removing matches with no win conditions, then that should be done in all cases. Again, matches being funny or being made as "memes" doesn't invalidate then inherently, unless the match would usually violate rules which are not applied to joke battles. There are plenty of spam characters who's matches could be called memes but they still fly. Redundancy is another issue, but I can think of multiple characters who have multiple matches where no one can put the other down, yet they are not considered invalid under the duplicate rule. Like it or not, the redundancy rules is not enforced outside of matches against multiple forms of the same character (like if 2 characters had the same ability in different tiers and were put against eachother in each tier) or if they are incredibly similar characters from the same verse. An outcome being obvious does not make it invalid either, at least not on its own
 
It's not a double standard, and it isn't even something I or others agree to. You may believe it like it's one. But that doesn't make it one. I do believe any fight that fits the some context should be removed.
 
So you are just going "no it isn't" then? Explain to me how arbitrarily deciding that one character's matches with no win conditions for either side should be removed when another persons matches can remain in those same conditions. It's cool if you think that anyone who fits those conditions should, but this needs to be something the wiki as a whole officially decides to agree with
 
I'm going off of the fact your trying to use a rule that was never written down, and hasn't been agreed upon as a reason to keep these matches up. This is an important enough detail it should be written down. I simply do not agree that if they both lack win conditions from the start, it shouldn't be added. Especially for McQueen, WHOS fights were most all utter jokes
 
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