Toaru Discussion thread New Fourms #1

[XDragnoir]

Executioner possibly has a similar fate cutting thing as Vidhatri, but I don't think it needs a separate P&A. Maybe your scan of Alice having all of the transcendents' abilities can support this.

Whether it's through a curse or whatnot, it negates durability of physical beings without needing to land a hit on the opponent.

The problem with that is that:

1 - none of the quotes actually conclude how it works, it just make it clear that there isn't a physical attack happening and gives 3 possibilities for why without confirming either, it doesn't even confirm that it "negates/ignores durability", all it says is that it's not the blade itself which damages the target (no different from how Agnese also doesn't need direct contact to damage her opponents but her attacks are still "physical damage").

2 - whatever it does, it's not being done by Alice herself, that's why I am saying it should be split to begin with.

For Alice's AP/range justifications, there's:

1. Can destroy the universe.
2. World would be destroyed
3. Comparison to Othinus
4. This quote.

I suggested these to apply to Live Adventures in Wonderland instead of her physicals, what do you think about it?

 

[Aseka]

From what I can remember, Child Alice didn't have any 5B feats and as you pointed out she gets her Miracles when in Adult Form (at least I don't remember any explicit or even implicit mention to her Miracles in her Child Form).

I remember Alice suddenly disappear from Consulate, is that have anything to do with her "Walking"?

 

[Accel0305]

It doesn't need to be a different key, given it is basically a transformation/true form she doesn't need any specific condition to access.

Could be something like "at least 9B in Child Form, 5B in Adult form" (just as an example)

From what I can remember, Child Alice didn't have any 5B feats and as you pointed out she gets her Miracles when in Adult Form (at least I don't remember any explicit or even implicit mention to her Miracles in her Child Form).

Seeing as there is a whole difference of physical AP and abilities (miracles), shouldn't we just make a separate key? i.e.

Child Alice | Inner Alice (or Adult Alice)

This is what I currently have for her AP/Tier in the CRT, without separate keys:

At least 9B Physically as Child Alice, 5B Physically as Inner Alice, far higher with Grabbing, At least High 1-C, likely far higher with Live Adventures in Wonderland.

Idk, seems like it could come across a bit messy and confusing to others.

 

[Accel0305]

I remember Alice suddenly disappear from Consulate, is that have anything to do with her "Walking"?

Could be, but it was never specified.

 

[Accel0305]

only thing I think should be more extensively discussed there is her resistance to internal damage which I am suggesting to be expanded.

This is one quote from the LN regarding that. It straight up states that she's immune to all types of internal damage:

Spoiler: Toaru Majutsu no Index GT7, Chapter 4, Part 7

Also, her body was immune to bacteria, bugs, curses, and all other forms of internal damage, both scientific and magical. As for external damage, she would always remain unscathed thanks to the hedgehogs and flamingo protecting her. Moreover, this didn’t come from a fear of shedding blood. She protected herself that way because if anything obstructed her actions, she might get angry and kill someone.

Should be enough for resistance, I think.

 

[XDragnoir]

Seeing as there is a whole difference of physical AP and abilities (miracles), shouldn't we just make a separate key? i.e.

Nah, separate keys are for straight up different versions of a character, such as different story arcs, outside power ups or any kind of change they can't undo mid-battle (that's why Accel's wings aren't separate keys but L6S is, for example)

 

[Accel0305]

Nah, separate keys are for straight up different versions of a character, such as different story arcs, outside power ups or any kind of change they can't undo mid-battle (that's why Accel's wings aren't separate keys but L6S is, for example)

Alright. Makes sense, I suppose.

Current AP rating (in the CRT) should be fine then.

 

[XDragnoir]

This is one quote from the LN regarding that. It straight up states that she's immune to all types of internal damage:

Yeah, that's the quote I was talking about.

Btw, how many different forms of internal damage we have in Toaru?

From the top of my head there is Accel's blood and bioelectric reversal, Coronzon's rebounding spell (or whatever it was), the Kihara shockwave technique and Anna's life force disruption, can't recall any others.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Yeah, that's the quote I was talking about.

Btw, how many different forms of internal damage we have in Toaru?

From the top of my head there is Accel's blood and bioelectric reversal, Coronzon's rebounding spell (or whatever it was), the Kihara shockwave technique and Anna's life force disruption, can't recall any others.

So Alice gets resistance to Biological Manip (via Accel) and Dura Neg (via Kihara technique) in VBW terms, if I am correct. Not sure what Coronzon and Anna's stuff would get other than Dura Neg again.

Oh yeah. The Railgun collab with the gacha game Blue Archive is officially on in its EN servers... Didn't get Misaka or Misaki on my rolls even with the savings I got as a F2P, tho, so I'mma spend my time sulking. Probs spent all of my luck in getting a 6-star in Arknights, imao.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

So Alice gets resistance to Biological Manip (via Accel) and Dura Neg (via Kihara technique) in VBW terms, if I am correct. Not sure what Coronzon and Anna's stuff would get other than Dura Neg again.

Oh yeah. The Railgun collab with the gacha game Blue Archive is officially on in its EN servers... Didn't get Misaka or Misaki on my rolls even with the savings I got as a F2P, tho, so I'mma spend my time sulking. Probs spent all of my luck in getting a 6-star in Arknights, imao.

You a Doktah?
Anyways, does mind control count as internal damage? Or at least attacks that's harmful to one's mind and is related to mind control, though that might count into biological manip too.

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

You a Doktah?
Anyways, does mind control count as internal damage? Or at least attacks that's harmful to one's mind.

Ye.

IIRC, Alice's profile already has a mind control resistance via her resisting Misaki's Mental Out through a statement. Although, the statement Accel and Noir are talking about might also allow Alice's mind resistance to expand to other forms of mind manip that aren't biological-based (like Mental Out) like Coronzon's snap and you immediately fall unconscious technique or possibly whatever she did with Index.

Oh. And the grimores' madness manip comes to mind as well as a possible resistance for Alice.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

Ye.

IIRC, Alice's profile already has a mind control resistance via her resisting Misaki's Mental Out through a statement. Although, the statement Accel and Noir are talking about might also allow Alice's mind resistance to expand to other forms of mind manip that aren't biological-based (like Mental Out) like Coronzon's snap and you immediately fall unconscious technique or possibly whatever she did with Index.

Oh. And the grimores' madness manip comes to mind as well as a possible resistance for Alice.

So does soul manip attacks count as an internal damage too? Or is that too far fetched?

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So does soul manip attacks count as an internal damage too? Or is that too far fetched?

It does to me, but you might have to ask the others to get a more solid opinion. If they all agree then there isn't an issue with giving Alice resistance to soul manip.

 

[Aseka]

From the top of my head there is Accel's blood and bioelectric reversal, Coronzon's rebounding spell (or whatever it was), the Kihara shockwave technique and Anna's life force disruption, can't recall any others

Shirai's teleport, also I don't know if Kakine can create Dark Matter inside the body or not

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

Shirai's teleport, also I don't know if Kakine can create Dark Matter inside the body or not

Well, he could turn a person into sand. So transmutation resistance?

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

"All form of internal damage, both scientific and magical" could varies to literally all attacks that exists in the verse that can target her internally and deal some kind of thing she consider "damage" (ofc except for attacks that she clearly scales below/can't resist).

immune to teleportation attacks, any kind of poison and bacteria as mentioned in the scan, maybe soul manip res, mind manip res, internal transmutation res, internal vector transformation res, internal reality warping res, internal spatial manipulation res, basically internal "insert name" res.

Basically, nothing can target her inside directly, right? Like if external damage can still deal damage to her inside if deep enough, then it's more like that those internal attacks either can't target her inside directly/ can't hit her inside, or somehow her inside is completely invincible until her external shell is damaged.

 

[XDragnoir]

basically internal "insert name" res.

As long as we've had an example of it before the statement was written, pretty much.

 

[Acertainbcplayer]

As long as we've had an example of it before the statement was written, pretty much.

If he said scientific then I guess we could at least go to the spinoffs and see if there are more esper ability like that.

 

[Churronzon]

11. A form of Biological Manipulation combined with Weapon Creation?: Alice can turn anything into a weapon, be it an object or a living being, by simply grabbing it:

Whatever it is, it's also mind manip.
Grabbing something strips them of their will. Trismegistus didn't perform any actions until she released him.

The act of denying an object its own will and applying her own will to it by unilaterally wielding it for its offensive or defensive functionality.

I suggested these to apply to Live Adventures in Wonderland instead of her physicals, what do you think about it?

Makes sense to me.

---

On the topic of Alice's internal protections, there's Mathers' and St. Germain's diseases.

---

How do people feel about giving "beast/inner Alice" a possible resistance to reality warping? Wanna know if I'm in the extreme minority lmao.

Most likely, no one could have escaped that lance when attacked head on. No matter what
form of defense or evasion they attempted, they would have had no hope of surviving.
That attack had been given the parameter of “no human can oppose it”. Unless one left
the territory of man, one would be smashed to pieces. Not even Fiamma of the Right or
Ollerus could have done anything when faced with it.

“No more holding back. Risk 4: Releasing the numberless seal – leaving human territory.
Rapidly renewing myself using a trio of great beings.”

We know the transcendents have a card they can play that would let them kill Othinus in the Black World in that quote people have debated numerous times already. Even if we don't want to give all the transcendents a possible resistance with Risk 4, I don't see it as a huge leap to give it to Alice's version of Risk 4.

This one revealed that the Transcendents of the Bridge Builders Cabal are
all magicians strong enough to rival the entire magic side and their goal is to
make the world a better place. But if you compare them to the Magic Gods
who are satisfied creating an ideal world on their own, you can see how they
have basically min-maxed their diffusion and destruction skills. The
irritating thing for them is that they can destroy everything with ease, but
they can’t remake it all afterwards. They’re so reluctant to play their one
and only card that they were even caught in Othinus’s destruction of the
world and killed. (Because if the Transcendents had killed Othinus in that
dark space, they couldn’t have remade the world like she did.) With that in
mind, can you see why they’re so terrified of Alice whose innocence makes
her impossible to predict? She has the destruction button right in front of her,
after all.

 

[StrangerALover]

Whatever it is, it's also mind manip.
Grabbing something strips them of their will. Trismegistus didn't perform any actions until she released him.


Makes sense to me.

---

On the topic of Alice's internal protections, there's Mathers' and St. Germain's diseases.

---

How do people feel about giving "beast/inner Alice" a possible resistance to reality warping? Wanna know if I'm in the extreme minority lmao.


We know the transcendents have a card they can play that would let them kill Othinus in the Black World in that quote people have debated numerous times already. Even if we don't want to give all the transcendents a possible resistance with Risk 4, I don't see it as a huge leap to give it to Alice's version of Risk 4.

Yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, many people do not accept this.

 

[Churronzon]