• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Toei Tokusatsu Cosmology Upgrade

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sir_Ovens

Resident Kitchen Appliance
VS Battles
Administrator
16,019
9,258
Introduction
Title is a bit misleading as we currently only have Kamen Rider profiles. But eventually we intend to have all Toei Tokusatsu properties on the wiki so this revision is important. Most of what I will be presenting can be found on this blog. Shoutout to the Toei Tokusatsu Discord members for helping me in the way of scans and data gathering.

Canon
I'll give a brief introduction on the history of Toei Tokusatsu as everything can be found in detail on the blog. Toei Tokusatsu refers to any tokusatsu series produced by the company Toei and has canonically crossed over. Some of these serials include Kamen Rider, Super Sentai, and Metal Hero. Now, unlike most western productions, Toei Tokusatsu shows tend to not have a singular narrative throughout its timeline. Each season has unique themes, power sources, lore, etc. As such, their scaling is usually self contained. However, there are canon crossovers that happen within movies, specials, and/or extra content. We tend to consider one of these crossovers as canon if later episodes in a season call back to the special or if producers give WoG.

To add to the above, the movie Over Quartzer presented the idea that the character Oma Zi-O, who is sort of a verse composite character, could summon characters from specials and material that we would consider non-canon. In this sense, we can assume that "non-canon" material would in fact just be alternate universes within the Toei Tokusatsu multiverse. As such, all Toei Tokusatsu material can be considered for cosmological scaling as long as it doesn't heavily contradict consistent scaling.

Cosmology
The blog covers a bulk of this part so I'll try to condense this.

In the show Donbrothers, there is a location known as Ideon, that has been stated by WoG to be a platonic higher dimension. Wacky 1-A jokes aside, it is very literally a higher dimension and multiple scans (that are presented within the blog) point to this. Therefore Ideon should be 5D (Low 1-C).

In the Gaim novel, Kamen Rider Saver ascended creation and became transcendent over it. Realistically, this would put him above Ideon, and make him 6D (Low 1-C).

In the show Akibaranger, there exists a world where people see Super Sentai as fiction. The main characters of the show can enter this fiction via mental illness and interact with actual Sentai characters. This puts them an entire reality fiction difference from the entirety of the Super Sentai franchise, and by extension, the Kamen Rider franchise as well. This would make them 7D (1-C).

Now Akibaranger also introduces a character known as Hatte Saburo who exists as a reality-fiction difference from the main characters. As such his existence would be 8D (1-C)

There are other properties that add to characters being on the dimensional scale but they more or less fit somewhere in the above mentioned tiers.

Conundrum
Now what's a CRT without a little controversy?

In the movie Showa vs Heisei, a child was stated to have "7th dimensional power". Taken at face value, this would insinuate that the base level multiverse would have at least 7 dimensions. This bumps up Saver's feat to 8D instead of 6D. The resulting chain reaction would put Hatte Saburo at 10D. Now the issue here is whether or not this statement should be used or discarded for scaling. An idea has been proposed for a possibly tier, so "Low 1-C, possibly 1-C" for Saver, as an example.

I will leave this up for debate. Also note that the blog is adjusted to account for the 7D statement and I will remove it should the consensus dictate as such.

Conclusion
To summarize:

Ideon: 5D (Low 1-C)
Shuu's 7th Dimensional Power: 7D (1-C)*
Saver: 6D/8D* (Low 1-C/1-C*)
Akibaranger Real World: 7D/9D* (1-C/1-C*)
Hatte Saburo: 8D/10D* (1-C/High 1-C*)

Now I've left out Super Hero Senki and Heisei Generations FOREVER, but their tiers are explained in the blog and should match Akibaranger Real World and Hatte Saburo respectively.​
 
From what I've read in Discord, I'm inclined to agree with 7D for base multiverse, but I'll wait for the full argument.
 
Following, I am also inclined to agreed with the discord arguments but will refrain until I can read everything when I’m off work.
 
I would just like to give my stance on the 7D thing:

I'm perfectly fine with removing it at the moment due to reasons @ImmortalDread brought up on the Tokusatsu Discord. However, @Jamesthetaker and @Omazio2019 have been building an argument in favor of letting it remain, so I'm also fine with the "possibly" route.
I will wait for them to send the whole counter arguments as I did not receive yet.
 
How is it 8D without 7D part?
It's written on the OP.

Cosmology
The blog covers a bulk of this part so I'll try to condense this.

In the show Donbrothers, there is a location known as Ideon, that has been stated by WoG to be a platonic higher dimension. Wacky 1-A jokes aside, it is very literally a higher dimension and multiple scans (that are presented within the blog) point to this. Therefore Ideon should be 5D (Low 1-C).

In the Gaim novel, Kamen Rider Saver ascended creation and became transcendent over it. Realistically, this would put him above Ideon, and make him 6D (Low 1-C).

In the show Akibaranger, there exists a world where people see Super Sentai as fiction. The main characters of the show can enter this fiction via mental illness and interact with actual Sentai characters. This puts them an entire reality fiction difference from the entirety of the Super Sentai franchise, and by extension, the Kamen Rider franchise as well. This would make them 7D (1-C).

Now Akibaranger also introduces a character known as Hatte Saburo who exists as a reality-fiction difference from the main characters. As such his existence would be 8D (1-C)
 
How is it 8D without 7D part?
It's in the blog that SirOven linked on the OP (Cosmology section).
but if I got it right from reading the blog. Even after removing the random 7D statement. The Toei cosmology still have several other Higher Dimension.

brain layer (4D) << Ideon (5D) << Saver transcendence over all creation (6D) << the pseudo real world of Akibaranger (7D) << the real world where author-like entities like Hatte Saburo and Ishinomori exists (8D).
 
Honestly I think Saver’s feat with the context of Shu is clear enough to just be labeled as solid 8D. So regarding this area, I’m in favour of his tier being 1-C

Anyways, this all looks very good and seeing as how I’ve followed your creation of this blog for a long time, I agree
 
I will wait for them to send the whole counter arguments as I did not receive yet.
Here's your order. Credit to @Omazio2019 for helping me gather the scans.

Since the last time, we have been building arguments about the worlds of the dead since it also concerns Shuu’s power.

Now Badan's plan is to reverse the world of the dead and living, but we don’t have much information on that world as of now. So, this time I will try to explain the nature of the world of the dead.

There are two depictions of the world of the dead in two media: the novel Kamen Rider W Playback and Kamen Rider Gaim novel, and the game Kamen Rider: Battride War II. We’ll begin by going through each of them.

To provide a little context, the protagonist, Philip, somehow got sent to the world of the disembodied. He met up with several people: his sister, his boss, and Shotaro Ishinomori, all of whom are already dead.



This isn't Kazetown, is it? We are in the Windward City Tower. If this place is not Kazeto, then where the hell is this place ......? Where the hell is this world?
Don't be surprised, Shotaro. This is the world of the disembodied. So is Skull. Narumi Shokichi is dead too. And in fact, I am one of them, and your sister has come for you.
What? Phillip, you're dead too? That's impossible. ........ What? Your sister came for you? No way, that's .........
I mean, your body is already dead. That's what I've been searching for about you. Shotaro Ishinomori is ..... He died on January 2, 1998.
Wow, I'm dead. ...... Because I'm here like this ......."

In the Kamen Rider W manga, Philip also stated that there is no information about the afterlife, despite using the Gaia Library, which contains every information and concept from the Earth to the universe.




Crystal Server
By installing Extreme Memory, Cyclone Joker's latent ability awakens and appears in the center.
It is an infinite data server that is directly connected to the Earth itself, and can instantly retrieve the necessary data from the Earth's memory and download it to this central part.
This allows you to detect the enemy's movements in advance and adopt a very advantageous fighting style that is one step ahead.


(... In fact, there's no doubt he was nearly dead.
I believe that when Accel was fatally wounded, Ryu Terui unknowingly applied an electric shock to himself from his engine blades, which led to his revival. ......
You're all scientific and realistic, aren't you?
You can't deny hell, though.
The Gaia Library are only the memory of this planet.
There is no information about the afterlife other than creation concepts.)

The world of the dead is a world where people who have no bodies live; in other words, it is a world of spirits. It is a place beyond conventional knowledge, as the knowledge from the Gaia Library can’t reach it. This alone won’t grant anything meaningful, so we’ll move on to another source, which is the Kamen Rider Gaim novel.


You might have seen this on Sir Oven's blog before; it is the part about Kamen Rider Saver. Simply put, after dying in an experiment, Saver lost his physical body, but his very being ascended to a higher plan.

Now, I’m not trying to say that every soul has a higher-dimensional nature; Saver is somewhat exceptional. However, this gives us an insight into where the souls have gone. Both Saver and the people Philip met are those who lost their bodies and came to another world after death. This is supported by Saver, who is also frequently referred to as a ghost in the novel.

https://digi-lab.blog/kamen-rider-gaim-novel-chapter-4/

“So he really is a ghost…?” muttered Zack.
Mitsuzane shook his head in response.
“No, he’s definitely got some kind of substantial presence. We fought him directly, remember?”
“But every time we finish him off, he keeps coming back to life.”

“But his presence is quite weak. Normally, he shouldn’t be able to interfere with the physical world. That’s right, Kugai Kudou is truly like a ghost. The only thing that lets him have any kind of physical presence is his Driver.”

“Kugai Kudou is neither a god nor a savior — he’s a meaningless, empty ghost.”

Thus, the man had not overcome life or death after all — he was simply just dead.
A meaningless shadow that merely happened to be projected onto the world — a ghost

This means that Saver’s nature is similar to that of a ghost, and he would pass through the world of the disembodied upon his death. That world would have been the higher plane he's talked about. This implies that the world of the dead could be a higher plane.

Alright, so please bear with me for the next one because it may take longer for us to get through.

Plot summary for the game: A villain called Cinema has summoned every Riders to make a movie for the childrens to enjoy.



0:00
Gaim: ここは... 俺たちのいた映画館? (This is... Isn’t this the movie theater we were in from the beginning?)

Gaim: やっぱりさっきのは夢だったのか? (Was that a dream after all?)

Ryugen: 3人そろって、同じ夢ですか? (All three of us have a same dream together?)

Baron: お前たちと同じ夢を見るなど、 あまりいい気分ではないな。 (Cut the crap, i don't like the idea of having the same dream with you guys.)

Gaim: 戒斗、そりゃないだろ。 (Kaito, that’s not true.)

Suddenly theater’s alarm rang

Gaim: ん? (Eh?)

Theater announcer: 『鎧武とゆかいな仲間たち•大江戸大騒動!』の上映は終了しました。(The screening of『Gaim and Pleasant Friends • Great Edo Riot! 』has ended.)

Baron: ゆ、ゆかいな仲間だと...? (Ple, pleasant friends?)

??? (Man voice): どうだ、レイト? 今の映画は面白かっただろう? (What do you think, Reito? That movie was fun, wasn't it?)

Reito: 「ヒーローが負けたまま終わる映画なんか、 つまんないよ...。」 (「A movie that ends with the hero losing is boring... 。」)

Reito: 「ねえ、レイナ?」 (「Right, Reina? 」)

Reina: 「わからないけど、そういうものなのね...。」 (「I don’t know, but that's the way it is...。」)

The man with the silk hat (???): 「こいつらが負けたのが原因だ。 見掛け倒しで使えない連中だ...。」 (「The reason why they were lost. Because they're shoddy and useless...。」)

Gaim: 「何だ、ありゃ...!?」 (「What is that…!?」)

Gaim: 「こども二人に、 傍にいるやつは誰だ? っていうか何?」 (「The two kids standing beside you, who are they? Or rather, what are they? 」)

Ryugen: 「ちょっと待って...! 今『負けた』って言ったよね?」 (「Wait a minute...! Did you just say『lost』? 」)

Ryugen: 「さっき僕達が戦っていたのを見てたってこと? まさか、君達が!」 (「You mean you saw us fighting earlier? No way, that was you guys! 」)

The man with the silk hat (???): 「御託はいい。 次はこの映画だ。」 (「Forget the oxymoron. Next we’ll enjoy this film」)

1:25

Gaim: 「仮面ライダー...ダブリュー?」 (Kamen Rider...W?)

Baron: 「『次は』だと? また俺たちに何かさせる気か?」 (「What do you mean by『next』? Are you gonna make us do something else? 」)

The man with the silk hat (???): 「この映画館でオレに逆らえると思うな。」 (「Don't think you can stand against me in this cinema. 」)

Baron: 「何...!?」 (「What the...!? 」)

Baron was forcely dropped his weapon

Ryugen: 「いったい君は?」 (Who are you exactly?)

Cinema: 「オレの名はシネマ。 それ以外の何者でもない。」 (「My name is Cinema. That’s all you need to know」)

Cinema: 「お前たちは映画を作るんだ。 こどもたちが喜ぶような映画をな。」 (「You guys are going to make great movies. Movies that kids will enjoy. 」)

Gaim: 「映画って、 さっきみたいに変なところに行って、 戦えってことか?」 (「Making movie, does that mean we have to go to some weird place again and fight like we just did? 」)

Baron: 「馬鹿馬鹿しい。 そんなものに付き合う気はない!」 (「This is bullshit. I'm not going along with that! 」)

Baron: 「これは...いったいどうなっている?」 (Where the hell is place?)

Reito: 「ここからは出られないよ。 そういう場所なんだから。」 (「You can't leave. That's is how this place works.」)

Reina: 「そういう場所なの。」 (「That’s is how it always works. 」)

Gaim: 「そりゃ困った。 どうやったら出してもらえるんだ?」 (「Well, we’re in trouble. How can we manage to get out? 」)

Cinema: 「言ったはずだ。」 (I’ve told you.)

Cinema: 「こどもたちが喜ぶ映画が完成するまでは、 一生、このままだ。」 (「Until the movie that these kids are happy with is completed, this is how it will be for the rest of your life.」)

Cinema: 「チケットは切られたようだな。上映開始だ!」 (「Tickets have been sold. Let's get this show on the road! 」)

The alarm of theater rang again

2:50
運命のガイアメモリ?

シネマのチケットによって見知らぬ場所に飛ばされた鎧武達は 『仮面ライダー』 を名乗る男と出会う。 鎧武達は次こそ勝利してこどもたちが喜ぶ映画を作れるのか!?

(Gaia Memory of Fate?

The tickets for Cinema transport Gaim and his friends to a strange place, where they meet a man who calls himself『Kamen Rider』. Will they be able to win and make a movie that will entertain the kids?)

11:30

Ryugen: 「何度やっても、この映画館に戻ってきてしまうみたいですね。」 (「It seems that no matter how many times we do this, we keep coming back to this cinema. 」)

Baron: 「貴様の指示通りにやれば出られるんじゃなかったのか?」 (「Didn’t you said if we did what you told us to, we'd get out of here? 」)

Reina: 「映画からは出られたでしょ?」 (「You got out of the movie, didn't you? 」)

Reito: 「また途中で終わっちゃった...。 つまんない。」 (「It ended in the middle again... 。It's boring. 」)

Cinema: 「何故だ! お前達を呼んだのが間違っていたのか?」 (「Why! Was it wrong of me to summon you? 」)

Ryugen: 「かもね...。どの映画のタイトルも」 (May be...。The title of any movie」)

Ryugen: 「それぞれの主役の名前が書かれてるみたいだよ。」 (「It's like they have the names of each main actors written on them.」)

Cinema: 「何? どういうことだ?」 (What? What do you mean?)

Reina: 「彼らはこの映画の主人公ではないってことじゃないかしら。」 (「I guess what his means is they're not the heroes of this movie. 」)

Cinema: 「なるほど...。 仮面ライダーなら誰でもいいわけではなく」 (「I see... 。 It can not just be any random Kamen Rider.」)

Cinema: 「映画にはそれぞれ適した登場人物の活躍が必要ということか。」 (「So each film needs its own appropriate characters to play an active role. 」)

Cinema: 「ならば...!」 (Then...!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrMhX5K8278&list=PLFOlo_3G6mH-XRFpAfEoNXHmWCjMNCtyw&index=4

花道オンステージ!!

散らばったチケットを探すため様々な映画が混ざり合ったスクリーンの中を進む一行は敵の集団に見つかってしまう。 仮面ライダー達はこれを突破する事が出来るのか!?

(Hanamichi on Stage!

The group of riders, who are searching for the scattered tickets, find themselves in the middle of a screen where various movies are mixed together. Will the Kamen Riders be able to break through?)

To summarize this up, Cinema viewed the Kamen Riders as a fictional film in which he could freely change the scenarios or summon any Riders he desired. It is stated that no Riders can stand up to him in the movie theater, and they are unable to leave and must continue to play in these films until the children are satisfied.

There is another thing: Cinema and the children are already dead, and this theater serves as a sort of afterlife for them.

https://imgur.com/a/t1CCUA5

(Reito remembers something and tries to convey it, but he is kidnapped by Cinema. Can Kamen Riders regain Reito and bring down the curtain on this phantom world!?)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cbh...-kLS8zeMk_seQE3r0gf3wySKp5H&index=35&t=39m15s

礼人は、長年愛したこの映画館で息を引き取った。
でも、この子は、 自分が死んだことにも気づかず
その魂だけがこの映画館に留まり続けた。
姿も記憶も幼い頃に戻り
大好きなヒーロー映画に没頭する毎日。
私はこの映画館で、 この子と一緒に居られることが
嬉しかったの...。
映画館は私の代で閉館することになってしまった。
だが、この映画館も私に似てね...
自分が閉館になったことに気付かなかった。

Reito passed away in this movie theater that he loved for many years.
But this child doesn't even know he's dead
Only his soul continued to stay in this movie theater.
His appearance and memories return to his childhood
Every day I immerse myself in my favorite hero movie.
I can be with this girl in this movie theater
I was so happy...
The movie theater has closed in my generation.
But this movie theater looks like me...
I didn't realize I was closed.

Given how these places are named “the world of the dead," "the world of the disembodied," and “the phantom world," they all refer to the same place where the soul passes through after death. It’s a place beyond conventional knowledge. Along with Saver claiming it’s a higher plane and Cinema viewing the Riders as movie fiction, we could assume that the world of the dead is a higher dimension.


Now we return to the main point: Badan requires Shuu's power to turn the worlds of the dead and the living. This led to two conclusions:
  • Since 7-dimensional power is required, it would imply that the world of the dead is the 7th dimension.
  • To reverse the world of the dead, you will need to affect the 7th dimension itself.
 
the-game-is-just-getting-started-just-started.gif

I have a lot to express, especially about the conclusion you made, which isn't hinted at in the story at all.

Counter-argument 1​


In attempting to comprehend the relevance of certain information to the 7D component, I have noticed that there are inconsistencies between the initial scan and your subsequent interpretation.

For example, your mention of the Gaia Library suggests that it contains all information and concepts from Earth to the universe, whereas the scan merely suggests a search on a larger, universal scale. The scan does not explicitly indicate that the Gaia Library contains all information, therefore your argument may be overextended.

While your analysis of the Double Extreme scan is intriguing, it appears that you may be taking some of the "infinite" statements too literally, while the overall meaning of the sentence suggests something else entirely.

It may be more beneficial to focus on the primary information presented in the scan, rather than the description itself.
This allows you to detect the enemy's movements in advance and adopt a very advantageous fighting style that is one step ahead.

So let's focus on the premise of this explanation you gave
The world of the dead is a world where people who have no bodies live; in other words, it is a world of spirits. It is a place beyond conventional knowledge, as the knowledge from the Gaia Library can’t reach it.
Your statement is largely accurate, although it contains some exaggerated descriptions. Specifically, the scans you presented, and the available information submit that our understanding of the world is limited. However, it is not explicitly stated that the world is beyond conventional knowledge or that certain information is inaccessible.

Rather, the information provided merely suggests that we do not have verified information regarding the afterlife. Therefore, it would be more accurate to acknowledge the limitations of our current understanding, rather than making exaggerated claims about the nature of the world.

So in conclusion, this has nothing to do with dimensionality or cosmology.

Counter-argument 2​


I respectfully disagree with your interpretation of the statement "his soul ascending to a higher plane". In my understanding, this phrase is meant to be taken metaphorically, as a way of describing that Saver in question is behaving like a ghost or spirit and therefore should not be allowed to interfere with the physical world.

While it is possible to interpret this phrase in different ways, I believe that the use of metaphorical language in this context is intentional and meant to convey a particular meaning. Therefore, I would suggest that we consider the metaphorical implications of this statement, rather than taking it at face value.

Once again, this appears to lack any relevance to cosmological purposes.

Counter-argument 3​


So the way I understand the dialogue is that the main characters are confused about whether they are in a dream or not after realizing they are in the movie theater where they first met. Suddenly, the theater's alarm goes off and the screening of the movie they were watching ends. They hear a man talking about a movie that he enjoyed, and then he introduces himself as “Cinema” and tells the characters that they are going to make movies that children will enjoy. However, the characters are hesitant, and they question what making movies involves.

How does this relate to cosmology? The absence of any reference to "higher dimensions" and the naming of the worlds do not suggest or imply that they exist in a higher dimension.
  • Since 7-dimensional power is required, it would imply that the world of the dead is the 7th dimension.
  • To reverse the world of the dead, you will need to affect the 7th dimension itself.
The process of cosmology scaling does not operate in the manner described. It should be noted that the requirement is for the ability referred to as "7-dimensional power," and not for the utilization of 7-dimensional power itself. The naming of dimensions, be it 7 or 20, cannot be used to establish their qualitative superiority, which is a prerequisite for cosmological scaling.

However, there are three exceptions where dimensional scaling is valid, particularly in instances where infinite dimensionality exists in a High 1-B tier without the need for qualitative superiority. It is important to note that being referred to as "n-dimensional" does not automatically imply a corresponding tier, and the same applies to lower dimensions.
  • 0-D, Infinite dimensionality, temporal dimensions.
All these are in VSBW tiering system FAQ, you can anytime review them.

In my opinion, I must state that the second conclusion is incorrect. There is no evidence to support, demonstrate or imply this assertion. This conclusion appears to be an overextended assumption that is based on irrelevant information (which even irrelevant information does not imply that)
 
@ImmortalDread

Fair point about the Gaia Library.

The part about Cinema is that he exists in a world in which he can freely manipulate the Riders and insert them into whatever movie scenes he wants. It was shown when he took out a ticket, tore it out, the frames began to play, and the riders were assigned actors to play them. Some examples are Kamen Rider W's movie (0:15), Kamen Rider Gaim and Wizard crossover (13:55), Kamen Rider Fourze's movie (11:25), etc. All of these movies take place in different periods of time and places, yet Cinema is able to switch between them like playing a movie. The fact that the place is a movie theater pretty much suggests it. So, it's R/F qualitative superiority for Cinema and his world.

What we need to be concerned with is how it is called the phantom world and that it's a place where Cinema's soul lingers. This place could be the same "world of the dead" where dead people reside.

As for the point about seven-dimensional power, I'm aware that claiming something to be seven-dimensional does not automatically grant 1-C. In our case, however, we already have several pieces of evidence to support qualitative superiority as a basis. What I'm trying to prove here is that there is a seventh dimension, which is the world of the dead, and use all the evidence to establish a relationship of qualitative superiority.

That'll bring back the point about Geats' 3.5-D world and Utopian's 4-D space. Now, I don't just assume the naming of dimensions is the requirement for higher dimensions; rather, I infer the qualitative superiority relationship based on all the specs evidence because it has to do with how dimensions are generally portrayed in the verse. From this, I would conclude that being referred to as "n-dimensional" would be meaningful tiering.

There are two points here: First, the world of the dead is implied to be the seventh dimension based on Shuu's power. Second, the world of the dead and Cinema's phantom world are possibly the same, which is a place that views the Rider's world as fictional. The cosmology scaling here works with the established qualitative superiority relationship, therefore resulting to a corresponding tier.

For those who are unaware, here are the specs I'm talking about:


Revice Eye: Compound eyes of Kamen Rider Revice. By adding electromagnetic elements to the kinetic vision and wide viewing angle of carnivorous dinosaurs, it is possible to accurately capture the movement of any small target. In addition, it is possible to visualize even high-dimensional beings that were difficult to grasp until now, albeit with a low probability, further increasing the hit rate of attacks.


D Eye
A compound eye consisting of countless visual elements. Each eye is equipped with advanced image analysis capabilities and can see infrared, ultraviolet, and x-rays outside the visible spectrum, as well as zoom in and out. The "D" stands for dimension, and Skyrider is able to switch freely between these multidimensional visual information to see the outside world. Their visual acuity is 20 times that of humans, or 30 times after enhancement.


Gazer Vision

Kamen Rider Gazer visual device.
High-dimensional images processed in real time from cameras on various parts of the body are displayed on an internal hemispherical monitor to provide a seamless view of the real and virtual worlds.

While these specs may belong to different characters in different series, they all share the following characteristics:
+It is called higher dimension (高次元)
+Higher dimensions cannot be comprehended by lower beings, or humans in this case, and they are referred to as "the outside world".
+Higher dimensions (real world) are “realer” than lower ones (virtual world)

While each series may incorporate its own lore and theme, the portrayal of higher dimensions is fairly universal across all series.


The recent Kamen Rider series, Kamen Rider Geats, has some interesting information. Firstly, there are the specs about Kamen Rider Gazer’s ability to view higher dimensions, as seen above. Secondly, the world in which Geats takes place is a 3.5-dimensional world. Thirdly, Geats’s world is used for entertainment by future people who are dimensional travelers.

Here is the 3.5D world statement for reference:




https://imgur.com/a/a1zH6HX

According to this, future people will self-impose the rules of whatever dimensions they visit; by doing so, they will be able to feel 3.5-D emotions. This means future people come from a dimension higher than Geats’s world, where they are devoid of emotions.

In Kamen Rider Super-1, there is a monster called Kogoenbee who can send people to Utopian, an ideal world in four-dimensional space.

https://imgur.com/a/DNixKFA

コゴエンベエ
幽霊博士配下。冷蔵庫を介して子供たちを四次元空間にある理想郷「ユートピアン」へと連れ去り、ジンドグマへの支持者を 増やそうと計画した。 右手と肩から噴射する「コゴエンベエ冷凍 ガス」が武器。最後は「スーパーライダー月面キック」を喰らい、 「無念」という断末魔とともに敗れ去った。(声:山下啓介/第 38話)

Cogo Enbaye
A subordinate of Dr. Ghost. He planned to increase the number of supporters of Jindogma by taking children away to "Utopian," an ideal world in four-dimensional space, via a refrigerator. His weapon of choice is the "Kogoembehe Refrigeration Gas," which he shoots from his right hand and shoulder. In the end, he was defeated by the "Super Rider Moon Kick" with a cry of "regret. (voiced by Keisuke Yamashita, episode 38)

コゴエンベエ
度重なる敗北に剛を煮やした悪魔元 幽霊博士に作らせた。打倒・ 仮面ライダースーパー用の怪人だ。 体の型は、家庭用の冷蔵庫を模して 作られている。体(冷蔵庫)のトビ ラを開けると、中は4次元空間に通 しており、開けた人間を異空間へと 送り込んでしまう。そして次々と人 を消して行く、文字通り冷たい奴。

Cogo Enbaye
The demon ex-Dr. Ghost, who had become frustrated with his repeated defeats, had him created. He is a monster designed to defeat Kamen Rider Super. The shape of his body is made to resemble a household refrigerator. When the door of the body (the refrigerator) is opened, the inside leads to the fourth-dimensional space, and the person who opens it is sent into the other space. He is literally cold.

Scans by @ZeedKZ
 
147bba012d5781ead622f9c2a4a02be2.gif

@Jamesthetaker nice having a civil conversation with you​

I want to emphasize that quantifying 3.5D (fractal/decimal dimensions) is impossible. Therefore, it is incorrect to assume that they are vastly superior to 3D or almost equivalent to 4D without providing a detailed explanation of the underlying laws that govern this world.

In fact, describing the functioning of this world's laws is more intriguing.

(Fractal dimensions have distinct characteristics from integer dimensions)
As for the point about seven-dimensional power, I'm aware that claiming something to be seven-dimensional does not automatically grant 1-C. In our case, however, we already have several pieces of evidence to support qualitative superiority as a basis. What I'm trying to prove here is that there is a seventh dimension, which is the world of the dead, and use all the evidence to establish a relationship of qualitative superiority.
Demonstrating the existence of higher dimensions in the universe is distinct from the fallacy of taking names at face value, as they are two separate concepts.

There is no evidence to suggest that the term “7D" is relevant to the cosmology of the verse, despite it being the name of an ability. Additionally, the ability's description does not pertain to cosmology.

While the presence of 4D has been alluded to, it is unclear if they align with the conventional space-time continuum/low 2-C definition. Therefore, referencing any mention of higher dimensions, no matter how vaguely described, as evidence of qualitative superiority is invalid.
That'll bring back the point about Geats' 3.5-D world and Utopian's 4-D space. Now, I don't just assume the naming of dimensions is the requirement for higher dimensions; rather, I infer the qualitative superiority relationship based on all the specs evidence because it has to do with how dimensions are generally portrayed in the verse. From this, I would conclude that being referred to as "n-dimensional" would be meaningful tiering.

There are two points here: First, the world of the dead is implied to be the seventh dimension based on Shuu's power. Second, the world of the dead and Cinema's phantom world are possibly the same, which is a place that views the Rider's world as fictional. The cosmology scaling here works with the established qualitative superiority relationship, therefore resulting to a corresponding tier.
Could you show me how the idea of the world of the dead being in the seventh dimension is supported? I'm having trouble seeing any evidence aside from the name of Shuu's power.

Additionally, regarding your second point, simply considering the possibility that the world of the Rider is fictional does not provide a basis for positing three spatial dimensions, as it doesn't seem to make logical sense (the series as far as been using r>f transcendence individually, simply to jump from 4D to 7D using shuu's ability name is a hasty generalization)

Anyways, any dimensions represented by, isn't the same semantically
 
In addition, I was previously asked for my thoughts on the remaining content of the blog. I'm having difficulty understanding the concept of the hierarchy of fictional and real worlds, as portrayed by the cosmology ladder.

I find it gainsaying to comprehend how one world can perceive another as fictional while the latter may perceive the former as such, seemingly at random or based on predetermined one.

Therefore, if you could provide a conclusion and a clear explanation of the hierarchical view of cosmology, it would significantly aid my understanding.
 
Could you show me how the idea of the world of the dead being in the seventh dimension is supported? I'm having trouble seeing any evidence aside from the name of Shuu's power.
With all apologies I would like to correct some small mistake:

i. The world of the dead (Badan Empire) isn't the seventh dimension but rather a hold world of itself the location between dimension it is located is unknown. That why they want to capture shuu and abuse his power.

ii. Sorry but there are no details about the 7th Dimension illustration/images/description but only it power to shake the very foundation between dimension.

Thank you.

If there any errors I'm sorry please don't send shadow realm


 
Thank you for sharing the information, I also had the same thoughts as well.
 
@ImmortalDread


My pleasure. I'm glad that this discussion has been civil so far.

Anyway, back to the topic.

The assumption of the world of the dead being in the seventh dimension is from the Zukan page:
A boy who died in a car accident.

He regrets that he left this world without being able to convey his true intentions to his quarreling mother, and because of the strength of his wish, he obtained the "Power of the 7th Dimension" in Yomi no Kuni (realm of the dead).

Seeing his power to reverse everything, the Badan Empire developed the Mega Reverse Machine that could turn the worlds of the dead and the living upside down.
Seventh-dimensional powers are obtained in the world of the dead, so this alluded to the realm being the seventh dimension. This leads back to the name fallacy because the 7-D part is associated with an actual location. This is not even to mention the possible connection between Cinema's phantom world, which will bear more on cosmology.

I'm not sure why @Sougo_and_Kurumi is saying Badan Empire and the World of the Dead are the same, but they're not. The description from the Zukan said this:
めがりばーすけいかく
【 メガ・リバース計画 】
黄泉の国であるバダン帝国が企てた計画。

葵柊が持つ「七次元の力」とメガ・リバースマシンを利用し、亡者と生者の世界をひっくり返すというものであった。[#平成VS昭和]

Megari Base Keikaku
[Mega Reverse Plan]
A plan planned by the Badan Empire, the country of the underworld.

Using Aoi Hiiragi's "power of the 7th dimension" and the Mega Reverse Machine, they turned the worlds of the dead and the living upside down. [# Heisei VS Showa]
The Badan Empire is a base set in the world of the dead; the way they claim to be "the underworld" is how they represent the dead people symbolically. Also, we do, at least in part, have a visual representation of the world of the dead. It's pretty much the world, but in reverse.
Link

As far as I've known, the tiering Q&A stated that higher dimensions are valid when there is an established relationship of qualitative superiority. The evidence of higher dimensions lines up with how Ideon portrays them. It shows that there is a general consensus on the concepts in the verse. Of course, there is R/F interaction too, which applies to the real world and Cinema's world. My understanding is that if the world of the dead is the seventh dimension, I can assume the corresponding tiering based on the relationship of superiority as generalized in the verse.

As for your concern with the fiction and real-world hierarchy, I'll separate into two sides (Rider and Sentai, respectively):

Sentai Side:

In Akibaranger, there exists the Delusion World, which is a place directly connected to the Super Sentai multiverse. The heroes can enter this world by transforming into Rangers. Any events that happen in Delusion World would effectively change the Super Sentai series as a whole. The Super Sentai series includes Donbrothers which is the series that set up Ideon's higher dimension. We would set the Delusion World as the base world that contains Super Sentai within it.

Then we come to the "real world" of Akibaranger, which is where the main heroes live. They basically saw the Super Sentai series as fictional and the Delusion World as, well, delusion. This would make them transcend one level above Ideon.

In the end of Akibaranger, we have Saburo Hatte/Yatsude, who saw the Akibaranger as fictional in the manner the latter would with the Delusion World. He would transcend one level above Akibaranger's "real world."

Rider Side:​

We then come to the Super Hero Senki crossover movie, where Akibaranger makes a cameo in their Rangers form; therefore, we assume that Delusion World would include both the Rider and Sentai multiverses.

From the same movie, we also know that Kamen Rider Saber saw the entirety of Sentai and Rider as fictional books; therefore, they would be one level above Delusion World.

We are then introduced to Shotaro Ishinomori, who is said to be the creator of Sentai and Rider and can write both franchises into existence. This would place him above the Saber world.

Finally, we have the "real world" from Heisei Generation Forever which takes place in "our reality," where the Kamen Rider franchise originates. Using the same logic above, this would be the same reality as Hatte and Shotaro.

To sum it up, here is what the hierarchies look like:

Super Sentai/Kamen Rider multiverses = Delusion World
II
v
Akibaranger's "real world" = Saber's world
II
v
Hatte = Shotaro = Heisei Generation Forever's world
 
here something if this means anything

Engine Sentai Go-Onger​

Braneworlds​

"This world is comprised of 11 seperate dimensions, layered upon each other like the layers of a cake. You humans live in this dimension, Human World. And the Engines come from Machine World. There's others, too, like Samurai World and Christmas World."BOMPER explains the Braneworlds to the Gokaigers
In Engine Sentai Go-Onger, the concept of Braneworlds is used. A total of eleven known Braneworlds exist. Of them, four Braneworlds have been ruined by the Banki Clan Gaiark. badguys that traveled to the human world
bomper is the info dump
gokaigers is like decade
this is before Kikai Sentai Zenkaiger
 
Last edited:

Sanzu River​

A dimension within Earth realm that harbors the deceased and "Gedou", demonic beings who committed evil deeds in thier previous life and are removed from the cycle of reincarnation. It is connected to the Earth dimension via cracks which they traverse to invade and cause havoc. Batcheed attempted to utilized the waters of the river to destroy all Braneworlds; while the three deceased Pollution Ministers escaped there to enjoy their afterlife.
 
here something if this means anything

Engine Sentai Go-Onger​

Braneworlds​

"This world is comprised of 11 seperate dimensions, layered upon each other like the layers of a cake. You humans live in this dimension, Human World. And the Engines come from Machine World. There's others, too, like Samurai World and Christmas World."BOMPER explains the Braneworlds to the Gokaigers
In Engine Sentai Go-Onger, the concept of Braneworlds is used. A total of eleven known Braneworlds exist. Of them, four Braneworlds have been ruined by the Banki Clan Gaiark. badguys that traveled to the human world
bomper is the info dump
gokaigers is like decade
this is before Kikai Sentai Zenkaiger
Is layer here mean higher dimension ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top