Top 10 Strongest Swordsmen 2

[YungManzi]

All statistics are equal for the purpose of this thread ("My infinity is bigger than yours" doesn't matter here) . Also, all abilities unrelated to sword skills are not accounted for.

1) Abilities granted by a sword like Akame (character)'s poison are not allowed.

2)Things like Precognition and Information Analysis are actually allowed, as long as they're via intelligence/skill and not a supernatural ability.

3) No "Transcending Skill"

This is find the 10 best swordsmen on the wiki.

Strongest Swordsme

1. Khorne (Possibly Lower) | Oryx, the Taken King | Juuzou Shishimi

2. Assassin (Fate/stay night)

3. Sion Zail

4. SCP-076 | Yasuo

5. Drizzt Do'Urde | Tactimo

6. Character's from Katanagatari

7. Musashi Miyamoto (Baki) | Protagonist (Mysteries of Baroque) | Reinhard van Astrea

8. Darth Sidious

9. The Operator

10. Composite Human (Possibly Lower) | Characters from Rurouni Kenshi

 

[Paul_Frank]

If Juuzou is up there because of his concept cutting I nominate Mibu still ovo

 

[YungManzi]

Mibu got negged because of his "Trancending Skill" stuffs.

 

[The_Causality]

Ajimu can cut concept too

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

We are rating skill by concept cutting now?

 

[The_Causality]

We are rating skill by concept cutting now?

If you can cut concepts only with pure skill like Juuzo, yes

 

[YungManzi]

Isn't there already a most skilled swordsmen list? This isn't that.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Then what was the point of the entire last thread? I could have sworn skill was a main factor there as that is what was argued for most of the thread...

 

[WeeklyBattles]

...Bruh

 

[YungManzi]

Skill and experience is a factor, but it's more so "What you can accomplish with that skill and experience in a stat equal fight".

It's why things like precog, information analysis, and concept cutting are allowed.(As long as they're via skill and not a supernatural/magical ability)

 

[Paul_Frank]

Mibu only transcends skill as a 1-A afaik because that's kinda what being a 1-A means

 

[A_Stoned_Orc]

..I still find that "concept cutting" thing, and "skill abilities" like it to be utter crap when it comes to the mechanics of a swordfight, since that can literally circumvent those mechanics entirely and make it to where the skill of the opponent or the wielder is absolutely meaningless ("Oh, hey, I cut the concept of parrying, so now you can't deflect my attacks! Oh, hey, I cut the concept of "longsword" so now you don't even have a sword! Oh, hey, I cut the entire concept of your martial art in half, so there's literally nothing you can do and I could easily kill you with the most ridiculous, sloppy overbalanced sword stroke possible!"), but okay, OP.

 

[YungManzi]

This makes thing a lot less clear cut than a pure skill list where the top of the list is full of people like "I've been swordfighting for X many years!!"

I think theres already a sword skill list anyway.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

The issue is that people who can "cut concepts" via skill are hard to rate as just because it's possible to cut concepts via skill in one verse, that doesn't mean it is possible in another. That's basically giving them an unfair edge because their verse mechanics are different. At this point it might as well be an ability and this list becomes arbitrary.

 

[Epiccheev]

Let's be honest, rating true pure skill subjectively is impossible, since each person will have their own interpretation of more impressive or better feat, while rating it objectively would be boring as it just turns into counting how many martial arts/sword magics eons of experience and people they have bested.

If an author decides their characters can learn to cut concepts,steal someone's techniques and bank account just by glancing or fire laser beams from their swords through whatever nonsense swordsmanship techniques are attainable in-verse,sure, it's fiction, and most of the time it doesn't need to make sense.

I say we just rate characters in order of how haxed their skill attained swordsmanship powers makes them from a Tier null Speed equal standpoint, like OP said

 

[YungManzi]

Well, plenty of verses have an advantage simply because of they way the verse works; hell, dimensional tiering in general is completely based on this.

I don't see the issue. If this rule isn't a thing, this list wouldn't be much different from most skilled swordsmen...which was never my intention when making the thread.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Dragon, we're not trying to rate "how hard is cutting concepts". There is a reason i got Juzou to that spot. He was lower. Juzou is there cus let's assume it's fodder af to learn the concept cutting, as in 1 day of training and GG. Still, the fact that he can do that with skill, it means it doesn't get negged here. And there are few people who can deal with it in this list. There are few people who can deal with an absolute cut that cuts everything in it's path even beyond the swords range and that can cut through even invulnerability and defensive stuff.

That's what we're doing with the concept cutting. Not assuming he can literally cut concepts. I assume its a bit like Ikki "becoming the concept of a slash" or sth like that. Idk what exactly it means in verse.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok so, Ikki Kurogane is back. So let's see how he fairs up against the top 4.

Assassin: His invisibility is useless due to ikki's hearing. Tsubame Gaeshi is literally the weaker version of what Ikki had to deal with. And in terms of overall swordmastery i do not think Ikki can lose to him especially when he has stuff like Trackless Step and such.

Juuzou: The concept cutting means it will 1 shot ikki. Ikki has dealt with plent of 1 shots however. Ikki's danger sense will keep him safe for long enough, his trackless step and the rest of his skills will definitely prevail here. Can't cut what you can't see.

Oryx: Need more context on what his skill allows him to do.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I really don't see how Tsubame Gaeshi is the weaker version of what Kuraudo has done?

 

[YungManzi]

Oh yeah...this...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

I really don't see how Tsubame Gaeshi is the weaker version of what Kuraudo has done?

He does 8 attacks simultaneously with a sword that will get you wherever you are (cannot get out of range like you can do to Tsubame Gaeshi [not to mention excal literally ducked it]).

Tsubame Gaeshi is just 3, and the range of the sword is limited.

 

[John985]

If you actually read the feats of Kojiro, it's not 3 but infinite.

"A sword of infinity that leads to multiplicity. A way to acknowledge "multiple possibilities". An "infinite" sword that gives birth to several "correct answers". That is Kojiro's "Tsubame Gaeshi". A sword that creates a "future" that not even the gods can escape from."

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

But you can't get out of range with Tsubame Gaeshi?

Tsubame Gaeshi is directly compared to Gae Bolg, which literally twists Causality to hit you, despte "just being" 3 sword strikes. The only person that escapes it is Saber, who only did it because she has a 6th sense that literally tells her her best option in battle and because Sasaki's sword was cracked. If it wasn't, as Saber points out, nothing would have saved her and she'd be dead.

 

[John985]

Finally have the translation. The guy he's fighting also said that he was so skilled that he can reach 4th dimension too.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

In every time it has been used, it has been shown as simply 3 swords existing at the exact same time. Nothing says you can't get out of each sword. He cannot cut you when you are out of range, and the twisting causality ain't gonna work, because if that really did happen, Saber wouldn't have ducked it.

There is nothing to say you can't just backstep if you're fast enough or predict the attack. Besides, as i said Ikki literally blocked 4 attacks simultaneously then used Ten I Muhou on 8 attacks at the same time.

 

[John985]

In every time it has been used, it has been shown as simply 3 swords existing at the exact same time. Nothing says you can't get out of each sword. He cannot cut you when you are out of range, and the twisting causality ain't gonna work, because if that really did happen, Saber wouldn't have ducked it.

The feat Im using is not on FSN, but FGO EoR 3. And he was also in Saber class that suited him.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

Ok, but im pretty sure that even then it wasn't shown to be more than 3, just fancy writing.

Also he still has no answer to Trackless Step, Ikki's senses, and Pseudo Ittou Shura.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

... Uuuhh... "It is possible to avoid the incomplete version with two slashes by escaping to the side, but the real technique is nearly impossible to survive. Saber, fighting with pure technique due to being unable to use Excalibur at that range, manages to defeat it after Assassin allows his sword to be damaged in order to lure her onto flat ground. Through her precognition and pure determination, she is able to see the weak point in the technique, a tiny opening between his left arm and waist. She only barely manages to avoid being cut while rushing through the opening, and the only reason it was a success was due to her experience with the technique used beforehand on her and the damaged blade. If the blade had been in perfect condition, the technique would have stayed invincible."

Saber, while having a Sixth Sense just as Ikki and noticing she would die if she stayed in range, still has no time to evade out of the way of Tsubame Gaeshi before Assassin even says the name. The technicque as well has a range of 3 Meters.

Except those attacks are not simultaneous. No matter how fast Kuraudo is moving, he's still just moving his hand. Tsubame Gaeshi is TRULY simultaneous, there's literally 3 blades moving towards you.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

To saber who's not nearly as skilled as Ikki.

That's just being fast. Pseudo Ittou Shura, gives ikki perception and reaction time 48x faster than normal. He's not gonna suffer the same fate. And there is also the fact that Trackless Step is a thing. Can't hit what you can't see.

Not truly simltaneous, someone who is fast enough would realize that, from Ikki's perspective it was several simultaneous attacks though. So not the same thing, but for Ikki it's the same.

 

[John985]

Ok, but im pretty sure that even then it wasn't shown to be more than 3, just fancy writing.

If your going by this point, then Im gonna say the same thing to you. Those 8 attacks simultaneously are fancy writing too.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

If your going by this point, then Im gonna say the same thing to you. Those 8 attacks simultaneously are fancy writing too.

The problem is you can't. You're using a couple of infinite statements with severe lack of feats. Im using something that was actually show. (the anime does a pretty bad job at showing it, as it looks just cringy, but you get the point, the same technique was used to fend shots from a literal army of skeletons holding machineguns).

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

You are talking about moving away from the attack range. Skill has nothing to do with the speed to move away from an attack that has started.

Saber is not really the issue here, though. The statement about Tsubame Gaeshi is stated generally, not just about Saber. Not to mention that Knowledge of Respect and Harmony means its harder to deal with the attack.

... Fire, can you actually stop stating stuff you have no backing for? Sasaki literally breaks physics and makes 3 swords appear at the same time by interference with parallel worlds. Arthuria says as much when she calls him a lunatic in her head for saying he just "attacked 3 times almost simultaneously" and saying that's bull, before calling it Multidimensional Reflaction Phenomenom.

 

[John985]

The problem is you can't. You're using a couple of infinite statements with severe lack of feats. Im using something that was actually show. (the anime does a pretty bad job at showing it, as it looks just cringy, but you get the point, the same technique was used to fend shots from a literal army of skeletons holding machineguns).

FSN is from 2004, and the anime is from 2014. FGO EoR 3 is from 2017. So it's a new showing of feats.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

You are talking about moving away from the attack range. Skill has nothing to do with the speed to move away from an attack that has started.
... Fire, can you actually stop stating stuff you have no backing for? Sasaki literally breaks physics and makes 3 swords appear at the same time by interference with parallel worlds. Arthuria says as much when she calls him a lunatic in her head for saying he just "attacked 3 times almost simultaneously" and saying that's bull, before calling it Multidimensional Reflaction Phenomenom.

Skill that allows you to speed up your reaction to hell and back, makes you become invisible to your opponent and literally give you all of Ikki's arsenal changes things. As i said, Assassin can't even see Ikki, let alone start tsubame gaeshi.

I meant that about Kuraudo actually... For Ikki Kuraudo and Assassin are doing the same thing, despite Kuraudo just having fast af reactions while assassin being skill.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except they are still not, if Ikki can actually match the three swords. That's not simultenous, that's a sword moving fast. Not to mention that, as described before, Sasaki literally makes a cage out of the blades. Back, to the sides, above, Saber considers all these alternative ways of escape and realizes the way the swords are encroaching, the two others will get her no matter what she does.

Not quite. Mind's Eye means Sasaki has a sixth sense or premonition for danger and battle as well. Vitrification means he can also conceal his presence as well

 

[Firephoenixearl]

When did that actually happen (the one on the back, above etc)?

That's literally what Trackless Step counters, it makes Ikki's moves appear so unimportant they are willingly erased from memory and blocked by the mind. They are not perceived as dangerous. Concealing is presence as i said is not gonna work, ikki has za hearing.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

In the fight with Saber in the Visual Novel. Saber analyzes and realizes that by the angles of the sword, no directional movement will help, Tsubame Gaeshi is made to block you in a "cage" of slashes. How Sasaki manages this with merely 3 slashes is hard to say, but there's a reason the only chance Saber had was his sword cracking and destroying his technique however slightly. Up, sides, front and back.

Servants also have ridiculous senses, but it works on them the same. Vitrification is not the same as Presence Concealment but it is close, and Jack while using it happily dragged a body up a street full with pedestrians and no one noticed a thing.

I also realized if I can ever make an Infernal with Monster Style martial arts have a profile in here, may be fun to put him against Ikki...

 

[Firephoenixearl]

3 swords, 4 sides.... yeah it's big brain time. Im pretty sure she just meant like, you cannot backstep fast enough, thing which for Ikki (who disregards the concept of acceleration and goes from 0 to top speed instantly), would be much easier, not to mention. Agility he can literally slip through places it should be impossible to slip into. Here are some feats

And they saw him.

Ikki, who had brought down his body and almost touched the ground, ran through the narrow gaps in the jostling crowd with an agility like he was a cat.

That's right, Ikki hadn't disappeared.

The process called acceleration was skipped, he left behind the dynamic vision of all the crowd that were attacking him thanks to his body that went at maximum speed from the start.

So he could just slip inbetween the blades if he so wishes.

Hmm, trust me when i say, none are on the level of Ikki. As long as someone is physically existent, no matter how invisible ikki can find him.

The venue was circular, and the sounds from the audience audience covered it. Within that sound was… a human-shaped void!

"Over there!"

It only took a split second for Ikki to switch from sight to sound, locate Sara, and cut towards her

Just existing is enough to form a void in sound by the fact that sound doesn't go through you, Ikki knows the exact position just from that.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

No. She literally says, "if I move this way, the sword moving this way will get me. If I come from the sides, this other one. Try jumping? Well, ****." It is, again, literally described as a cage of slashes and Saber has no time to even jump back even though she knows its coming before the name is even uttered.

Considering she can undo her armor and use the tightly packed air around her sword to up her speed by 3 times, plus the above, I am gonna go with no. Saber had enough time to use Excalibur on Via Expugnatio, a pair of bulls pulling a chariot, even as it closed the distance between them from a street to literally in front of her in a mere instant, and yet she couldn't do this on Tsubame Gaeshi. It has nothing to do with speed, and less so with maneuverability.

And this is all coming from a super lithe 1,50 cms tall girl that has enough reaction time to tell where the slashes are coming from and still determines its impossible. There's no space, the only space in the technique was when she broke his sword and it was described as minuscule.

 

[Firephoenixearl]

They all kind of dodged the whole point of Ikki trackless stepping and loling literally all of Assassin's skills.