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Today we'll be discussing one of the most overlooked stats in the verse: Speed (TV version). I have to note that a good chunk of the basis of this is from a thread that I had to abandon due to time issues, and it's a bit old now. It's better this way regardless, as I can go in-depth on this issue and not get sidetracked with other two
1.- Immortal Flight Speed Upgrade
This calculation has been sitting in the verse's page for a while and it's about time to apply it. This upgrade Immortal's flight speed from Supersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic+
It's been said before that show has a bit of Marvel's problem of portraying everyone as somewhat comparable to each other and this extends to speed. Immortal, Hail Mary and Powerplex are right now MFTL+ despite fighting people who were nowhere near moving that fast because supposedly
The thing is, while he hasn't shown to be able to reduce it, he sure has shown to be able to significantly increase it
Let's go through this step by step (1)
S1 Mark doesn't scale to Omni-Man in any front, including speed, scaling to feats of his own. Besides being how the site currently handles it, it just narratively makes sense
Hail Mary currently scales to Omni-Man's MFTL+ speed due to being able to catch him mid-flight and the logic displayed above, and this is where we meet our first issue
Despite this difference in speed, Mark can keep up with Omni-Man and Hail Mary just fine, even dodging an attack and outpacing the latter who keep in mind is a bloodlusted state right there
Adding to this, Mark could also fly up to Omni-Man so fast he couldn't do anything but take all those hits
With what's been shown, should Mark scale to Omni-Man's speed ? Obviously not. For all the showings of Mark keeping up with them combat speed-wise, Omni-Man can still increase his speed to the point of statue-ing him. For any number of reasons he doesn't do this all the time, but it's there and shows that the speeds at which he operates do vary
Another example of this is Red Rush. His trademark as a speedster is his perception is always as fast as he is, with him being so fast he pretty much perception-blitzes all the Guardians, Immortal and War Woman included, who in combat speed are currently scaling to Omni-Man. Despite this Omni-Man for a brief moment moved his hand so fast Red Rush couldn't get away and promptly killed him, and despite that it's not portrayed as if he has a significant speed advantage over the others during the rest of the fight, as they still manage to get various hits in.
Finally, we have the infamous feat of flying through the flaxan planet. While we currently don't have a calculation for the speed (that I know of at least), it's certainly below MFTL ranges and it's safe to say no character has traveled this fast on a planet ever since for obvious reasons
Now let's leave Nolan aside for a moment and focus on Mark as there are other characters who have kept up with him speed-wise
Let's go through this step by step (2)
All Teen Team members are comparable to each other speed-wise, no questions on that
Later on, some of them join the New Guardians of the Globe and again, everyone is portrayed as being relative to each other speed-wise most of the time except for Bulletproof and Immortal who can do full-speed rams with ther flight
Then comes the fight with the Mauler Twins, where they not only are able to take Immortal by surprise, momentarily knock him out and even somewhat keep up with him despite supposedly being always millions of times faster, but Dupli-Kate also manages to take one by surprise, land various hits and even react to his attacks
Let's go with an even more egregious example. In S1E5 Mark and Titan take on Machine Head, who summons his henchmen to fight them. They are eventually defeated but the Guardians of the Globe arrive on time, with the same line-up as above except for Bulletproof and Immortal, to continue the fight for them. Given how the fight plays out everyone involved would scale to Mark's Relativistic rating, except for one glaring issue, Battle Beast. He is currently MFTL+ scaling to viltrumites and we've got instances of Titan, Black Samson, and Robot all reacting to his attacks and even outmanuevering him, which circles back and scales to pretty much the rest of the verse
On a similar vein, in the Atom Eve special the Lizard League fought the OG Guardians of the Globe, and while they're overall weaker they're still portrayed as being comparable speed-wise, landing various hits and reacting to their attacks
So, also upgrade all these characters to MFTL+, or even Relativistic ? At least I'd disagree:
Evidently, everyone's combat speed is all over the place. These are the options we're left with and how I've come up to tackle them but I'm more than open to suggestions as they are by no means perfect
Option 1: Dividing several characters' speed into various ends.
Mostly using the stuff pointed out about Omni-Man's speed at the start as support and taking the general idea from this comment. This is aimed at characters whose flight gives them a huge mobility boost, and all the intended heavy-hitters who've kept up with them. This would affect all viltrumites, as well as characters up there like Immortal, War Woman, Martian Man, Allen and Battle Beast and Hail Mary. As seen with Omni-Man, flying and combat speeds are instrinsically related and it makes no sense to treat Immortal like this weird outlier with combat speed magnitudes above his flight. Going with this option would lead to:
- Downgrading various characters: Starting with the Maulers. If we were to remove their scaling to Mark, they still have a feat of their own of deflecting a rocket. Low tier characters like Rex Splode and Shapesmith would scale to this, and it would also serve as the lower-end speed for characters like Immortal, War Woman, Martian Man and...all those above them.
As said above I'm more than open to suggestions for these, as for example I'm not sure where Powerplex would end with this lol, neither Red Rush tho I assume upscaling Immortal or feats of his are calculated and yield higher than him, at least in his case his speed is explicitely stationary.
Agree: FinePoint
Disagree:
Neutral:
Option 2: No division, just selective scaling
Leave everything as is and dismiss most of what's been present above as outliersthese are all plot relevant fights tho. This would still mean some characters are downgraded, namely Hail Mary to Relativistic due to Mark being able to keep up with it, MFTL+ is still reserverd for Omni-Man and those who scale. However, Rex Splode and Shapesmith would be upgraded to Relativistic due to the Mauler Twins and Lizard League fights.
1.- Immortal Flight Speed Upgrade
This calculation has been sitting in the verse's page for a while and it's about time to apply it. This upgrade Immortal's flight speed from Supersonic+ to Massively Hypersonic+
- Agree: FinePoint
- Disagree:
- Neutral:
It's been said before that show has a bit of Marvel's problem of portraying everyone as somewhat comparable to each other and this extends to speed. Immortal, Hail Mary and Powerplex are right now MFTL+ despite fighting people who were nowhere near moving that fast because supposedly
And Mark currently scales to an extent
The thing is, while he hasn't shown to be able to reduce it, he sure has shown to be able to significantly increase it
Let's go through this step by step (1)
S1 Mark doesn't scale to Omni-Man in any front, including speed, scaling to feats of his own. Besides being how the site currently handles it, it just narratively makes sense
Hail Mary currently scales to Omni-Man's MFTL+ speed due to being able to catch him mid-flight and the logic displayed above, and this is where we meet our first issue
Despite this difference in speed, Mark can keep up with Omni-Man and Hail Mary just fine, even dodging an attack and outpacing the latter who keep in mind is a bloodlusted state right there
Adding to this, Mark could also fly up to Omni-Man so fast he couldn't do anything but take all those hits
With what's been shown, should Mark scale to Omni-Man's speed ? Obviously not. For all the showings of Mark keeping up with them combat speed-wise, Omni-Man can still increase his speed to the point of statue-ing him. For any number of reasons he doesn't do this all the time, but it's there and shows that the speeds at which he operates do vary
Another example of this is Red Rush. His trademark as a speedster is his perception is always as fast as he is, with him being so fast he pretty much perception-blitzes all the Guardians, Immortal and War Woman included, who in combat speed are currently scaling to Omni-Man. Despite this Omni-Man for a brief moment moved his hand so fast Red Rush couldn't get away and promptly killed him, and despite that it's not portrayed as if he has a significant speed advantage over the others during the rest of the fight, as they still manage to get various hits in.
Finally, we have the infamous feat of flying through the flaxan planet. While we currently don't have a calculation for the speed (that I know of at least), it's certainly below MFTL ranges and it's safe to say no character has traveled this fast on a planet ever since for obvious reasons
Now let's leave Nolan aside for a moment and focus on Mark as there are other characters who have kept up with him speed-wise
Let's go through this step by step (2)
All Teen Team members are comparable to each other speed-wise, no questions on that
Later on, some of them join the New Guardians of the Globe and again, everyone is portrayed as being relative to each other speed-wise most of the time except for Bulletproof and Immortal who can do full-speed rams with ther flight
Then comes the fight with the Mauler Twins, where they not only are able to take Immortal by surprise, momentarily knock him out and even somewhat keep up with him despite supposedly being always millions of times faster, but Dupli-Kate also manages to take one by surprise, land various hits and even react to his attacks
Let's go with an even more egregious example. In S1E5 Mark and Titan take on Machine Head, who summons his henchmen to fight them. They are eventually defeated but the Guardians of the Globe arrive on time, with the same line-up as above except for Bulletproof and Immortal, to continue the fight for them. Given how the fight plays out everyone involved would scale to Mark's Relativistic rating, except for one glaring issue, Battle Beast. He is currently MFTL+ scaling to viltrumites and we've got instances of Titan, Black Samson, and Robot all reacting to his attacks and even outmanuevering him, which circles back and scales to pretty much the rest of the verse
On a similar vein, in the Atom Eve special the Lizard League fought the OG Guardians of the Globe, and while they're overall weaker they're still portrayed as being comparable speed-wise, landing various hits and reacting to their attacks
So, also upgrade all these characters to MFTL+, or even Relativistic ? At least I'd disagree:
- Maulers can be tagged by regular bullets
- Titan can be tagged by regular bullets
- Dupli-Kate and Multi-Paul scale to each other, the latter who can be tagged by regular guns
- Dupli-Kate, Rex Splode and Rae also scale to the Lizard League , who's members can also be tagged by regular bullets
Evidently, everyone's combat speed is all over the place. These are the options we're left with and how I've come up to tackle them but I'm more than open to suggestions as they are by no means perfect
Option 1: Dividing several characters' speed into various ends.
Mostly using the stuff pointed out about Omni-Man's speed at the start as support and taking the general idea from this comment. This is aimed at characters whose flight gives them a huge mobility boost, and all the intended heavy-hitters who've kept up with them. This would affect all viltrumites, as well as characters up there like Immortal, War Woman, Martian Man, Allen and Battle Beast and Hail Mary. As seen with Omni-Man, flying and combat speeds are instrinsically related and it makes no sense to treat Immortal like this weird outlier with combat speed magnitudes above his flight. Going with this option would lead to:
- Downgrading various characters: Starting with the Maulers. If we were to remove their scaling to Mark, they still have a feat of their own of deflecting a rocket. Low tier characters like Rex Splode and Shapesmith would scale to this, and it would also serve as the lower-end speed for characters like Immortal, War Woman, Martian Man and...all those above them.
- For the Guardians I could see a clear cut "Mauler speed holding back, to Massively Hypersonic+" and for viltrumites who scale to Nolan "Mauler speed holding back, to Massively Hypersonic+, up to Massively FTL+", I'm making that distinction for the MFTL+ rating as, again, I'd rather people show feats on par with viltrumites' interstellar travel rather than the entire verse mooching off them, most Immortal has is his brief encounter with Allen in space, who's massively holding back. Taking that into account Hail Mary would also get he Guardians' speed rating
- Best I can think of is actually keeping the Mach 3 statement as that's roughly the speed everyone in that fight is meant to be at, which on Immortal's and co's end would look something like "Mauler speed holding back, to Supersonic+, up to Massively Hypersonic+" and on S1 Mark's "Mauler speed holding back, to Supersonic+, up to Relativistic". That's of course if we keep hanging onto it and not dismiss it now as an outlier due to current showings.
Agree: FinePoint
Disagree:
Neutral:
Option 2: No division, just selective scaling
Leave everything as is and dismiss most of what's been present above as outliers
- Agree:
- Disagree:
- Neutral:
- Agree:
- Disagree:
- Neutral:
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