- 9,289
- 3,282
Yes, let's get this over with
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Undertale & Durability Negation: Fact, or Fiction?
- Thread starter Moritzva
- Start date
- 26,116
- 3,649
I can't read through the whole thread but here's my thoughts:
No, it's not dura neg. Toriel visibly notices you are hurt if you've lost HP against monsters in front of her home, so attacks harm the body too. Undyne's spear quite visibly breaks stuff, too.
We never see a soul being harmed without the body. Or, at least, we have no reason to assume the body is fine. It can just as easily said that the Soul reflects the harm done to the body, since it's the culmination of one's being.
Magic can still harm souls and ghosts so NPI is given instead.
Sans still negates resistance or durability or whatever. He ignores armor and reduces your invincibility rate to zero (or nearly zero if you wear the glasses that boost it). He does 1 HP damage per frame. The idea is that regardless of your DEF you take 1HP damage, always, and he's just hitting you a lot... because Sans takes game mechanics literally.
No, it's not dura neg. Toriel visibly notices you are hurt if you've lost HP against monsters in front of her home, so attacks harm the body too. Undyne's spear quite visibly breaks stuff, too.
We never see a soul being harmed without the body. Or, at least, we have no reason to assume the body is fine. It can just as easily said that the Soul reflects the harm done to the body, since it's the culmination of one's being.
Magic can still harm souls and ghosts so NPI is given instead.
Sans still negates resistance or durability or whatever. He ignores armor and reduces your invincibility rate to zero (or nearly zero if you wear the glasses that boost it). He does 1 HP damage per frame. The idea is that regardless of your DEF you take 1HP damage, always, and he's just hitting you a lot... because Sans takes game mechanics literally.
- 2,730
- 831
There are many reasons this is completely wrong, but id rather not get into it right now, especially given how full this thread already is. I guess you can make the changes for the time being. But i cant guaruntee it wont change.
- 2,730
- 831
I dont have time for that right now. But as i said, the changes are fine for the time being.
- 26,116
- 3,649
Papyrus also ignores your dura, doing a constant 4 damage, except when you have 4 or less HP, in which case you always stay alive.
- 9,289
- 3,282
When?Ricsi-viragosi said:
- 2,730
- 831
Ummm. Thats just weakening his attacks so you dont die.
- 26,116
- 3,649
The only time you fight him..?
- 26,116
- 3,649
Not really. As long as you spare a single monster but level farm otherwise, you are still harmed a the same.Read this post said:
- 2,730
- 831
Im pretty sure taking less damage when closer to death happens a lot ingame. Someone taking less damage when nearer to death does not give the attacker durability negation at all.
- 26,116
- 3,649
That is the exception to the rule dude. Regardless of you armor, level and DEF, papyrus always does 4 damage except when it would kill you.Read this post said:
So besides holding back before killing you, he ignores your dura all the way through his fight.
- 2,730
- 831
Oh sry i misread. Im neutral on that argument in that case.
- 26,116
- 3,649
Pretty much, yeah.
- 9,289
- 3,282
Is Papyrus the only monster that does the same damage no matter your defense?
- 26,116
- 3,649
Besides Asriel eating the timeline always reducing you to 1 HP (which is you barely surviving cuz refuse and not him negating stuff).Adem Warlock69 said:
- 26,116
- 3,649
Oh, and Mettaton always halving your HP.
- 2,139
- 209
1 Temmie Armor is a magic shield
Temmie Armor is a magical armor and I have evidence for that:
First, Temmie said that if Frisk wore this armor, every fight would become very easy, and there wouldn't be any challenge, which would seem an odd sentence if it were an ordinary armor.
Secondly, Temmie Armor can heal Frisk, which is clear evidence that it is a magical armor. In no way can a normal armor heal you.
Third, the fact that a magical armor is not something strange in Undertale because in Undeertale we have monsters that are made entirely of magic and they use magic in most matters of life, they have magical food and maybe the snow in Snowdeen may be magical too, we have already seen even armor It works magically in Undertale, It is Undyne's armor which increases her strength as it raises Undyne attack from 41 to 50
2 Armors in the game increases your durability with emotional bonding
I know this sounds strange, but the armor in Undertale is illogical to be protecting you from a physical attack I mean seriously how a cowboy hat or Bandanna might protect you from a physical attack so this seems to increase the durability of the soul with an emotional bonding that makes more sense, I have evidence First, the fact that Heart Locket is the most armor that protects you in the neutral route (after Temmie Armor of course) and this not without reason, but this is due to being a gift from Asgore to the first child on an occasion, something that was very close to the first child, and we can say the same thing about the rest of the armors due to the fact All armors in the game are the tools of humans who fell before Frisk so we can say the armors that raise the defense a lot are the ones that were very close to the humans who fell before Frisk and the Armors that raise the defense a little are those that were not close to the humans who fell before Frisk
Supportive arguments:
The cowboy hat feels Frisk manhood what increase his attack, something that must clearly indicate that feelings have an effect on Frisk's attack and defense.
Temmie Armor is a magical armor and I have evidence for that:
First, Temmie said that if Frisk wore this armor, every fight would become very easy, and there wouldn't be any challenge, which would seem an odd sentence if it were an ordinary armor.
Secondly, Temmie Armor can heal Frisk, which is clear evidence that it is a magical armor. In no way can a normal armor heal you.
Third, the fact that a magical armor is not something strange in Undertale because in Undeertale we have monsters that are made entirely of magic and they use magic in most matters of life, they have magical food and maybe the snow in Snowdeen may be magical too, we have already seen even armor It works magically in Undertale, It is Undyne's armor which increases her strength as it raises Undyne attack from 41 to 50
2 Armors in the game increases your durability with emotional bonding
I know this sounds strange, but the armor in Undertale is illogical to be protecting you from a physical attack I mean seriously how a cowboy hat or Bandanna might protect you from a physical attack so this seems to increase the durability of the soul with an emotional bonding that makes more sense, I have evidence First, the fact that Heart Locket is the most armor that protects you in the neutral route (after Temmie Armor of course) and this not without reason, but this is due to being a gift from Asgore to the first child on an occasion, something that was very close to the first child, and we can say the same thing about the rest of the armors due to the fact All armors in the game are the tools of humans who fell before Frisk so we can say the armors that raise the defense a lot are the ones that were very close to the humans who fell before Frisk and the Armors that raise the defense a little are those that were not close to the humans who fell before Frisk
Supportive arguments:
The cowboy hat feels Frisk manhood what increase his attack, something that must clearly indicate that feelings have an effect on Frisk's attack and defense.
- 14,915
- 12,434
First, Temmie said that if Frisk wore this armor, every fight would become very easy, and there wouldn't be any challenge, which would seem an odd sentence if it were an ordinary armor.
It could be magical and not protect the soul. It could also just be good armor.
Secondly, Temmie Armor can heal Frisk, which is clear evidence that it is a magical armor. In no way can a normal armor heal you.
A mundane stained apron can heal you. So yes, normal armor can heal you in Undertale.
It could be magical and not protect the soul. It could also just be good armor.
Secondly, Temmie Armor can heal Frisk, which is clear evidence that it is a magical armor. In no way can a normal armor heal you.
A mundane stained apron can heal you. So yes, normal armor can heal you in Undertale.
- 14,574
- 5,874
>No armor can heal you
Bandages
- 3,334
- 1,365
@Lord JJJ Why would it be weird that wearing armor makes a fight easier? Armor is supposed to protect you from attacks to lessen the damage, I see nothing different from that with standard armor.
Healing armor? I guess you could argue that it's magic because of that, but I'm still doubtful as this is the same game that lets you heal if you put on a used band-aid.
This sounds more like headcanon, you need actual proof that Temmie's armor is specifically made out of magic. You would think Temmie or even the description state it's magic, but nope. Even certain characters in the game wear armor that looks standard. A lot of games have clothing that increases your defense or boosts your attack despite the fact it's just a common piece of clothing, this is all standard. Undertale is no exception. Frisk feeling manhood while wearing a cowboy hat is likely just her feeling more confident while wearing something like that as they are a child and can often pretend they're a different person by wearing a costume or something else.
Healing armor? I guess you could argue that it's magic because of that, but I'm still doubtful as this is the same game that lets you heal if you put on a used band-aid.
This sounds more like headcanon, you need actual proof that Temmie's armor is specifically made out of magic. You would think Temmie or even the description state it's magic, but nope. Even certain characters in the game wear armor that looks standard. A lot of games have clothing that increases your defense or boosts your attack despite the fact it's just a common piece of clothing, this is all standard. Undertale is no exception. Frisk feeling manhood while wearing a cowboy hat is likely just her feeling more confident while wearing something like that as they are a child and can often pretend they're a different person by wearing a costume or something else.
- 8,927
- 3,439
- Thread starter
- #146
Oh, does this mean we're removing Resistance to Soul Manipulation? Given that it's obviously Durability based, and the justification is that they can take attacks at their soul like a normal attack. Except they kinda are normal attacks.
- 14,915
- 12,434
Probably? We had another thread for removing Soul Manip Resistance (mainly off of fodder) that has kinda died off since this thread started, and I'd be happy to merge those changes.
- 13,314
- 628
That would make sense. If it is based on physicality. That wouldn't be resistance in the soul
- 13,314
- 628
So this is about accepted right?
- 14,915
- 12,434
The page for Durability Negation states that Soul Manipulation negates durability, and that it can only be resisted by the strength of the soul. Does this need to be rewritten?
- 14,574
- 5,874
The page? No, it's just the Undertale's page that need to specify this as it's a clear exception.
- 4
- 0
https://youtu.be/LiCoh0bEwO0?t=824 What about this book from the Librarby talking about how Monster magic works.
- 3,334
- 1,365
That just sounds like Rage Power.
- 8,927
- 3,439
- Thread starter
- #156
I'm going to be making the changes. As it turns out, there are a lot of Undertale pages, so help would be appreciated.
All Soul Manipulation should say, Soul Manipulation (Can injure the soul through damaging the body with their regular attacks).
If I encounter any locked profiles, I'll link them here.
All Soul Manipulation should say, Soul Manipulation (Can injure the soul through damaging the body with their regular attacks).
If I encounter any locked profiles, I'll link them here.
- Underground (Undertale) (Needs Soul Resistance removed)
- Flowey (Needs Soul Manip changed, can keep Resistance)
- Asriel Dreemurr (Needs a typo fixed (should be Amalgamates, not Almalgamates). Needs Soul Manipulation description updated. Should have his Soul Resistance definition slightly changed)
- Sans (Need Soul Manip changed, Resistance removed, and his Durability Negation slightly altered)
- Frisk (Needs Soul Resistance removed)
- 4,042
- 3,737
I have a question, why don't we just assume nearly everything in the underground is just magical? So many diffrent effects are just aqurired by equipment in general in Undertale, so assuming that they're mundane actually makes less sense then assuming that their magic. This would also explain why the stats for the items are all just over the place.
- 4,042
- 3,737
But that's not a raw assumption, Undertale isn't just another RPG where these numbers of meaningless and seprated from the narrative itself. Plus, we also have the fact that all items equpied are associated with a soul and have an effect, bar the first two items which each come directly from the human world when the game starts. So saying that they're aren't magic makes less sense then saying that they are magic.
- 2,730
- 831
Have you finished the downgrades? I wanted to make changes regarding speed.
