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Undertale

Magi_Hussie

Magi_Hussie

1,881
230
Revision request for the Undertale profiles except for Mettaton & Flowey:

For the Human SOULs:

  • It needs to have links to their Powers and Abilities, including Determination (which I mentioned above) as well.
The Keys for Chara~ I suggest the Keys should be:

  • "Genocide Frisk (Before the End of Genocide) | Chara (At the End of Genocide)"
^ I don't really believe they are exactly the same person since Chara is capable of possession for example and we never seen Genocide Frisk actually did the same exact thing before. Also, there has been multiple complaints about them being the same thing.

  • Chara's Regenerationn should of been (Low-Godly to Mid-Godly) since Low-Godly regen is the ability to SAVE and LOAD.
  • ^ Chara's Immortality should also be (Type 3 and 8)
Summarized Revisions of Flowey:

  • Flowey has Immortality (Type 1 and 3) as well.
Summarized Revisions for Frisk's powers & abilities:

Updated Frisk's weakness: If the Human SOULs are used correctly, they can permanently disable Frisk's SAVE mechanic (which is the source of Frisk's Determination), rendering Frisk unable to gain/regain Determination, Time Travel, and self-resurrect at will. Frisk is also very vulnerable without enough Determination or without any of it, and the ability to SAVE & LOAD if Frisk cannot be able to get access to those mechanics.

Summarized Revisions for Mettato:

  • Base Mettaton couldn't be hurt by Frisk and/or Chara's Soul Manipulation which negates durability and allows them to physically hit their targets w/ critical amount of damage (Start at 0:34): https://youtu.be/UND9AIBBCbc
^ Base Mettaton has shown Limited Impact Absorption in his box form since it was implied in his stats, and there's no possible way he could survive Omnipresental attacks from beings such as Chara when she was granted access to the True Reset due to the fact that Limited Impact Absorption CANNOT be able to protect you from multiple attacks at once.

Limited Impact Absorption: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Invulnerability

Remember, Invulnerability =/= Limited Impact Absorption.

Since Base Mettaton (Box form) has 255 DEF, then his durability should be:

  • "At least Multiversal Level (via powerscaling; Mettaton has a defense value of a whopping 255 which vastly exceeds 99 defense of both Chara and Undyne the Undying by at least 2.5x more durable. No matter how strong Frisk is by the time they reach Mettaton, they will be completely unable to harm him.)."
^ Welp, I'm definitely not gonna regret mentioning that.

  • Reminder: It's only his durability not AP.
Mettaton NEO's durability should be:

  • "At least City Block level, likely Multi-City Block level (scaling to Greater Dog)."

Revised Mettaton's weakness:

Mettaton is incredibly vain and can easily be distracted by anything that appeals to it (i.e. a mirror). Mettaton's robotic body cannot sustain/handle multiple blows from his opponents at once, as well as omnipresental attacks. | Short battery life, though Alphys appears to have fixed this by the end of the game; his exploitable weakness is his heart-shaped core which is vulnerable to damage and also damages Mettaton | None notable


The Keys for Mettaton should be:

  • "Base (Box form)/Mettaton | Mettaton EX | Mettaton NEO

Summarized Revisions for Undyne:

  • Undying has 20 DEF in the Pacifist/Neutral Route with her High Determination state which is the same amount of defense as Papyrus and 99 DEF in her full Determination state that we already know it's already equal to Chara. So, Undyne the Undying's durability should be:
  • "Small Town Level (with High Determination) | Likely Multiversal level (with Full Determination)."

Revised Undyne's weaknesses: Monsters like Undyne are all weak against hatred. Like any other fish creature, Undyne is extremely vulnerable to any form of Fire which can easily harm her if she doesn't have her armor. Exposure to heat, fire, heated environments, and any other heat-related things that surrounds Undyne within short periods of time will slow Undyne down, causing her to pass out from dehydration & immobilizing her from continuing to move or fight for any longer. Prone to putting herself before others, even to her own detriment (as seen when she nearly sacrificed her life to save Monster Kid from Genocide Frisk), along with being chivalrous to a fault. Undyne can also get carried away in her passion, such as when she burned her own house down while cooking. | Ditto of the first 4 main weaknesses; if Undyne has no realization at first that she's facing a potential threat to the Underground (e.g. such as Genocide Frisk) before transforming into her Undyning form near death, then this may backfire and negatively weaken her body due to the side effects that was experienced like the failed experimental monsters who were once infused with Determination, making her very vulnerable & becoming dangerously fatal to attacks. Undyne only transforms into her Undyning form for a limited amount of time after enduring a sufficient amount of damage before permanently melting from an overflowing amount of Determination in her body. | Same weaknesses as before, and while Undyne is incredibly powerful, she lacks the powerful hax of many characters at her tier usually possess. Also, Undyne cannot be able use her Undyning form at will unless it's absolutely necessary that she needs to.

Last 3 things to ask~

1. Should Frisk and Undyne have Keys for their High and Full Determination? If yes, then it should be:

  • "Base | High Determination | Full Determination"
2. Should Frisk have Superhuman Physical Characteristics with at least High DT and the exception of Lifting Strength? B/c Lifting Strength doesn't always matter in debates.

3. Btw, shouldn't Chara already should of been mentioned that she can Break the Fourth Wall in her profile by now?


For ALL of the Low to High Tier Undertale monsters, their weaknesses should already been mentioned that they're weak against Hatred. Sorry, I forgot to point that out at the start.
 
I'm no Undertale expert, but here's my two cents on the matter.

1) Not sure about this Chara thing. Would it matter?

2) Isn't this already what his Regenerationn covers? Frisk is just putting his SOUL back together instead of dying and going to the Game Over screen.

3) I doubt it. His defense is simply just higher than Frisk's. In addition, he's completely physical within that body rather than simply being a ghost piloting a mechanical body since he dies when he's completely destroyed by Frisk in the Genocide Route. I don't believe he has his ghost body anymore if I remember correctly. I don't think I actually have a problem with giving Mettaton's base form Multiversal durability, but I'd rather have Azathoth and Saikou on this.

4) Er... she can't just change into her Undying form at will, so that isn't exactly a weakness or something worth noting on her profile. It's a form she obtained with her own DETERMINATION after being fatally wounded by Frisk and gaining the resolve to fight for all of humanity in addition to all monsters in order to save the world.

5) Not sure if adding a Key is worth it either.
 
1. Yes, since there was complaints from some people who disagreed with Genocide Frisk = Chara.

2. Self-Resurrection should be added too since it's a separate power & ability and cus why not? Also, I can easily find 2 profiles which backs up that claim as well.

3. Limited Impact Absorption should be fine for Mettaton and like all Undertale monsters, Mettaton does have a soul in his body. It doesn't really make sense if his robot body has no ghostly presence inside there & I did mention that it's just a possibility. e.e A robot can't have Multiversal durability?

4. Undyne always changes into that form near death to be specific. Also, Undyne in the Pacifist/Neutral Route was off-guard and suffering from the sides effects of Determination.

5. A key would be a good option.
 
Are these the same revisions that you suggested, and that were rejected, previously?

Anyway, I will inform Azathoth about this thread.
 
Antvasima said:
Are these the same revisions that you suggested, and that were rejected, previously?

Anyway, I will inform Azathoth about this thread.
Click to expand...
A thread that isn't leading to a conclusion =/= Rejected Revisions.
 
1. We don't usually link to other wikis for powers, so it'd probably be better to link to our own pages.

2. I'm honestly not sure if Chara in possessing Frisk's body needs a key, since they are basically just regular Frisk but with killing intent. I'm not sure how that would be properly quantified.

3. The resurrection thing seems fine, since Asriel directly states Frisk was indeed being killed, but neither resetting time nor exiting the game world.

4. I'm not sure if Frisk needs a weakness that specific that will only ever apply in universe, but idk.

5. Mettaton has fully bonded with his robot body, and no longer has a ghost form. That's why he can actually die.

6. I don't know if Mettaton is necessarily invulnerable. His defense is just so ungodly high that no non-god tier character in the game could feasibly scratch him.

7. Regarding multiversal base Mettaton, I'm pretty sure I addressed this in another thread. The AT stat is what acts as your "Power level", while the DF stat is more of a defensive buffer. As in, a character with 0 AT is literally incapable of attacking, but Omega Flowey doesn't instantly die when you hit him after his DF drops to 0. Mettaton having several hundred defense just means it should be astronomically above his AP.

8. Mettaton's weaknesses seem fine.

9. Undyne's weaknesses seem fine.
 
1. Azzy, all of them are linked to the vsbattle wiki pages...

2. Before the End of Genocide, it only shown the appearance of Frisk. At the End of Genocide, Genocide Frisk's appearance conpletely changed and it became Chara's actual appearance.

3. Ok then.

4. Some characters have those types of weaknesses before.

5. I will remove the Intangibility part then.

6. Since Chara using True reset is a Omnipresental attack and Asriel can use Danmaku which is also one of the limitations of Limited Impact Absorption being unable to take multiple attacks at once, then Mettaton having "Limited Impact Absorption" should be acceptable.

7. Well yea, Mettaton's durability is above his AP.

8-9. Ok.
 
1. Whoops. Missed that.

2. Yes, I'm aware. The problem is properly tiering possessed Frisk and if it is even necessary in the first place.

4. I know, but I am wondering if it is completely superfluous.

6. I don't have a problem with that. Just as long as the scale is specified.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
1. Whoops. Missed that.

2. Yes, I'm aware. The problem is properly tiering possessed Frisk and if it is even necessary in the first place.

4. I know, but I am wondering if it is completely superfluous.

6. I don't have a problem with that. Just as long as the scale is specified.
Click to expand...
2. It might take some time to find a solution to that.

4. Mk.

6. Ok.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
1. Whoops. Missed that.

2. Yes, I'm aware. The problem is properly tiering possessed Frisk and if it is even necessary in the first place.

4. I know, but I am wondering if it is completely superfluous.

6. I don't have a problem with that. Just as long as the scale is specified.
Click to expand...
It's possible that some certain stats of Genocide Frisk is comparable to Pacifist Frisk. I will work on that for a short while and will reply back when I'm done.
 
Re-edited profile of Chara which was approved by Azzy:

Tier: 10-C physically. Anywhere up to at the very least 7-C when filled with enough Determination. Possibly 2-B before the end of the Genocide Route. | Likely 2-B

Name: Genocide Frisk, Chara, The Fallen Child (Name in-game varies depending on what the player chooses to name them)

Origi: Undertale

Gender: Left ambiguous while alive, now completely inapplicable

Age: Pre-teen at the time of death

Classificatio: Human child, Adopted child of Asgore and Toriel, Asriel's adopted sibling, Abstract force of evil, The First Human, Manifestation of the player's willingness to kill just to increase their own stats

Powers and Abilities: Timeline creation and destruction, Soul Manipulation, Determination, Time Manipulation, Ability to SAVE and LOAD, Resistance to Soul Manipulation, Regenerationn (Low-Godly to Mid-Godly) | Same as before, Possession, Incorporeal, Immortality (Type 3 and 8), Reality Manipulation, Acausality, 4th wall awareness

Attack Potency: Below Average level (That of a small child). Anywhere up to at the very least Town level when filled with enough Determination (Defeated the Undertale monsters in the Genocide Route.). Possibly Multiversal (Presumably became as powerful as the Anomaly when gaining enough Determination & EXP to reach that certain level after defeating Undyne the Undyning, Asgore, and Sans just before the end of the Genocide Route.) | Likely Multiverse level (Destroyed reality/the game itself, which contained countless timelines. While the exact number is unknown, the sheer number of resets performed by characters such as Flowey, along with the fact that a number composed of 216 'nines' is measurable at the end of the genocide route, would easily put the number in the 2-B range. Also recreated the multiverse after the player gives up their soul)

Speed: At least Massively Hypersonic+, likely much higher while being possessed by Chara (Capable of aimdodging lasers fired from Sans' Gasterblasters, as well as Vulkin's lightning. Superior to Napstablook). | Omnipresent after reaching their "absolute" (Exists as an abstract entity whose influence is everywhere in all possible timelines, as well as continuing to exist everywhere in the empty void after reality has been destroyed)

Lifting Strength: Unknow

Striking Strength: At least Class BH normally and anywhere up to at least Class TJ+ when filled with enough Determination (Easily managed to critically one-shot the most powerful high tier Undertale monsters such as Muffet, Toriel, and Asgore individually within a single blow.). Possibly Multiversal (Managed to damage Undyne the Undying who had the defense value of 99.) | Likely Multiversal (Destroyed the game in one blow)

Durability: At least Wall level normally (Fell down Mount Ebott and into the Underground without any noticeable injuries, Moved around the inner area of Hotland, the outer area of which was hot enough to turn a styrofoam cup to vapor, instantly). Anywhere up to at the very least Town level when filled with enough Determination (Survived multiple attacks from Base Undyne). Possibly Multiversal (Took numerous hits from Undyne the Undyning who had the stats of 99/99 which also considered her as powerful as Chara via powerscaling and survived Sans Karmic Retribution.) | Likely Multiverse level (Completely unaffected by their own destruction of the game, Exists as an abstract concept that will be brought back as long as someone with enough Determination exists), likely much higher (Ability to SAVE and LOAD makes them extremely difficult to destroy even in physical form. In their true form, Chara exists as an abstract concept capable of manifesting no matter what as long as someone experiences the drive, will, and feelings they embody, thus making them nearly impossible to actually destroy or get rid of)

Stamina: Immense (Able to navigate Hotland, where even the outskirts were hot enough to turn a styrofoam cup into vapor instantly, without tiring) | Infinite

Range: Standard melee range in regular combat while being possessed by Chara. | Multiversal in their true form.

Intelligence: Very high (Should be somewhat comparable to Pacifist Frisk) | Presumably incredibly high

Standard Equipment: Real Knife, The Locket

Weaknesses: None notable | Chara needed someone with strong enough determination and capacity for violence in order to manifest, and needed to possess a host to interact with the universe before they had reached a sufficiently great level of power.

Keys: Genocide Frisk (Before the End of Genocide) | Chara (At the End of Genocide)
 
I cannot evaluate this, and your constant demands for changes in the Undertale profiles are likely turning into a major bother for Azathoth.
 
Antvasima said:
I cannot evaluate this, and your constant demands for changes in the Undertale profiles are likely turning into a major bother for Azathoth.
Click to expand...
I was patiently waiting for almost a day.
 
Well, the Undertale ratings have already been thoroughly discussed to exhaustion, so I would appreciate if you stop creating constant revision threads.
 
I may add the revisions to their profiles then since I read Azzy's replys correctly that they were accepted & I won't make any more of Undertale revision threads after I'm done, ok?
 
It is probably best if you ask him for specific confirmations here regarding what is and is not accepted first.

In addition, I am not certain if you are experienced enough to handle the revisions properly.
 
Antvasima said:
It is probably best if you ask him for specific confirmations here regarding what is and is not accepted first.

In addition, I am not certain if you are experienced enough to handle the revisions properly.
Click to expand...
I did revisions a couple of times actually, it's not really hard. I just shown you a proper profile page of Chara. Also, Azzy doesn't have to do these revisions since it seems it might be a lot to memorize & he is usually busy.
 
It is harder to do them well, without messing anything up.

Anyway, Azathoth should should preferably reply first.
 
You can ask him for a final response via his message wall if you wish, but then you must drop all Undertale issues entirely.
 
Mettatons dura isnt Multiversal.

You cannot scale DEF like AT because they dont work the same way.
 
PaChi2 said:
Mettatons dura isnt Multiversal.

You cannot scale DEF like AT because they dont work the same way.
Click to expand...
Yes it does, if Mettaton has a defenae value of over 255, then it's clear that it's in the Multiversal range like every other UT characters are scaled. It shouldn't really matter.
 
Omega Flowey's def drops to 0. Then he must have wall level dura right?
 
7. Regarding multiversal base Mettaton, I'm pretty sure I addressed this in another thread. The AT stat is what acts as your "Power level", while the DF stat is more of a defensive buffer. As in, a character with 0 AT is literally incapable of attacking, but Omega Flowey doesn't instantly die when you hit him after his DF drops to 0. Mettaton having several hundred defense just means it should be astronomically above his AP.

Its not meant to be scaled like AT.
 
According to both of their stats:

Photoshop/God Flowey is said to have 6000 hp while Mettaton (Box form) literally has 9999 hp and 255 defense, your point?

Keep in not that this is only durability not AP, basically you're disagreeing for nothing. It's Mettaton with only Multiversal durability not Multiversal Mettaton. So, there should be no reason to continue this disagreement.
 
If Azathoth does not reply, there does not seem to be much point in keeping this thread open.
 
@Azathoth Are you finished with reviewing my re-edited version of Chara's profile in the comment section?
 
Hm.

I mean, it's not technically wrong, but as I said before it's probably not nevessary. One would likely just use regular Frisk's profile.
 
I guess that wraps up everything now since all of the revisions were accepted and thx for telling me.
 
Ok, I'm ready to edit the following revisions for the Undertale profiles now if someone may temporary unlock them for me: (Chara, Frisk, Human SOULs, Undyne, Flowey, and Mettaton) and Alphys & Amalgamates for their missing links of Determination.

There's also one last thing I forgotten but I will mention it later.
 
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