Undyne the Undying vs Sans

[Numbersguy]

I wonder who would win between the badass fish girl and the skeleton with bad puns?

Undyne

Sans

Both are bloodlusted

They fight on a neutral universe


Undyne is filled with determination

Sans is in "kids like you, should be burning in hell" mode

Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcgIYVfybLg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1BvKt4pRWmE

 

[Pikachu942]

Well Undyne is certainly slower than Sans and with less hax, but she is more powerful and I dunno if her merciless resentment of humans when in Undying form (on this route she doesn't come to like the player as they went Genocide) is enough for Sans' hax to work effectively on her. Overall I'm leaning on Sans but it could go either way.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well Undyne is certainly slower than Sans and with less hax, but she is more powerful and I dunno if her merciless resentment of humans when in Undying form (on this route she doesn't come to like the player as they went Genocide) is enough for Sans' hax to work effectively on her. Overall I'm leaning on Sans but it could go either way.

Undyne no longer hates humans in Undying mode. She was fighting to save literally everyone on Earth, both monster and human.

 

[Pikachu942]

Ah yes that is true, plus she is said to be the "true hero". I do not think Sans' hax will work on her, and his dodging and chipping away will only work for so long as he will tire out first just based on how each acted. Now I am definitely saying Undyne would win mid-high difficulty.

 

[MagnusXL]

As much as I don't normally like going off of raw game statistics, Sans' damage on KR is directly based on the pain and suffering caused by the target (in game measured by kill count). Outside of this Sans' attack, while ignoring invulnerability frames, deal one damage.

Undyne the Undying has around 24,000 HP, which is almost 2 1/2 times the amount of health that Omega Flowey has.

Undyne may give people a hard time, but she is overall benevolent (towards monsters). There isn't much room for her to -cause- pain and suffering while trapped in the underground.

That said, it is unclear how long she can maintain that form. High levels of determination causes monsters to melt away and deteriorate, as seen in the true lab with the amalgamates and in her death speech. It would come down to whether she could tire Sans out before she disintegrated.

I actually think that regular non-genocide route Undyne might actually have an easier time at this. She 'only' has roughly 1,500 hitpoints, but she doens't have to worry about melting due to determination before she could even land a blow on Sans. As an added benefit, it is shown during a neutral route kill that she is still able to persist beyond death for a short time due to determination (in game 5 rounds, it doesn't matter how much damage the player's attacks deal).

https://youtu.be/tpR_mvYUI8U?t=5m38s

I would have to give this one to Undyne due to power incompatibility with Karmic Retribution. Sans would put up a good fight, but he wouldn't have the damage in this match-up.

 

[Talonmask]

Chara technically only killed Sans due to game-breaking, which Undyne cannot do.

Sans would just have to chip at her long enough or dodge until she melted.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

why we are asuming that Sans isn't going to tire out first? After all he is the one that show signs of low stamina. Mid-fight he was really tired.

 

[Talonmask]

Because even if he tires out he'll still be able to dodge and possibly lock Undyne in place? Chara needed to game break in order to actually land a hit, there's nothing stopping him from dodging in his sleep.

Not to mention, Sans barely took a minute nap and looked perfectly fine afterwards.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Because even if he tires out he'll still be able to dodge and possibly lock Undyne in place? Chara needed to game break in order to actually land a hit, there's nothing stopping him from dodging in his sleep.
Not to mention, Sans barely took a minute nap and looked perfectly fine afterwards.

What do you mean with lock Undyne in place? Blue mode? Because i remember you that Undyne also can lock Sans in place. And i don't think he is better with the spear.

Chara just took advantage of Sans cockyness. He actually didn't expect Chara to attack him (In Chara's turn. Which is worse) and even them. Sans didn't look "perfectly fine" damn. The game itself tells you mid-fight that Sans is getting really tired. His expression looks tired. And Undyne isn't gonna let him take a minute to sleep.

 

[MagnusXL]

The number of spears Undyne can toss around is fairly insane and the intensity amps up as her frustration builds, especially over a long fight. A fight with Sans would not be a short affair. She has a fairly significant chance of tiring him out before he (veeeeeery slowly) chips away at her durability.

In fact, the difference in their endurance is fairly clear cut. After a few minutes of dodging spears on the world map, she starts throwing spears extremely rapidly-- without ever slowing down. Undyne can relentlessly chase down the opponent in full plate while suplexing bolders and throwing spears and is only stopped upon entering Hotland because of heat exhaustion.

 

[Talonmask]

Because even if he tires out he'll still be able to dodge and possibly lock Undyne in place? Chara needed to game break in order to actually land a hit, there's nothing stopping him from dodging in his sleep.
Not to mention, Sans barely took a minute nap and looked perfectly fine afterwards.

What do you mean with lock Undyne in place? Blue mode? Because i remember you that Undyne also can lock Sans in place. And i don't think he is better with the spear.
Chara just took advantage of Sans cockyness. He actually didn't expect Chara to attack him (In Chara's turn. Which is worse) and even them. Sans didn't look "perfectly fine" damn. The game itself tells you mid-fight that Sans is getting really tired. His expression looks tired. And Undyne isn't gonna let him take a minute to sleep.

When Sans goes for his nap he does not allow Chara to take their turn, leaving it forever on his turn.

Chara game broke and attacked Sans twice, which is not a mechanic in the game that was allowed with the knife, which is what caught Sans off-gaurd, he dodged the first attack perfectly fine.

I said he looked fine right after he napped, which wasn't a long time, read over my comment again.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Sans fights a stronger (and possibly faster) version of Chara. Not only that but he has hax and doging plus range at his disposal. Undying's only advantage is Dura, even then, it won't matter much probably.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Undying's only advantage is Dura

Green Mode >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue Mode in this case, though.

 

[Talonmask]

Undying's only advantage is Dura

Green Mode >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blue Mode in this case, though.

Both modes eventually fade, and I believe green mode requires that you get hit by her spear (not 100% on this though.) whereas blue mode is instantaneous and doesn't require you to be struck to activate.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah Undyne can only green mode if she hits her opponent. And everyone knows the deal with hitting Sans.

 

[Alice_Liddel_in_WikiLand]

Green mode doesn't need to "hit" Undyne only needs to wave her spear.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Yeah but she needs to get up close Frisk to do it. The thing about her not needing to hit is mostly game mechanics from Toby being too lazy to edit her animation when the Bullet Board is big.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

@Saikou and Talon

I don't believe that's the case, as it seems Undyne just swings her spear and it activates. Your SOUL just happens to be in the line of fire. After all, Undyne isn't one to sucker punch her opponents, and I certainly don't see Chara of all people just sitting there and letting Undyne smack them in the face with a spear. It does seem she needs to be within a certain proximity, as shown by her chasing Frisk, but I don't believe direct contact is necessary.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well still, Sans certainly knows Undyne's tricks wheras Undyne probably doesn't knows Sans'.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well still, Sans certainly knows Undyne's tricks wheras Undyne probably doesn't knows Sans'.

I don't know if Sans even knows Undyne the Undying is a thing, unless this is somehow post Genocide in which he was presumably trailing Chara/Frisk.

 

[Talonmask]

@Saikou and Talon
I don't believe that's the case, as it seems Undyne just swings her spear and it activates. Your SOUL just happens to be in the line of fire. After all, Undyne isn't one to sucker punch her opponents, and I certainly don't see Chara of all people just sitting there and letting Undyne smack them in the face with a spear. It does seem she needs to be within a certain proximity, as shown by her chasing Frisk, but I don't believe direct contact is necessary.

Not to mention, I don't think Undyne will get the chance to when she's being teleported, tossed around, stuck with hundreds of bones that will deal consecutive damage until they completely pass through, and shot at with lasers.

The only time I see it possible for her to strike him with Green Mode is when he's sleeping, and even then, he could still dodge the swipe/wave.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well I mean, Undying is literally Undyne but stronger, Sans would probably knows that Undyne can Green Attack.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The only time I see it possible for her to strike him with Green Mode is when he's sleeping, and even then, he could still dodge the swipe/wave.

That is assuming he needs to actually be "hit" by something and not just in close enough proximity. I think it's important to remember that not only is UtU going to be able to take literally like a thousand times more damage than Chara, but she also won't suffer from KR. Not to mention base Undyne is already faster than Frisk, and UtU is likely much faster than that, so I don't know if she's as much slower than Sans as people are assuming.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well I mean, Undying is literally Undyne but stronger, Sans would probably knows that Undyne can Green Attack.

"Stronger" is a MASSIVE understatement, though.

 

[Saikou_The_Lewd_King]

Well important thing to note is that we are talking Level 10 Chara vs Level 19 Chara. There is likely a big difference in speed and power between the two. That's my main reasons for giving it to Sans.

 

[Talonmask]

The only time I see it possible for her to strike him with Green Mode is when he's sleeping, and even then, he could still dodge the swipe/wave.

That is assuming he needs to actually be "hit" by something and not just in close enough proximity. I think it's important to remember that not only is UtU going to be able to take literally like a thousand times more damage than Chara, but she also won't suffer from KR. Not to mention base Undyne is already faster than Frisk, and UtU is likely much faster than that, so I don't know if she's as much slower than Sans as people are assuming.

Hence why I said wave, considering the fact that it looks like a wave of energy she briefly emits from her spear when she tries to place you in Green Mode.

I have taken into account that Undyne will not suffer from KR, but she will still be hit by the consecutive damage from each bone, considering the bone only stops damaging you when it passes through, which means one bone can do more than just one damage.

Plus, Sans isn't able to even kill with KR, it's only poison damage that depletes to one, indicating that a lot of the work done on Chara isn't just from the KR.

I can see what you are getting on terms of speed, but Sans has his instantaneous teleportation, so Undyne is likely going to trap him in a barrage of spears like she did Chara/Frisk.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Well important thing to note is that we are talking Level 10 Chara vs Level 19 Chara. There is likely a big difference in speed and power between the two. That's my main reasons for giving it to Sans.

Yes, but only one combatant here has the stats of Level 20 Chara.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I have taken into account that Undyne will not suffer from KR, but she will still be hit by the consecutive damage from each bone, considering the bone only stops damaging you when it passes through, which means one bone can do more than just one damage.

Plus, Sans isn't able to even kill with KR, it's only poison damage that depletes to one, indicating that a lot of the work done on Chara isn't just from the KR.

The difference in this fight is Sans isn't fighting someone with 99 HP who takes massive damage from KR. He's fighting someone with thousands upon thousands of HP who takes no damage from KR whatsoever.

 

[Talonmask]

Well important thing to note is that we are talking Level 10 Chara vs Level 19 Chara. There is likely a big difference in speed and power between the two. That's my main reasons for giving it to Sans.

Yes, but only one combatant here has the stats of Level 20 Chara.

Whom was beaten by a significantly weaker Chara, neither one fought Chara at their absolute prime, the only major difference between the two is that only one can take a blow from Chara.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Whom was beaten by a significantly weaker Chara, neither one fought Chara at their absolute prime, the only major difference between the two is that only one can take a blow from Chara.

Yes, because only Chara could reset every time they lose and learn from their mistakes. UtU has the exact same stats as peak Chara, and likely would have absolutely bodied them could they not just LOAD.

 

[Talonmask]

I have taken into account that Undyne will not suffer from KR, but she will still be hit by the consecutive damage from each bone, considering the bone only stops damaging you when it passes through, which means one bone can do more than just one damage.

Plus, Sans isn't able to even kill with KR, it's only poison damage that depletes to one, indicating that a lot of the work done on Chara isn't just from the KR.

The difference in this fight is Sans isn't fighting someone with 99 HP who takes massive damage from KR. He's fighting someone with thousands upon thousands of HP who takes no damage from KR whatsoever.

Just the same can be said about Undyne, she's not fighting someone who has to physically dodge all of her attacks and attack her close up, she's battling someone who can easily disorient her and can dodge all of her attacks with minimal effort whilst not having to get close.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Just the same can be said about Undyne, she's not fighting someone who has to physically dodge all of her attacks and attack her close up, she's battling someone who can easily disorient her and can dodge all of her attacks with minimal effort whilst not having to get close.

Yes, but as I said before, the amount of hits Sans actually has to get in on Undyne while NEVER getting hit or stuck in green mode is absolutely monstrous compared to what he had to do to Chara.

 

[Talonmask]

Whom was beaten by a significantly weaker Chara, neither one fought Chara at their absolute prime, the only major difference between the two is that only one can take a blow from Chara.

Yes, because only Chara could reset every time they lose and learn from their mistakes. UtU has the exact same stats as peak Chara, and likely would have absolutely bodied them could they not just LOAD.

The same can be applied to Sans, Chara had to go through the same amount of effort for both characters, and unlike Chara, neither character in this battle has more than one chance.

Sans possibly knows how Undyne fights, and can assume she'll fight the same way she does in her normal form as well as in her more determined form. Undyne doesn't know any of Sans's moves because Sans never fights.

 

[Talonmask]

Just the same can be said about Undyne, she's not fighting someone who has to physically dodge all of her attacks and attack her close up, she's battling someone who can easily disorient her and can dodge all of her attacks with minimal effort whilst not having to get close.

Yes, but as I said before, the amount of hits Sans actually has to get in on Undyne while NEVER getting hit or stuck in green mode is absolutely monstrous compared to what he had to do to Chara.

Of course, but Sans has the range advantage compared to Chara, Undyne needs to actually keep up with him to land a blow, which was a task Chara could not manage without gamebreaking.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

The same can be applied to Sans, Chara had to go through the same amount of effort for both characters, and unlike Chara, neither character in this battle has more than one chance.

Sans possibly knows how Undyne fights, and can assume she'll fight the same way she does in her normal form as well as in her more determined form. Undyne doesn't know any of Sans's moves because Sans never fights.

Again, I think you're ignoring the massive difference in hits, here.

Assuming Undyne knows nothing about Sans' moves isn't the only option, as she quite possibly does know a thing or two about him. She is best friends with his brother, and Papyrus, while naive, does know a few things about Sans.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Of course, but Sans has the range advantage compared to Chara, Undyne needs to actually keep up with him to land a blow, which was a task Chara could not manage without gamebreaking.

So does Undyne. She's not strictly a close range fighter. And as I've already said, Undyne is also faster than Chara, meaning Sans is still going to get tired just as fast, if not faster, and as I've already stated, Sans needs a LOT more hits to take Undyne down.

 

[Talonmask]

The same can be applied to Sans, Chara had to go through the same amount of effort for both characters, and unlike Chara, neither character in this battle has more than one chance.

Sans possibly knows how Undyne fights, and can assume she'll fight the same way she does in her normal form as well as in her more determined form. Undyne doesn't know any of Sans's moves because Sans never fights.

Again, I think you're ignoring the massive difference in hits, here.
Assuming Undyne knows nothing about Sans' moves isn't the only option, as she quite possibly does know a thing or two about him. She is best friends with his brother, and Papyrus, while naive, does know a few things about Sans.

I am not ignoring the difference in hits here, I've already acknowledged the amount of chip Sans needs to put Undyne down.

But while Undyne is strong, she's not invincible and is quite irritable, as seen in her battle with Frisk when they keep blocking her attacks.

While it is quite a stretch, her anger could get the better of her and she could possibly get less determined if she realizes it's pointless.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

I am not ignoring the difference in hits here, I've already acknowledged the amount of chip Sans needs to put Undyne down.

But while Undyne is strong, she's not invincible and is quite irritable, as seen in her battle with Frisk when they keep blocking her attacks.

While it is quite a stretch, her anger could get the better of her and she could possibly get less determined if she realizes it's pointless.

That's normal Undyne. UtU shows no signs of anger during the fight with Chara, no matter how much they wail on her. Even when she dies, she's pretty calm.

 

[Talonmask]

Of course, but Sans has the range advantage compared to Chara, Undyne needs to actually keep up with him to land a blow, which was a task Chara could not manage without gamebreaking.

So does Undyne. She's not strictly a close range fighter. And as I've already said, Undyne is also faster than Chara, meaning Sans is still going to get tired just as fast, if not faster, and as I've already stated, Sans needs a LOT more hits to take Undyne down.

Yes, but as I have previously stated, Chara had to physically dodge every single one of Undyne's attacks, Sans has the ability to teleport his foe and himself, which means Undyne cannot corner him in with any attack.

And what if Sans does get tired? He can dodge in his sleep, and was evidently a lot less tired when he woke up, a time span of maybe 25 seconds.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Yes, but as I have previously stated, Chara had to physically dodge every single one of Undyne's attacks, Sans has the ability to teleport his foe and himself, which means Undyne cannot corner him in with any attack.

And what if Sans does get tired? He can dodge in his sleep, and was evidently a lot less tired when he woke up, a time span of maybe 25 seconds.

That's where Green Mode comes in, which will prevent Sans from teleporting, since his soul is frozen and not just his body.

Again, Green Mode.