Undyne vs Captain America

[Read_this_post]

Undyne the undying is being used

Both are in character

Speed is equal

Undyne: 1

Captain America: 2

Inconclusive:


Watch your language


Im going to freaking kill you

 

[Kiryu2012]

Right now I'm siding with Cap for his shield and his greater combat experience and skill.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

I guess either Cap gets his soul destroyed or Undyne gets hit by the 8-C shield.

 

[Schnee_One]

How skilled is Undyne?

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

It's on the page, "Incredibly combat savvy, though she can be a tad bit naive".

 

[Abstractions]

I'm inclined to favor Undyne for her determination being able to keep herself together, and Captain America having to sacrifice his only defense to actually do something to her.

Reminder that Undyne's transformation did allow her to regenerate from being cut in half, alongside her just being able to hold herself together from blows that kill.

 

[Paulo.junior.969]

Oh yeah, Undyne has that Regen and the profile still doesn't say what level of Regen she has because Undertale profiles were a mistake.

 

[Abstractions]

A thread seemed to come to an agreement on her Regenerationn and how it should be clarified, it just wasn't added or concluded.

EDIT: I'd also note that nothing is really pushing it into Steve's favor as he is in-character, so killing intentions won't impact Undyne here as he isn't the type to express malice in the fashion Chara does.

 

[Read_this_post]

Note that undyne needs to make it past caps shield to soulhax. And hit to the shield will instantly neg her attack and therefore wont do soul damage. On the other hand cap needs to land 1 (maybe a few) hits with his shield. But any raw ap attacks like kicks will do very low damage considering the massive physical ap advantage undyne has (she is practically bordering on small building+).

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Wait, wasn't it agreed that UT Soul Hax bypass defenses or something? So shouldn't his shield not really help him here?

 

[Read_this_post]

Depends on the defences. UT characters normal attacks damage the opponent and the soul when they are hit. But if they dont land a direct hit on their opponent then their soul hax are not going to work (with exceptions like flowey since he absorbed the whole underground). Even frisk was able to completely block undynes arrows (which also damage the soul) with his shield. If that can block undynes attacks then i doubt undyne is going hurt cap by hitting his mountain level+ sheild. As long as undyne damages cap, she can soul hax him.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

0_o Someone's got some 'splaining to do. Cause in an old Steven vs. Sans thread, it was decided that Sans's attacks would just bypass his shields, so the thread had to be shut down because if speed was = then Sans stomps because Steven wouldn't be able to block his attacks and if speed wasn't = then Steven would blitz him into high hell so there was no fair way to determine a winner...

 

[Read_this_post]

Sans danmaku could knock his shield out his hand and blast him from all directions with his blasters. That is probably why.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

No, literally the reason was that his attacks would just go through his shields. Also, that wouldn't work cause Steven has taken hits on his shield from people way stronger than him, and has never been disarmed before.

Also, his shields are omni-directional so :/

 

[Andytrenom]

Sans attacks were determined to be intangible. The same doesn't hold true for all UT characters.

 

[Read_this_post]

I think it is because his profile lists him (and not the other monsters) as having intangible attacks.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Yea, that was it. It basically made it so the match is undeterminable by our standards. Cause if speed = Sans stomps. And if speed's not = Steven stomps.

 

[Read_this_post]

The matchup was removed anyway. Lets not derail.

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Yea I'm honestly still unsure who to vote for rn.

 

[GyroNutz]

Undyne's spears negate durability via soul manip, so they won't bypass Cap's shield.

That being said, I doubt Cap can harm Undyne with anything but his shield, and even then he'd need a direct hit to down her in one cause determination. I think it's more likely that Undyne hits first via omnidirectional soul manipping danmaku. The paralysis definitely doesn't help Cap either.

 

[Schnee_One]

Not sure if this is fair if Cap can only harm her with one attack

Baymax (Big Hero 6) is probably better

 

[GyroNutz]

Base Undyne could also work? She doesn't lead with Danmaku and can be harmed by all of Cap's attacks.

 

[Abstractions]

Steve can harm her, it's just Green Mode prevents any other method besides sacrificing his defensive tool if she decides to attack with range.

It wouldn't matter if she was base or not.

 

[GyroNutz]

Steve can't harm undying without using the shield.

 

[Abstractions]

Steve can't harm undying without using the shield.

Yes he can, he's listed at 5.9 Kg/TNT, Undyne's durability is listed at >>21.7kg/TNT in her Undying form, making her only at least 3.6x stronger without assumptions.

She's well within harm, it's just hitting her in Green Mode being the issue.

You can put her in base, but it really won't make much difference, as she still has Type 2 either way.

 

[GyroNutz]

When the scaling chain is as large as it is between Undyne the Undying and minimally determined pacifist Frisk, it's not really an assumption that she can no-sell hits from someone even weaker than said feat.

 

[Abstractions]

We really don't have much to go off of besides Undyne the Undying > Mettaton NEO > Asgore/Toriel >> 21.7kg, and since we actually don't know how many times stronger Asgore really is or how much the Genocide bosses are compared to them, it's hard to justify the difference being incredibly large.

Which doesn't even matter in the end, because either way he still has a method of killing her, he just has to throw what's protecting him at her in hopes it does, base or not.

 

[Andytrenom]

Wasn't it the 8kg end that was accepted?

 

[Read_this_post]

Min determination frisk = at least two times baseline

Undying >>> asgore >>>(one shot)>>> froggit level monsters > min determination frisk

Undying could easily be argued building level but the feat she scaled from is so low into the tier. But undying the undying at minimum should be 20 times baseline

 

[CinnabarManx421]

Well if that was true then that'd mean it'd be Undyne's 0.1 Tons of TNT to Cap's 0.01 Tons of TNT

 

[GyroNutz]

Also remember that a far weaker Genocide!Frisk one-shot Toriel, whereas Undyne the Undying is >= Level 11 Frisk

 

[Andytrenom]

I really don't know if 20x is reasonable at all. You don't even get a solid multiplier from scaling chains normally, just a guesstimate of if they are weaker, comparable or a bit superior to the opponent.

 

[Abstractions]

Wasn't it the 8kg end that was accepted?

Looking at it again, yes.

"Min determination frisk = at least two times baseline"

I don't understand this scaling to min. DT Frisk, there's absolutely no reason to do so when the feat itself was performed by both them and Undyne, and not a weaker monster, meaning the scaling between >8kg and <8kg starts there. It doesn't magically make her higher than the results she performed.

"Also remember that a far weaker Genocide!Frisk one-shot Toriel, whereas Undyne the Undying is >= Level 11 Frisk"

They are weaker to murderous intentions, so that's hard to actually gauge, again, she's the only one to actually take a hit.

 

[Read_this_post]

Min determination frisk tanked an oven exploding at nearly two times baseline and took absolutely no damage at all

Frisk would have had even more murderous intentions when he faced undyne than when he faced toriel. So that argument upgrades undyne if anything. Although she is still vastly above him. Plus asgore demonstrated a massive gap between him and undyne as a kid (and keep in mind that monster kid has zero combat experience and is slightly above a minimally determined frisk). Although tbf im not sure if asgore has a full one shot gap from a weak frisk since he was mostly just avoiding undynes attacks and didnt fight back.

I understand not using scaling chains when one person is simply superior to another and that is it. But when a clear one shotting ap gap is given, there is no reason to disregard it. What I am giving is a lowballed estimate.

Either way, if cap has 0.01 tonnes of tnt then he definitely needs to land a shield bash without getting hit regardless. For the baymax thing. It would be one sided since undyne can one shot whilst baymax cant. Here both have ways of one shotting the other.

So which is more likely guys? Undyne one shotting via soul hax? Or cap landing a hit or two with his shield?

 

[Read_this_post]

bump

 

[Modernmyrmidon]

Wait so what's the scenario? Because if Undyne is in character but using undying something big must of had to go down which could possibly determine the outcome

 

[Read_this_post]

In this scenario undyne is just able to turn into undyne the undying. Or probably cap one shotting her base and then having her transform thinking he has creul intentions or something.

Basically undyne is about as strong as she was in genocide. Cap is in character. Undyne is likely fighting cap with similar intentions to how she was fighting frisk.

 

[Modernmyrmidon]

In this scenario undyne is just able to turn into undyne the undying. Or probably cap one shotting her base and then having her transform thinking he has creul intentions or something.

My logic is that Frisk's determination is fueled by the will to hurt people. And so my interpretation is that Undyne can become stronger if she is, for example, protecting her friends. And so the reason I asked for the scenario is that the outcome might be depend on the circumstances. For example, if CA just showed up in the underground one day and Undyne thought he was gonna start trouble, even if she can be UTU, she might be stronger if CA was attacking Papyrus or something like that.

 

[Read_this_post]

I dont think that affects her undying state. Undyne the undying is basically her max potential due to it being her maximum level of determination.

 

[Modernmyrmidon]

I dont think that affects her undying state. Undyne the undying is basically her max potential due to it being her maximum level of determination.

Really? That makes sense I guess cuz undyne is a monster and so she has limits. Is that why?