Upscaling

[Damage3245]

Prompted by a recent revision thread for Naruto and a recent thread for upscaling characters to have the + mark on their ratings, I've come to realize that we don't actually have any defined rules anywhere for upscaling characters.

This is kind of important because without rules we just have arbitrary decisions on how close a character needs to be to the next tier before they're allowed to jump up to baseline.

If a character knocks out someone who has 0.15 Tons of durability do we boost them up to Building level?

If a character one-hit kills someone who has 700 Tons of durability do we boost them up to Small Town level?

As far as I'm aware there is no information anywhere about when it is appropriate to upscale, and how much characters can be upscaled by. If upscaling is going to be widely used on the wiki, then there needs to be some defined rules for it so that we don't have big arguments about when it is appropriate.

I'm aware that this thread might not be completed or get a satisfactory answer before the forum move, but I wanted to at least raise the topic now.

 

[Ogbunabali]

We just had a thread for this, no?

 

[Damage3245]

@Ogbunabali; that thread as far as I can tell is just about allowing characters to upscale to the halfway point of a tier if they're close enough.

This thread is about defining the actual rules on upscaling and when it should be allowed.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Well what exactly more than this do you think is required?

A "+" can be added if there is a direct calculation or if there exists one extremely close to the arithmetic mean, and characters scale above the calculated feat by a wide margin, for example being able to defeat enemies on such levels with a single casual attack.

 

[Damage3245]

@Ogbunabali; defining how big the margin should be. I doubt one-shotting someone who is baseline Building level would be enough to upscale someone to Large Building level; but how far does a character need to be into the tier being one-shotting them boosts you to the next tier.

 

[Ogbunabali]

Well that was decided in the previous thread, to be a case by case basis then, and it's mentioned in the rule too. If the character is extremely close to the higher tier/+ sign, and they get one shotted they get that tier or +.

 

[AKM sama]

When the calc is extremely close to the arithmetic mea and the character is casually able to one shot them. Just like how we do for tier upscales, this is the same thing.

 

[Schnee_One]

This...Is very unnecessary.

Honestly the current rules for what we mentioned are easy to follow overall, I don't see any issue as is

 

[Damage3245]

@AKM sama; how close is "extremely close" though?

For example, in the Naruto thread there is a character who has a durability of at least 3.42 Kilotons. The next tier starts at 5.8 Kilotons. Is one-shotting that character enough to justify the upscaling? Some users are arguing that it is.

For reference the mid-point of that tier is 3.4 Kilotons.

@Ogbunabali; how can something like this by case by case exactly? If a characters one-shots someone who is 40 Tons shy of the next tier for example, and that is accepted, then wouldn't it be accepted for every character who one-shots someone by a similar margin that they can upscale too?

 

[Schnee_One]

Less then 2x.

" If a characters one-shots someone who is 40 Tons shy of the next tier for example, and that is accepted, then wouldn't it be accepted for every character who one-shots someone by a similar margin that they can upscale too?"

It should

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well if we're arguing this from a numerical point of view, wouldnt one shotting basically be the equivalant to 2x stronger than the person you one shotted?

 

[Schnee_One]

I would argue less really, but yes

 

[Damage3245]

@Schee One; in which case, this isn't a case-by-case topic but something that needs to be defined somewhere on our pages.

 

[Ogbunabali]

That's not what I mean by case by case. Not every calc is the same number, and not every tier difference is the same.

 

[M3X_2.0]

@AKM sama; how close is "extremely close" though?
For example, in the Naruto thread there is a character who has a durability of at least 3.42 Kilotons. The next tier starts at 5.8 Kilotons. Is one-shotting that character enough to justify the upscaling? Some users are arguing that it is.

Yes it is. Very unnecessary, considering that Sasuke was able to make KN0 bleed and knock him out with casual blows. He didn't one shot and casually stomped a 3.42 Kilotons character, he did this with a stronger version of this character.

Base Sasuke (Retrieval Arc) > KN0 (Retrieval Arc) > KN0 (Chunnin Exams) > KN0 Chunnin Exams Preliminary = 3.42 Kilotons

Easy to upscale to baseline 7-C with this scaling chain, considering we had a oneshot

 

[AKM sama]

@Damage That example has a difference even greater than 1.5x. Even in the previous thread 1.5x difference was suggested but it was also said to be high for a normal one-shot in many cases. Unless that one shotting character was super casual or portrayed as a god tier in front of the character being one-shot, I'd say it isn't enough. Extremely close to 5.8 would be something above 4 imo.

 

[Damage3245]

@AKM sama; the fact that none of this is noted anywhere is the issue that I'm raising anywhere because there's nothing to refer to and say who is more right in the argument on that thread.

If we noted on a page that the difference has to be lower than 1.5x (or some other valid figure), then the issue would be solved.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

@AKM sama

It was extremely casual, and it was done against a version of Naruto that was even stronger than when he performed the 3.42 Kilotons feat.

 

[Damage3245]

@UchihaSlayer96; "even stronger" doesn't mean a lot without a numeric value attached to it.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

It is important when you're establishing a scaling chain imo.

 

[M3X_2.0]

It doesn't matter if we don't have a value, all versions after this KN0 are superior to 3.42 Kilotons, not below, not the same value, superior. Sasuke did one shot a character stronger than 3.42 Kilotons, casually. What is hard to understand?

 

[AKM sama]

@Damage Well, it was decided that a numeric gap can be exploited in several cases and it's best to do it in a case by case basis by applying common sense just how we treat tier jumps. Otherwise, we'll have to place a hard limit to the tier jumps too, and I feel that can be exploited to upgrade several characters.

We don't usually jump tiers anyway, we just tend to go with an "at least" or "higher" rating. And this isn't supposed to be common practice either. It was only suggested for very obvious cases like being 1.03x away from the mean or being 9.7 units when you need 10 units for a +, and such obvious cases.

 

[LordTracer]

@Damage That example has a difference even greater than 1.5x. Even in the previous thread 1.5x difference was suggested but it was also said to be high for a normal one-shot in many cases. Unless that one shotting character was super casual or portrayed as a god tier in front of the character being one-shot, I'd say it isn't enough. Extremely close to 5.8 would be something above 4 imo.

Yes, Sasuke was very casual both times when he one-shot Naruto, who already scales above the 3.42 kilotons feat.

 

[Damage3245]

@AKM sama; see, I'm a big support of using "at least" and "higher" ratings which is why I don't think that upscaling is necessary on that Naruto thread.

For very obvious cases like the one you just mentioned, it is more acceptable, but not when one-shotting someone just over halfway into a tier boosts you to the next tier.

 

[Zero0zero0zero]

This bothers me too. Apparently Puella Magi is upscalling 500 megatons from a 50 megatons feat, but I'm not sure about the mechanics behind this since it's not stated on the verse page.