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Usopp vs Lady Nagant (9/11/2)

Kingofwolves999 said:
A Pacifista preoccupied with shooting at Brook? He didn’t even shoot several shots he shot one shot that split into several. Seeing through smoke is not equatable to literally not having someone in your field of vision, especially when you’re a robot.

Oh, so you’re just ignorant of the several statements where his precognition was the reason he could do ANY of that? Deku is only able to do those feats because of Precognition. If he did not have Danger Sense, that first shot he caught would have killed him, he wouldn’t have dodged the Danmaku, he wouldn’t have sensed the bullet that curved around a building to hit him in the back, even WITH danger sense he got a chunk of his stomach scraped off by a follow up bullet, AND he would’ve got hit by the OTHER bullet that came to hit him from the back. You are arguing nonsense if you’re claiming he did all that purely because he’s equal to her in speed.

No, none of those wincons were ignored. They are irrelevant, however, to Nagant’s win con. Which is killing Usopp before he can do those things with her higher attack speed.

I’ll be on that thread, don’t you worry.
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I don't know... You have good statements with Nagant but you are downplaying usopp ALOT and sometimes even wanking her... Just what I feel 🤷‍♂️
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Is your argument that he starts with the wolf? If so, he gets shot first because of her higher attack speed, which is what I’ve been saying the whole time. I’ve been under the assumption you were arguing him firing the wolf from the smoke.
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No, all i'm saying that he'll start off with either smokescreen or sleep gas, like you said yourself it's common sense to not breath in gas, thus she'll naturally get away from the gas, which can considered as a small part of Usopp's plan so she will put her focus on getting away from the gas until she realizes that she's now far enough to shoot him, before you suggest she can simply fight while closing her nose and mouth, Usopp can shoot Pop Green Rafflesia Fragrance Manipulation.

Another representation of the fight: She shoot her bullet (faster, but not too fast for him to dodge), given Usopp's character he will dodge out of fear or because he saw her rifle. Usopp had good reaction speed without observation haki, but since he unlocked his. It only slightly enhances his reaction speed, before you ask for "Usopp's observation haki feat", my point here is that his Observation haki only helps him a bit (unconsciously), since it works as sixth sense, so would you please refrain from asking something to provide when i never once claimed something that you assumed i did, I said he will survive but still get hurt by hit, refrain from misinterpeting this point any further. Smokescreen also comes in handy, since the initial distance isn't that far usopp can't shoot.



Kingofwolves999 said:
I cannot give you a number on how much faster her attacks are. Am I required to do so? I don’t recall a rule where only numerical values can lead to some attacks being stronger or faster than normal attacks.
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Yes. You need to specify how fast said attacks are, especially in a speed equalized match. If the gap is 1.5x, then she easily can blitz Usopp, (defeats the purpose of speed equalization) but since you never specified the speed of her bullets, you only said her bullets are faster than herself and managed to hit Deku. We only can assume, and assumptions aren't legitimate facts, until you have proven how much faster the bullets are, Usopp will survive the first confrontation with her.
 
Epiccheev said:
click the three blue dots in the top right corner of a character's profile next to the edit button, then click history. Afterwards you can see all the latest changes made to a page sorted by time, then click on the white dot next to "cur/prev" and you can choose 2 different revisions, then just press "compare selected revisions"
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Ty
 
RazumaHiroki said:
No, all i'm saying that he'll start off with either smokescreen or sleep gas, like you said yourself it's common sense to not breath in gas, thus she'll naturally get away from the gas, which can considered as a small part of Usopp's plan so she will put her focus on getting away from the gas until she realizes that she's now far enough to shoot him, before you suggest she can simply fight while closing her nose and mouth, Usopp can shoot Pop Green Rafflesia Fragrance Manipulation.

Another representation of the fight: She shoot her bullet (faster, but not too fast for him to dodge), given Usopp's character he will dodge out of fear or because he saw her rifle. Usopp had good reaction speed without observation haki, but since he unlocked his. It only slightly enhances his reaction speed, before you ask for "Usopp's observation haki feat", my point here is that his Observation haki only helps him a bit (unconsciously), since it works as sixth sense, so would you please refrain from asking something to provide when i never once claimed something that you assumed i did, I said he will survive but still get hurt by hit, refrain from misinterpeting this point any further. Smokescreen also comes in handy, since the initial distance isn't that far usopp can't shoot.




Yes. You need to specify how fast said attacks are, especially in a speed equalized match. If the gap is 1.5x, then she easily can blitz Usopp, (defeats the purpose of speed equalization) but since you never specified the speed of her bullets, you only said her bullets are faster than herself and managed to hit Deku. We only can assume, and assumptions aren't legitimate facts, until you have proven how much faster the bullets are, Deku will survive the first confrontation with her.
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And the issue with this scenario is she is going to shoot first due to higher attack speed. So he can’t get anything off before she does.

So now you’re trying to claim that he dodges her shots because his reactions, which have been scaled down to Nagant’s base speed, are good? That’s not even an argument, her bullets will just curve and hit him anyway when he dodges out of fear. Just jumping away and shouting isn’t gonna make him not get hit several times.

Except that I am physically incapable of giving you that number. So we have to go by feats alone, which makes her shots incredibly fast in a speed equal match, because of their feats against a character that was her equal in speed. If you want to count that as a blitz go ahead, I’ve been claiming she simply shoots faster than Usopp does and will hit him before he hits her every single time without assistance from his smoke. Opening move is her hitting him with bullets several times. If you can tell me why he survives that without trying to claim he just dodges because he’s a coward, as if that matters when she’s going to predict him dodging, then further arguments become necessary.

I gave several feats of Deku being barely able to not get hit by her shots despite his precog telling him where they are. The same would be the case for Usopp, except worse if he doesn’t have reliable precog. Do you agree or no?
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
A Pacifista preoccupied with shooting at Brook?
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The same Pacifista who can fight several straw hats at once.
Kingofwolves999 said:
He didn’t even shoot several shots he shot one shot that split into several.
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He used the same exact technique on Perona, which was several bullets that exploded.
Kingofwolves999 said:
Oh, so you’re just ignorant of the several statements where his precognition was the reason he could do ANY of that? Deku is only able to do those feats because of Precognition. If he did not have Danger Sense, that first shot he caught would have killed him, he wouldn’t have dodged the Danmaku, he wouldn’t have sensed the bullet that curved around a building to hit him in the back, even WITH danger sense he got a chunk of his stomach scraped off by a follow up bullet, AND he would’ve got hit by the OTHER bullet that came to hit him from the back. You are arguing nonsense if you’re claiming he did all that purely because he’s equal to her in speed.

No, none of those wincons were ignored. They are irrelevant, however, to Nagant’s win con. Which is killing Usopp before he can do those things with her higher attack speed. What is the rebuttal to that?

I’ll be on that thread, don’t you worry.
Click to expand...
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
And the issue with this scenario is she is going to shoot first due to higher attack speed. So he can’t get anything off before she does.
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Irrelevant. I noticed something about your argument. You specifically said her bullets are faster than herself, but doesn't she need to first transform her right arm into a rifle, in order to shoot said bullets in the first place? i don't see any issues with this scenario as both can move at the same time, the only difference here is "her bullets are faster", it essentially means Usopp can get anything off before she does.

Kingofwolves999 said:
So now you’re trying to claim that he dodges her shots because his reactions, which have been scaled down to Nagant’s base speed, are good? That’s not even an argument, her bullets will just curve and hit him anyway when he dodges out of fear. Just jumping away and shouting isn’t gonna make him not get hit several times.
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.......................................I'M GETTING TIRED OF REPEATING! Listen carefully, i explicitly said he will dodge but takes significant damage from the bullet, why are you always misinterpreting this point despite me telling you not to do? why would you assume she start off with rapid fire first? also sorry for the outburst.
 
RazumaHiroki said:
.......................................I'M GETTING TIRED OF REPEATING!
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tenor.gif
 
Also Usopp has stealth mastery in literally his first key.
So what's really going on?
 
Name me one time i said "He will dodge her bullets easily", "he will come out unscathed". Please do! because you refuse to read my points and arguments properly and put words into my mouth i never once said throughout the debate and wants me to provide things i never claimed as well.
 
RazumaHiroki said:
Irrelevant. I noticed something about your argument. You specifically said her bullets are faster than herself, but doesn't she need to first transform her right arm into a rifle, in order to shoot said bullets in the first place? i don't see any issues with this scenario as both can move at the same time, the only difference here is "her bullets are faster", it essentially means Usopp can get anything off before she does.


.......................................I'M GETTING TIRED OF REPEATING! Listen carefully, i explicitly said he will dodge but takes significant damage from the bullet, why are you always misinterpreting this point despite me telling you not to do? why would you assume she start off with rapid fire first? also sorry for the outburst.
Click to expand...
The transformation of her rifle arm is also faster than she is. She specifically hit Deku with the transformation of he rArm even though he saw her movements before she did so. So she can have her gun out faster than Usopp can.

How are you even quantifying “significant damage?” A lost limb? A hole through the chest? Just saying he is gonna get hit badly doesn’t, WHY would it not defeat him when he gets hit? And what does he do when she shoots again?
KingTempest said:
Also Usopp has stealth mastery in literally his first key.
So what's really going on?
Click to expand...
What does that matter when she can see him initially? She tracked Deku bouncing between buildings at night but Usopp trying to hide in a city is supposed to stump her? When he’s nowhere near as mobile? His best stealth option is going into the smoke, which I already accepted.
Bernkastelll said:
Who actually is more skilled?
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Nagant in terms of hitting targets and making calculations.
 
Yeah nvm KingofWolves basically said what I was trying to with more effort and more convincing arguments. Nagant FRA
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
The transformation of her rifle arm is also faster than she is. She specifically hit Deku with the transformation of he rArm even though he saw her movements before she did so. So she can have her gun out faster than Usopp can.
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her "bullets" are faster, not herself. You cannot claim that her own arm isn't a part of her, thus obviously scales to her own speed. Since speed is equalized, she definitely won't blitz him or prevent him from anything, and Usopp has time to set up his traps.
Kingofwolves999 said:
How are you even quantifying “significant damage?” A lost limb? A hole through the chest? Just saying he is gonna get hit badly doesn’t, WHY would it not defeat him when he gets hit? And what does he do when she shoots again?
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We are talking about the same person who took a hit from a 10ton bat straight to his head, prior to this moment he got by multiple explosions and his entire body crushed through multiple buildings. Usopp took damage from Perona and Sugar + Trebol, that would've instantly killed a normal human, his entire body was covered with blood. During his fight with Trebol and Sugar, it was only thanks to his endurance that he managed to stay conscious the whole time. It won't defeat him, also you are assuming that Usopp's first move wouldn't temporarily prevent her from shooting him again, her bullets is indeed faster, however Usopp's first attack will activate its effect after he barely dodged her bullet.
Kingofwolves999 said:
What does that matter when she can see him initially? She tracked Deku bouncing between buildings at night but Usopp trying to hide in a city is supposed to stump her? When he’s nowhere near as mobile? His best stealth option is going into the smoke, which I already accepted.
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Because her sight is unaffected by night and she knows that city very well, however, they are fighting in dressrosa an environment she doesn't know well and her profile doesn't state anything about enhanced sight, so its irrelevant. She couldn't even tell what Deku was doing while he hid within the smoke. Also mobility matters little if you manage to make her off balance or bait her into a position usopp wants.
 
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NomsNoms said:
I wouldnt say Usopp is more skilled, I'd just say he has way more gadgets and abilities to make up for it. Then again I could be wrong so please correct me, with evidence please, if I am.
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I would say Usopp has a lot of elements of surprise and win conditions. She may be more skilled, but Usopp is practically a strategist who utilizes his weapons very well, and knows how to bait people into his trap. Reminder that the initial distance is 500 meter, so Usopp has plenty of options
 
RazumaHiroki said:
her "bullets" are faster, not herself. You cannot claim that her own arm isn't a part of her, thus obviously scales to her own speed. Since speed is equalized, she definitely won't blitz him or prevent him from anything, and Usopp has time to set up his traps.

We are talking about the same person who took a hit from a 10ton bat straight to his head, prior to this moment he got by multiple explosions and his entire body crushed through multiple buildings. Usopp took damage from Perona and Sugar + Trebol, that would've instantly killed a normal human, his entire body was covered with blood. During his fight with Trebol and Sugar, it was only thanks to his endurance that he managed to stay conscious the whole time. It won't defeat him, also you are assuming that Usopp's first move wouldn't temporarily prevent her from shooting him again, her bullets is indeed faster, however Usopp's first attack will activate its effect after he barely dodged her bullet.

Because her sight is unaffected by night and she knows that city very well, however, they are fighting in dressrosa an environment she doesn't know well and her profile doesn't state anything about enhanced sight, so its irrelevant. She couldn't even tell what Deku was doing while he hid within the smoke. Also mobility matters little if you manage to make her off balance or bait her into a position usopp wants.
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No, I mean her arm when it transforms into a rifle is fast enough to hit Deku before he can react. It’s fast and, even making shockwaves from extending and retracting.



I mean, I respect the pain tolerance grind for my man Usopp, but he’s frankly getting gunned down here. It’s not a beat down, it’s an assassination, no pain tolerance is going to shrug off a hole through his chest or legs (at least not a pain tolerance to the degree he has.) And even if he gets the shot off, she immediately dodges by flying then shoots another shot at him while he’s still reeling in pain.

She knows that city well? Can you confirm that? She’s been out of prison for a max of a few days and has been following Deku around to different cities waiting to strike, she hasn’t exactly memorized the layout unless you have statement that she has. And the issue with Usopp baiting is, again, when is he going to get the chance? If he takes big damage from her first shot, what’s stopping her from shooting again and finishing him off? His plans go out of the window the moment she fires and realizes that he’s outgunned in term
 
Usopp wins
His arsenal is way too big and unpredictable. Usopp will simply outdo her with his cunning tactical abilities, then use something like a flash dial to blind her, a pop green to restrain her then a fire bird star to finish her off. If we're talking about range Haki can grow stronger mid battle so even if Lady Nagant tries to distance herself Usopp will adapt.
 
mitsuki said:
Usopp wins
His arsenal is way too big and unpredictable. Usopp will simply outdo her with his cunning tactical abilities, then use something like a flash dial to blind her, a pop green to restrain her then a fire bird star to finish her off. If we're talking about range Haki can grow stronger mid battle so even if Lady Nagant tries to distance herself Usopp will adapt.
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All of these points have been and are currently being addressed. How does Usopp do much if her higher attack speed is disrupting him and riddling his body with holes?

Versatility only gets you so far.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
No, I mean her arm when it transforms into a rifle is fast enough to hit Deku before he can react. It’s fast and, even making shockwaves from extending and retracting.
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I can't see the images. Doesn't disprove my point, we've already established that her bullets are faster than herself, her right arm, on the other hand is still part of her body, therefore scales to her own speed and not the speed of the bullets. Also, aren't you forgetting the fact that Deku reacted to it, but was caught off-guard if he wanted he would've ended her.

There's no indication that Deku was serious, "I'll make her reveal All for one and Shigraki's location", while deflecting her bullet, meaning he can react to her bullets and even Nagant herself said so. Deku's objective was to make her reveal everything, so he was sorta holding back against her. If he was serious, he could've used black whip to restraint her and one shot her with a classic "Smash". He didn't, that's why he struggled so hard against Nagant and put himself at a disadvantageous situation which she took advantage (Similarly, how Naruto struggled keeping Delta alive). The difference between their range was crystal clear, but saying Deku absolutely couldn't react to her bullets isn't true if he was serious from the very beginning of the fight, and no i'm not downplaying her. All i'm saying, we shouldn't act like that a serious deku can't easily dodge or deflect her bullets.
 
RazumaHiroki said:
I can't see the images. Doesn't disprove my point, we've already established that her bullets are faster than herself, her right arm, on the other hand is still part of her body, therefore scales to her own speed and not the speed of the bullets. Also, aren't you forgetting the fact that Deku reacted to it, but was caught off-guard if he wanted he would've ended her.

There's no indication that Deku was serious, "I'll make her reveal All for one and Shigraki's location", while deflecting her bullet, meaning he can react to her bullets and even Nagant herself said so. Deku's objective was to make her reveal everything, so he was sorta holding back against her. If he was serious, he could've used black whip to restraint her and one shot her with a classic "Smash". He didn't, that's why he struggled so hard against Nagant and put himself at a disadvantageous situation which she took advantage (Similarly, how Naruto struggled keeping Delta alive). The difference between their range was crystal clear, but saying Deku absolutely couldn't react to her bullets isn't true if he was serious from the very beginning of the fight, and no i'm not downplaying her. All i'm saying, why shouldn't act like that a serious deku can't easily dodge or deflect her bullets.
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So Deku pulled a "Naruto VS Delta"?
 
RazumaHiroki said:
I can't see the images. Doesn't disprove my point, we've already established that her bullets are faster than herself, her right arm, on the other hand is still part of her body, therefore scales to her own speed and not the speed of the bullets. Also, aren't you forgetting the fact that Deku reacted to it, but was caught off-guard if he wanted he would've ended her.

There's no indication that Deku was serious, "I'll make her reveal All for one and Shigraki's location", while deflecting her bullet, meaning he can react to her bullets and even Nagant herself said so. Deku's objective was to make her reveal everything, so he was sorta holding back against her. If he was serious, he could've used black whip to restraint her and one shot her with a classic "Smash". He didn't, that's why he struggled so hard against and put himself at a disadvantageous situation which she took advantage. The difference between their range was crystal clear, but saying Deku absolutely couldn't react to her bullets isn't true if he was serious from the very beginning of the fight, and no i'm not downplaying her. All i'm saying, why shouldn't act like that a serious deku can't easily dodge or deflect her bullets.
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No, I mean the Rifle part of her arm. Her body is not as fast as her bullets, but when she activates her Quirk, a rifle literally pops OUT of her arm at speeds that Deku couldn’t react to. So the actual transformation of her rifle is fast as heck.

I mean, we can argue all day about why he didn’t just knock her out at that point or not, but the baseline is that he was not taking her lightly in any capacity. He absolutely could’ve beaten her there, but he (uncharacteristically?) got cocky that he caught her, claiming snipers can’t do anything when they’re caught.

He then immediately ate shit for that line of thinking. So I wouldn’t say he was holding back, more so he got arrogant when he thought he had a win condition and pulled it off. Also he might be on a high from using like 6 quirks at the same time.
 
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