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Vaporization of stuff but with higher heat - how do we treat it?

Arceus0x

Arceus0x

15,667
10,695
I've come across a dilemma. A dude has a 1000 degree attack, he shoots it at water and vaporizes it instantly. Can we say he heated it up to 1000 degrees, or do we limit ourselves to 100? Strictly speaking, since he did it instantly, his attack would've heated that entire area including the water to 1000 degrees, but then there's the issue of how water would behave and would the energy necessary to heat it all up be the same?

I have a personal reason for why I want to know this, but here's a calc to represent my thoughts
vsbattles.fandom.com

Fairy Tail: FDKM Natsu Vaporizes Lake Scilliora

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com

This calc is both accepted by Mitch and somewhat rejected by Therefir and then it is all made by CloverDragon. This means that there's a discrepancy in mod opinions on this which I want solved.

Please help me out here lads.
 
Kachon123 said:
Water boils at 100º, so it can not be heated to 1000º without it vaporizing first.
Click to expand...
Ik but then there's the issue that comes next as the water molecules aren't gonna disperse within that exact moment and they'd be heated even further. That's where the issue continues.
That's why I want mods to dicsuss this so we can set a precedent and an idea of what to do.
Maybe one could calculate the vaporization of that object and then the energy necessary to heat up the air and vapor to the necessary heat mark.
 
Kachon123 said:
Water boils at 100º, so it can not be heated to 1000º without it vaporizing first.
Click to expand...
Seems like the calc in the OP shouldn't be used going by this.

The secondary issue being that just because Natsu could create flames of 200 million degrees doesn't necessarily mean that the entire volume of something that he heats up - such as a lake - is going to reach that temperature too.
 
Arceus0x said:
Ik but then there's the issue that comes next as the water molecules aren't gonna disperse within that exact moment and they'd be heated even further. That's where the issue continues.
That's why I want mods to dicsuss this so we can set a precedent and an idea of what to do.
Maybe one could calculate the vaporization of that object and then the energy necessary to heat up the air and vapor to the necessary heat mark.
Click to expand...
Regardless of if the feat was "instant" or not, there's no way to prove that the water was heated all the way to 1000º before it evaporated. It could fall anywhere between 100º and 1000º, and because a simple average of 550º wouldn't work due to it being to speculative, sticking with 100º is much safer.

It's obviously much worse in the case of Clover's calc when we're talking about the water's temperature being raised all the way to 200000000º.
 
as a chemist undergraduade that succesfully passed physicochemistry 1 that calculation hurts my eyes.
how are we certain that water is even 1000C or 200M C anyway??!??!
The amount of energy would be divided to each water molecule and so is temperature, it can be 101C or 54387C for gods SAKE
 
the temperature should be changed to 100C and the calculation should be accepted as (at least XXXX joule energy etc)
Edit i calculated it should be accepted as at least 2.03*10^18 joule (7-A mountain level)
not the mention you need to add vaporization heat for every mole of water too
 
Last edited:
Damage3245 said:
Seems like the calc in the OP shouldn't be used going by this.

The secondary issue being that just because Natsu could create flames of 200 million degrees doesn't necessarily mean that the entire volume of something that he heats up - such as a lake - is going to reach that temperature too.
Click to expand...
But let's say we have a different story, one that I require for personal use as well.

An energy beam is shot through the ground which let's say is rock. Beam is tens of thousands of degrees, the heat to vape rocks is several thousand degrees.
Now the beam is shot down directly creating a hole. This means that the vapor can't escape without being hit by the beam. What do we do here?
Whether it is rock or vaporized rock, it still gets hit and heated up by the beam shooting continuously.
 
Damage3245 said:
Seems like the calc in the OP shouldn't be used going by this.

The secondary issue being that just because Natsu could create flames of 200 million degrees doesn't necessarily mean that the entire volume of something that he heats up - such as a lake - is going to reach that temperature too.
Click to expand...
Also could you ping Mitch and Clover to see if they've anything to try n refute here?
 
vaporization heat of water is 2260kj/kg LMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO which makes it 1.3234878*10^19 joule for that amount of water. so then we can say for water being heated to 100C
its 1.5264878e+19J total at least
 
Arceus0x said:
An energy beam is shot through the ground which let's say is rock. Beam is tens of thousands of degrees, the heat to vape rocks is several thousand degrees.
Now the beam is shot down directly creating a hole. This means that the vapor can't escape without being hit by the beam. What do we do here?
Whether it is rock or vaporized rock, it still gets hit and heated up by the beam shooting continuously.
Click to expand...
Assuming the vapor is being heated and you know the initial and final temperatures of the gas, you'd have to do a separate calculation than for the rock in a solid state, as it would have a different specific heat capacity as a vapor.

Regardless I'd just recommend using this rather than using the method in Clover's calc for a scenario like the one you mentioned.
 
helello100 said:
vaporization heat of water is 2260kj/kg LMOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO which makes it 1.3234878*10^19 joule for that amount of water. so then we can say for water being heated to 100C
its 1.5264878e+19J total at least
Click to expand...
You seem to misunderstand the issue at hand here. I used the calc as an example but what I care about is the situation of "If under Y circumstances X is hit with continuous instant heat that surpasses it's vaporization value, would we still count in the energy required to heat up X or its vapor or not"
 
Kachon123 said:
Assuming the vapor is being heated and you know the initial and final temperatures of the gas, you'd have to do a separate calculation than for the rock in a solid state, as it would have a different specific heat capacity as a vapor.

Regardless I'd just recommend using this rather than using the method in Clover's calc for a scenario like the one you mentioned.
Click to expand...
I was thinking a similar things. Air heating calcs exist so it is possible. I just think there should be guidelines regarding that situation.
 
Arceus0x said:
You seem to misunderstand the issue at hand here. I used the calc as an example but what I care about is the situation of "If under Y circumstances X is hit with continuous instant heat that surpasses it's vaporization value, would we still count in the energy required to heat up X or its vapor or not"
Click to expand...
Simply yes we count it
i mean heat surpasses the vap. heat so what? that only means its giving X amount of joule per second so its just has X watt of power
 
Damage3245 said:
Seems like the calc in the OP shouldn't be used going by this.

The secondary issue being that just because Natsu could create flames of 200 million degrees doesn't necessarily mean that the entire volume of something that he heats up - such as a lake - is going to reach that temperature too.
Click to expand...
I agree with this, just because the attack is "over 200,000,000 degrees Celsius" doesn't mean the water was heated to that extent (which would be impossible anyway) and it really doesn't matter how instantaneous it was.
 
Therefir said:
I agree with this, just because the attack is "over 200,000,000 degrees Celsius" doesn't mean the water was heated to that extent (which would be impossible anyway) and it really doesn't matter how instantaneous it was.
Click to expand...
What do you think about the situation I brought up slightly above?
 
Arceus0x said:
But let's say we have a different story, one that I require for personal use as well.

An energy beam is shot through the ground which let's say is rock. Beam is tens of thousands of degrees, the heat to vape rocks is several thousand degrees.
Now the beam is shot down directly creating a hole. This means that the vapor can't escape without being hit by the beam. What do we do here?
Whether it is rock or vaporized rock, it still gets hit and heated up by the beam shooting continuously.
Click to expand...
Can't we just calculate the volume of the beam and apply that temperature change to the beam itself?
 
Wait what does happen to vapor that gets heated to a higher temp like 200mil degrees? Does it still just stay vapor? I thought stuff converts to plasma after a certain temp.
 
Axe it idc, not even relevant for the verse’s scaling anyway. There’s an Ignia calc that does the same so axe that too
 
Unless I'm misreading that calc it seems to be the same method that is used for vaporizing the water but for wood instead, instead of calcing just the fire beam itself.
 
Arceus0x said:
How? Explain it in mathless monkey terms
Click to expand...
Since the premise of your feat involves a beam that is tens of thousands of degrees, and this beam occupies the physical space where the air or in this case the rock is, it would be as simple as finding the volume of the beam and applying the temperature change of heating that space tens of thousands of degrees.

At least that's how I would calculate it, if the beam vaporizes more rock than its volume, I would calculate that extra volume separately and use rock vaporization (since only the beam itself is tens of thousands degrees), or whatever gives me greater results.
 
Last edited:
Damage3245 said:
Unless I'm misreading that calc it seems to be the same method that is used for vaporizing the water but for wood instead, instead of calcing just the fire beam itself.
Click to expand...
Not me forgetting my own calc…

Fair enough ig though I’d like to get Mitch’s input before doing anything
 
Sorry that it came to this lads but I wanted clarity on this since it's been bothering me for a while
 
Nah it's ok, I have more or less an idea of what you are asking.

Either you calculate the beam itself or the vaporization of rock, whichever gives you better results. The vapor not being able to escape doesn't change things much, the rock is already vaporized and the vapor is not going to get any hotter than the beam itself, vapor or rock, it's all already plasma at that point (or it should be).
 
It's basically just a method I used to see what the value would be with temperatures this hot. It was mainly just me messing around. These calcs have never been the main scaling for anything.

So I've never been too for or against them, you can just as easily use vaporization values if you so prefer
 
Well, then we can probably nuke 'em. I may revisit the Dragon Force Natsu one at some point but it's not important at all
 
Thanks for commenting everyone. I don't think we'll need a CRT since the calcs just need to be removed from the verse page IIRC.
 
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