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I don’t see a resistance to illusion creation and perception manipulation?
KS isn’t listed as mind manipulation.
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Vegeta vs Aizen
- Thread starter Tuxidoe_Redo
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KS isn’t listed as mind manipulation.
Mbpoops
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Believe me, I haven’t laughed like this in a very long time. Today I’m truly laughing from the bottom of my heart at this obvious matchup.
You’re saying Aizen will defeat Vegeta using Hado 90??? Did you forget that Hado 90 didn’t even work against Dangai Ichigo? Ichigo destroyed Hado 90 with a single wave of his hand and it caused him no damage at all — it was just a joke to Ichigo — and you’re saying it will destroy Vegeta when Vegeta is at the 2-C level? And even without any transformation he’s 2-C, so by what logic are you speaking?
Aizen couldn’t affect Dangai Ichigo with illusions, power, Hado, or anything at all — Aizen couldn’t even sense his power anymore because of the massive gap between them. And this means that if you’re vastly stronger than your opponent, illusions won’t be useful at all — or are you trying to deny and hide this? The Dangai Ichigo vs Aizen fight is the best proof of what would happen in a Vegeta vs Aizen fight. Illusions, Hado, nothing worked — Aizen was like a child compared to Ichigo at that time — and this proves that illusions and Hado are useless against opponents far stronger than you, and that’s where this discussion ends.
This is still a stomp discussion — Vegeta wins with a single hit. And I ask the moderator to close this topic because it will only cause conflict and problems, especially between works like Dragon Ball and Bleach. My point is clear, and the fight between Monster Aizen and Dangai Ichigo alone proves everything and explains the mechanism of everything, so there’s no need to continue this topic to avoid problems — and everyone has already voted for Vegeta to win, so there’s no need to continue this post.
You’re saying Aizen will defeat Vegeta using Hado 90??? Did you forget that Hado 90 didn’t even work against Dangai Ichigo? Ichigo destroyed Hado 90 with a single wave of his hand and it caused him no damage at all — it was just a joke to Ichigo — and you’re saying it will destroy Vegeta when Vegeta is at the 2-C level? And even without any transformation he’s 2-C, so by what logic are you speaking?
Aizen couldn’t affect Dangai Ichigo with illusions, power, Hado, or anything at all — Aizen couldn’t even sense his power anymore because of the massive gap between them. And this means that if you’re vastly stronger than your opponent, illusions won’t be useful at all — or are you trying to deny and hide this? The Dangai Ichigo vs Aizen fight is the best proof of what would happen in a Vegeta vs Aizen fight. Illusions, Hado, nothing worked — Aizen was like a child compared to Ichigo at that time — and this proves that illusions and Hado are useless against opponents far stronger than you, and that’s where this discussion ends.
This is still a stomp discussion — Vegeta wins with a single hit. And I ask the moderator to close this topic because it will only cause conflict and problems, especially between works like Dragon Ball and Bleach. My point is clear, and the fight between Monster Aizen and Dangai Ichigo alone proves everything and explains the mechanism of everything, so there’s no need to continue this topic to avoid problems — and everyone has already voted for Vegeta to win, so there’s no need to continue this post.
ItsMeat
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2 new pages, tf did I miss while I was sleeping
Anyway, to sum up the args:
Did I miss anything?
2. That's literally extrasensorial perception, not resistance to perception manipulation…
Anyway, to sum up the args:
Hakai
1. Kyoka+dimensional travel+stamina
2. Reiatsu pressure crush
3. Kurohitsugi
2. Reiatsu pressure crush
3. Kurohitsugi
Kyoka:
1. Perhaps the layered extrasensorial perception for aizen's transcendent spiritual energy, although through other means of potency, the extrasensorial perception of the likes of yhwach is unfathomably greater
2. Some argue power>hax but this thing never negated Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu. Sorry, Azerty, my goat, Aizen explicitly states he could have Ichigo under kyoka
, not that it won't work on him. Also, there are several reasons why this isn't an argument here regardless
Reiatsu crush: It's argued you don't need LS to resist it although Specter made it pretty clear you need it
Kurohitsugi: same argument, but also the argument that vegeta resists ee so he can resist deconstruction as well, which isn't necessarily true considering ee is magical, the deconstruction is done via sheer gravity
1. Perhaps the layered extrasensorial perception for aizen's transcendent spiritual energy, although through other means of potency, the extrasensorial perception of the likes of yhwach is unfathomably greater
2. Some argue power>hax but this thing never negated Aizen's Kyoka Suigetsu. Sorry, Azerty, my goat, Aizen explicitly states he could have Ichigo under kyoka
, not that it won't work on him. Also, there are several reasons why this isn't an argument here regardless
Reiatsu crush: It's argued you don't need LS to resist it although Specter made it pretty clear you need it
Kurohitsugi: same argument, but also the argument that vegeta resists ee so he can resist deconstruction as well, which isn't necessarily true considering ee is magical, the deconstruction is done via sheer gravity
1. His wincons simply play faster, hakai aura doesn't instantly spawn on him or smth, he can dimensionally travel while vegeta is under kyoka from just seeing him and that would be it.
2. Or just kurohitsugi diff from distance.
3. And his insane deductive powers would make him avoid hakai and other things vegeta may try since this is equal speed.
4. Especially in character, Vegeta loves to do small talk before attacking the opponent
2. Or just kurohitsugi diff from distance.
3. And his insane deductive powers would make him avoid hakai and other things vegeta may try since this is equal speed.
4. Especially in character, Vegeta loves to do small talk before attacking the opponent
1. Doesn't the wiki treat that as being only under the Toei continuity for whatever reason?
2. That's literally extrasensorial perception, not resistance to perception manipulation…
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Kyoka didn't work on Ichigo because Aizen never used it on him before. Not because he negated it.
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vegeta nukes the bleach planet
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My guy ain’t no way you think kid DB Goku basic clearing your mind mental training is good enough to resist KS???
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Brother base Aizen was soul crushing Grimmjow with his reiastu with while putting in zero effort at all. So unless your gonna argue Tatsu > Grimmjow, then he was clearly just toying with her here because he's an evil douche bag. Which is something he does all the time. This mf literally pretended to take a nap in the middle of the street just to mess with some random Lieutenants. It is completely in character for him to be playing around with Ichigo's friends.
There's no real point in going super in-depth about this thread since it's already been decided, but a lot of the arguments against Aizen here are kinda disingenuous. Which is crazy because you're already putting him against an essentially bloodlusted 2-C character with passive EE.
ItsMeat
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I mean, it's explicitly stated he was lowering his energy to absurd degrees to play with food:
The likes of Isshin and Urahara couldn't sense him ever since the second fusion, but Ichigo's friends sense his energy in the 3rd fusion, bruh, this should already ring bells for anyone
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No inappropriate comments please.
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Mbpoops
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You think they just stopped training these resistances after ogdb?
Mbpoops
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Why would only toei characters be able to have this resistance when the characters get infinitely stronger and more resistant after the scan in all continuities
it seems to be accepted as perception manip resistance
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this match can be added i think
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- Thread starter
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It's over?
ItsMeat
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Don't ask me, that's how the page is. Also, the "resistance"(once again, it's just extrasensorial perception) growing infinitely stronger is extremely questionable since even in dbs we have things like goku unable to sense ki from earth while he's on beerus' planet, for example
Which is just more bs on db profiles. Although, the mechanics make it quite clear this "resistance" works just like extrasensorial perception
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Grace ends soon btw
Mbpoops
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So dbs goku has the same level of resistance as ogdb goku got it lol
Make a crt to change it then if its bs. its indexed as a resistance so he has this resistance
ItsMeat
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It's not a resistance in the first place, it's just extrasensorial perception. But these are the profiles
It's also only indexed for toei so manga vegeta doesn't have it. You can also make a crt to change this
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Add me under vegeta too
Mbpoops
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It is literally indexed and accepted as a resistanceIt's not a resistance in the first place, it's just extrasensorial perception. But these are the profiles
Im not sure why the manga profiles wouldnt have this the page just lists its from the toei anime Its still innate to ki. The page states “All abilities from canon Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z, plus” at least from what i see (im on mobile so it could look different)
ItsMeat
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Yeah, for an unknown reason. Just like how for another unknown reason only toei has itIt is literally indexed and accepted as a resistance
The section for dbs manga ends above this. Then you have the section for dbs anime. Only then comes the toei section
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How can I convince you that Goku in Ultra Instinct does not need his mind or the five senses in combat? In the Ultra Instinct state, Goku can react to danger involuntarily, and he cannot be deceived or put under any illusion in this form, and even all weaknesses disappear in this state. Even without Ultra Instinct, when he fought Moro, Goku told him that illusions do not affect him and are useless against him.
Vegeta is at exactly the same level of power as Goku, so Vegeta would win. I only know one thing: even Krillin or Goten alone would solo the entire Bleach verse.
XSOULOFCINDERX
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Also doesn't Kyoka Suigetsu in this key have layered hax?
ItsMeat
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So the goat finally speaks
Comparing Moro's illusions to Kyoka is an insult for Kyoka, which has infinitely greater potency, being able to place illusions in all those possible futures Yhwach perceives
Neither Krillin nor Goten stand a chance against Aizen Victim #2425361 aka The Cleaner
Keep cooking, UI only mechanics get chainscaled for Vegeta
Comparing Moro's illusions to Kyoka is an insult for Kyoka, which has infinitely greater potency, being able to place illusions in all those possible futures Yhwach perceives
Chainscaling abilities unrelated to power because of power lvls
Yeah, keep telling them, goat
Neither Krillin nor Goten stand a chance against Aizen Victim #2425361 aka The Cleaner
ItsMeat
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Vegeta's Wincoins: Hakai + AP DC Diff
Aizen's Wincoins: Class T Pressure
Yeah nothing else, Vegeta is resistant to Existental level matter destruction-soul destruction-existence erasure-deconstruction, and He is able to overcome Mind Manipulations with Sheer Power
He also has a Aura that passively erases things historical level from existence
Aizen's Wincoins: Class T Pressure
Yeah nothing else, Vegeta is resistant to Existental level matter destruction-soul destruction-existence erasure-deconstruction, and He is able to overcome Mind Manipulations with Sheer Power
He also has a Aura that passively erases things historical level from existence
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??????
Vegeta doesn't have Ultra Instinct so im not sure why your even bringing any of this up.
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I'm just gonna address some of the arguments surrounding Kyoka because I don't think Vegeta should resist it.
1. The feat in reference here is for TOEI DBZ and therefore not applicable to MANGA Vegeta
2. Aizen's Kyoka is Enhanced Illusion Creation & Perception Manipulation, which means this feat wouldn't matter anyway, as it's only baseline.
This version of Vegeta doesn't have perception manipulation resistance. Which is what Kyoka is.
This is only baseline resistance, which many Bleach characters have, and Kyoka still affects them.
see Byakuya for example
I'm pretty sure Ichigo does as well. Plus I'm not sure Vegeta's exp would even help, considering Aizen's perception manipulation is just so much stronger. This wouldn't be able to counter Aizen's ability to make your perception of time go out of whack and make you perceive hours in seconds. Vegeta has never really combatted an ability like that before.
There's not much point in going further in depth as Vegeta already FRA Trained before I got here, but I do think some of the stuff being pushed here for Vegeta doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
1. The feat in reference here is for TOEI DBZ and therefore not applicable to MANGA Vegeta
2. Aizen's Kyoka is Enhanced Illusion Creation & Perception Manipulation, which means this feat wouldn't matter anyway, as it's only baseline.
This version of Vegeta doesn't have perception manipulation resistance. Which is what Kyoka is.
This is only baseline resistance, which many Bleach characters have, and Kyoka still affects them.
see Byakuya for example
- Mind Manipulation, Enhanced Fear Manipulation (3 Layers) & Empathic Manipulation (He resisted the initial effects of Äs Nödt's The Fear with sheer willpower alone and The Love with his Oken garbs)
I'm pretty sure Ichigo does as well. Plus I'm not sure Vegeta's exp would even help, considering Aizen's perception manipulation is just so much stronger. This wouldn't be able to counter Aizen's ability to make your perception of time go out of whack and make you perceive hours in seconds. Vegeta has never really combatted an ability like that before.
There's not much point in going further in depth as Vegeta already FRA Trained before I got here, but I do think some of the stuff being pushed here for Vegeta doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
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I could swear this shit wasn't going to get any worse, Vegeta bullying poor Aizen FRA
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Almost on the level of Zeno once they "cook" according to some people
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The Perception Manipulation stuff genuinely doesn't matter regardless. Vegeta has 2 layers of Ki Sensing. If Aizen has no feats of manipulating a sense with this many layers then I have no reason to think he can control Vegeta's Ki Sense. We have also seen Vegeta and peers like Goku fight Illusion users and deduce the real body via discrepancies in the fight. So if Vegeta's Ki Sense tells him something else from his main 5 senses then he's going to trust in his Ki Sense and kill Aizen.
Mbpoops
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5-6(Dimensional) Hills according to reddit
Mbpoops
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Every building in the ss had a universe
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When can we get both at Tier-1 here so we can redo this match?
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You'll get your match when you wank this damn verses!When can we get both at Tier-1 here so we can redo this match?
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- Thread starter
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Is the match over?
- Status
