Void Light Revisions

[AkuAkuAkuma]

Updated/Current Topic.

Thread concurrently involves the updating and analyzation of Void Light's capabilities in lore and game. Agreed abilities will be updated into existing Light wielder profiles and articles.

Previous Discussion Topic

Concurrently, nothing in verse justifies effectively the application of EE on the articles. Void Light proves more comparable to Gravity Manipulation, Power Nullification, and Status Effect Inducement with explanations and displays of its use both in-game and in-lore.

Existence Erasure is still proves prevalent among other cast though the possible change is solely affecting Light Bearers compared to the verse collectively.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

neat

I Agree

 

[Holyhotsauce]

bump

 

[Wokistan]

I don't think people are listed as having EE for void stuff alone, just void manip. Void guns do delete corpses of people killed by them though.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

I don't think people are listed as having EE for void stuff alone, just void manip. Void guns do delete corpses of people killed by them though.

We know, they get resistance to void stuff from Hive shenanigans anyway.

So does any linear/fusion rifle with the killing shot, or anything that uses firefly/any melee ability that can disintegrate enemies. Besides, Void based auto rifles or hand cannons simply shooting at already dead bodies don't disintegrate the enemy. The 'disintegration' of enemies we see is done by any sufficiently strong attack/super/grenade/gun, regardless of elemental type.

Besides, in practice, it's like what is said in the OP (Gravity Manipulation, Power Nullification, and Status Effect Inducement). It doesn't actually erase anything, and giving any ability with the void element strapped to it instant erasure ability is the big wank. Especially things like Bubble titan which just block attacks. Maybe it is still void manip, but in actual application of the ability it still isn't erasue/anything like it has been described on the profiles.

 

[Wokistan]

What's improperly described as erasure though? It's pretty late rn and I was about to sleep, but I can look at Ishtar stuff tomorrow.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I mentioned this exact thing before lol.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

What's improperly described as erasure though? It's pretty late rn and I was about to sleep, but I can look at Ishtar stuff tomorrow.

If you mean on the profiles, literally anything to do with the Void element rn.

If you mean on Ishtar: That's the thing, it doesn't mention erasue, anywhere. The best thing close to it is 'disintegration', which all supers do to enemies.

We've already poured over the Ishtar stuff, there isn't anything there.

 

[Sigurd_Snake_in_The_Eye]

I agree with holyhotsauce, a lot of things "erase" hell even arc energy pretty much erases like shoulder charge. And Nova Bomb is outright stated to be disintegration. The most powerful ability for a void warlock.

 

[WHYNAUT]

I disagree with this for a number of reasons.

Let's get one of the obvious arguments against Void Manipulation out of the way: The fact that both Arc and Solar Light leave no traces behind of enemies either. There's actually explanations and mentions of this in the lore and when used by NPCs they do the same thing.

As for the explanations in the lore.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/arc

This shows that Arc Light manipulates the forces that bind together complex matter.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/stormcaller

Here it is also mentioned that Arc Light affects matter.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/solar

Solar Light manipulates quanta, which means it's also Quantum Manipulation.

In conclusion, the argument of Solar and Arc Light doing the same thing is a non-factor.


One thing I noticed is that the links in the OP don't actually disprove Void Light also being Void Manipulation.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/cards/void

All it mentions is that beneath the world of matter and light lies the vacuum and that the Void Light is tied to vacuums. Void Light uses vacuums. And a vacuum is a space absent of matter, so if anything this points to Void Light using emptiness, nothingness.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/items/warped-armlet

"It's still unwearable, but this armlet shivers with a greater power: atomic infinity, utter absence, a dark and fractured mirror. You recognize this feeling now: residual Void Light."

I rest my case. The fact that it also mentions "atomic infinity" and "a dark and fractured mirror", both of which don't really mean anything, doesn't matter, because all elements have multiple functions and applications. Just because Void Light also manipulates gravity, doesn't mean it can't also be Void Manipulation.

https://www.ishtar-collective.net/records/the-accolade

"The sliding doors behind her opened with a whoosh, and a violet discus cut through the air above her, singing like a sword loosed from its sheath. Three of the creatures dissolved into screaming Void as the disc of Light caromed down the length of the corridor."

This literally states they were turned into Void.

"Besides, Void based auto rifles or hand cannons simply shooting at already dead bodies don't disintegrate the enemy."

You can't do damage to corpses with weapons no matter what. This is clearly gameplay mechanics, unless it means that AP isn't actually a thing, considering kinetic weapons can't do anything to corpses either. And this is a revision for Void Light, not void weapons, anyway.


I really don't see why Void Light also having effects such as Status Effect Inducement and Gravity Manipulation contradicts it also being able to manipulate void. There's also Arc Light abilities that have Status Effect Inducement, but that doesn't mean Arc Light shouldn't have Electricity Manipulation, does it? Void Manipulation is simply on of the multiple uses of Void Light.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Seth Dickinson, the grimoire writer, said that he based the concept of void energy on the quantum vacuum.

 

[AkuAkuAkuma]

@WWHYNAUT. Noted less for contradiction and primarily more with the in lore/combat utilization of Void Light showcasing the listed abilities in the OP compared to EE overtly.

Concurrently though more in favor of updating pages/making a page of The Light collectively in the vain of Sword Logic. Mainly for more apt context and justification with its progressively developing uses the longer the game goes.

Especially with The Light continually being tied to fundamental forces of the universe.

 

[WHYNAUT]

@Akuma

Oh I definitely agree that Void Light uses those just as much if not more than Void Manipulation. I just think that it also has Void Manipulation and I was under the impression that this thread was for removing it.

@Sakamaki

Do you have a link? That actually would explain a lot and there are mentions of it in the lore.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

@WHYNAUT

All i have is this reddit link: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyLor..._source=amp&utm_medium=&utm_content=post_body

 

[AkuAkuAkuma]

@WHYNAUT, With apologies on vagueness, OP updated a tad for intention clarification on the topic.

 

[AkuAkuAkuma]

Bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

I would like to adress the link that Sakamaki posted. The OP in that thread makes complete sense and it's extremely consistent. I'm still searching for when Seth Dickinson said that void energy is based on the quantum vacuum, but I propose that that's what we use as the standard.

Depending on whether others argee with that reddit post, this would give Void Light: Quantum Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation as standard abilities.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

If the reddit post is legit then i agree with the powers yeah.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well the reddit post already has links to a bunch of lore entries that support the stuff the OP says and I have more scans that are consistent with it.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

I would like to adress the link that Sakamaki posted. The OP in that thread makes complete sense and it's extremely consistent. I'm still searching for when Seth Dickinson said that void energy is based on the quantum vacuum, but I propose that that's what we use as the standard.
Depending on whether others argee with that reddit post, this would give Void Light: Quantum Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation as standard abilities.

As well as Life Manipulation.

"The Titans decry the Voidwalkers of our use of Light. Vampiric and grotesque, they call us. But how do they think their Disintegration barriers form? What do they think happens to their atomized victims? Titans can be so amusing."

—Ikora Rey

 

[Holyhotsauce]

Atomisation it is then.

So Quantum Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation + Life Absorption and Matter Manipulation (Atomic) as standard?

 

[WHYNAUT]

For Void Light, yes, although Warlocks already have matter manipulation at a macro quantum level.

 

[Holyhotsauce]

aight.

So, I guess thats that?

Just replace all the EE stuff with the new powers.

It should be noted that the Bubble super doesn't disintergrate or damage actual enemies, just projectiles, and the guarding shield titan takes a while to do damage to strong enemies.

 

[Sakamaki_Fuji]

Solar and Arc Light should be updated as well.

 

[Archaron]

For Void Light, yes, although Warlocks already have matter manipulation at a macro quantum level.

Have you considered some guns with void properties? Even because any weapon that has void properties counts as its ability being influenced by void light, since without void light they would be kinetic weapons.

 

[WHYNAUT]

We should get an admin, preferably Wok, to look give okay this. I also wanted to discuss what we give to the void weapons. The Tractor Cannon's lore tab also mentions the quantum vacuum and the Graviton Lance lore tab mentions the manipulation of space-time too. Because of this I was thinking that void weapons should get Quantum Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation.

The OP should also be updated to reflect the current discussion.

@Archaron

Guns don't actually rely on the Light for their elements. While Ikora is Lightless her gun still has the solar element and in the Saint-14 mission his gun still has the void element after his Light has been drained.

 

[Archaron]

@WHYNAUT

You did not understand the point. The weapons have special effects because of their element, and that they were forged using the elemental power of light, I did not say that if the guardian has power, the weapon will have it as a necessity, but as it was forged using light, its characteristics came from the light (void, arc or solar) fit as abilities of the element itself.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Well refer to what I just posted then.

 

[Archaron]

@WHYNAUT

I agree with what you suggest, but I would like to add that these skills derive from the weapon being of void element, and this should be something that even without the weapon, the guardians can also copy.

We have the example of the voidwalker, which is not bound by the laws of space and time, and the graviton lance that also shows influence in space and time. The tractor cannon itself operates on a void basis, and is also said to be a gravity propulsor beam. Quantis Rhee, a nightstalker, also succeeded in creating black holes, much like the graviton lance, using the void.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Yes, we already agreed on those abilities.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump.

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump

 

[WHYNAUT]

Bump.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

For Solar Light, here is the stuff that was agreed on and being discussed (straight from discord): "How would this look for Solar light?: Fire Manipulation, Heat Manipulation, Energy Manipulation, Matter Manipulation via Starfire Protocol, Radiation Manipulation via Starfire Protocol, Explosion Manipulation, Soul Manipulation for Sunbreakers, Plasma Manipulation via Starfire Protocol

And for Solar Light temperatures: "For a quick summary: To a Sunsinger, solar winds can cool them down, and solar winds can reach a temperature of 1 million Celsius, so a Sunsingers flames have to be hotter than that for Solar winds to cool them down. This would also scale to other Solar Classes since they can burn and harm Sunsingers with their Solar Light." And "The Starfire Protocol can enhance a Warlocks Solar Light to the point that it allows them to perform nuclear fusion, which requires a temperature of 100 million Kelvin to achieve. So Starfire Protocol Warlocks would scale to that."

 

[WHYNAUT]

I think we should first agree on whether Void weapons also get Quantum Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation and Gravity Manipulation before we discuss the other elements. There's also the fact that non of this ahs been evaluated by staff yet.

 

[AkuAkuAkuma]

Agree with their addition, void of contradiction atop proving consistent in game and lore with weapon functionality.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

Fair enough, just wanted to drop that there. Also I believe that all void weapons should get Quantum and Space-Time manipulation, and possibly gravity manip because of the basic nature of void energy, but since there are weapons that are specifically made with the intent of manipulating gravity like the tractor cannon and Graviton lance, gravity manip might be a more specialized aspect of void. So basically every void weapon gets Quantum Manipulation, Space-Time Manipulation, and possibly Gravity Manipulation unless the weapon is all about gravity where then they will get a flat Gravity Manipulation instead of possibly. Of course that's what I believe.

 

[WHYNAUT]

That seems fair.

 

[Archaron]

@Cinos15

Most specialize in gravity, only specific ones can directly affect space-time, not something that all void weapons can possess, but gravity is already an aspect of void, so it's natural that they all have it.