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Wannabe Nasuverse Tier 0 Wank CRT(Re:Creators)

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Simple Tier 0 Upgrade, Nothing much to say other than that, If accepted, changes should be held off as another thread will be made to discuss the profile changes/additions and character scalings.

Argument

The Series was written by Rei Hiroe and the televised anime series was directed by Ai Aoki. The latter is quite relevant as he was involved in many projects relating to the Nasuverse. Including but not limited to directing and semi-writing The garden of sinners. This is infact significant as alot of the things im going to talk about in this is creepily similar to the Nasuverse cosmology. This gives us contextual backing for the scale

Now getting into the actual scaling stuff, i will be referencing the philosophy known as Neoplatonism. There are quite a few reasons as to why we should understand the series through their world view. With the first one being sufficient parallels between their ideals such as emanationism, a principle of reincarnation, and the pre-existence and immortality of the soul. Which exactly aligns with their beliefs. More of these similarities will be shown but not mentioned. The point of this is to outline the structural isomorphism between the two in order to properly classify the series' scaling and thereby how its functionally the same. This gives us philosophical backing for the ideas presented in the series. Note that this is in no way an assertion that the whole series is neoplatonic as that is not necessary and quoting Ultima:

A verse does not need to create a perfect reproduction of any of the above accounts in order to qualify for the tier, as long as all of the sufficient conditions for it are met
Another thing to note is the negative aspect taken towards ontology. They start with the epistemic doubt of certain phenomena then existential disregard and explores the triviality of the senses and finally ontology and solipsism, The only key takeaway here is that ontology is structurally approached through skepticism and that due to its coherency, it gives us epistemic backing for the ideas presented here as it explicitly shows that the author atleast has some knowledge on the topic
Imaginative Force as the second principle, emanates reality through self-contemplation. This principle however isnt a regular one, rather its a proper unity. The extent of this unity is that, as per the scans, Imagination is the unity of creator, created and viewer. This process is for the actualization of storyworlds. Consider this, the real world itself is a story which was thought of by imagination, this entails that by having to go through the unification process, the creator part of the unity during that point of reference was itself, This means that each part is analogically identical or fully represents the whole while having real distinctions(as plotinus would say "each is all"). The reason i am arguing analogical identity rather than strict is that we know for a fact that the distinctions are real and not conceptual. While it could be interpreted as strict identity due to it not being impossible in a fictional setting while keeping distinctions real, it isnt that relevant since both entail that imagination is fully actualized and thereby pure act(Or IS being) and the series is already structurally isomorphic with neoplatonic concepts which uses analogical identity. This already qualifies it for tier 0, however it lacks 1 trait, Primacy(more on this in the next section). Due to this i propose it qualify for the next best tier, High 1-A+ (Specifically, embodying the framework)
This section is to discuss the infinite abyss, which i regard as the first principle. We know its the first principle as its the thing that emanated imagination. Its the "One" before the intelligible "One" as the dots imply unity/oneness, it cannot be caused since there is nothing prior to it to cause it(funnily enough this could be taken as extreme apophaticism). It would by proxy be the source of all things and its fitting that its also the teleological end of all things, with it being described by Altair as a "beautiful" ending. The Infinite abyss, is an abyss(obviously), but this entails that it lacks information(and is also prior to it/beyond it). Information can be both intelligible determination and ontological determination, with the former being strictly within imaginative force. Since essence is just determination(in the broadest sense), it eventually implies multiplicity and being. By lacking this, the infinite abyss cannot be classified as a being and thereby it cannot be predicated, as that would imply limitations such as participating in being. And given that its before imaginative forces unity, it does not have the distinction between oneness and manyness Any reference in the series describing the abyss is purely analogical.

Summary
  • Imagination/Imaginative force is the totality and ground of all creation. it has parts with real distinctions, however each part fully reflects the whole. That shows that its fully actualized as there is nothing it "can" be since it already is. Being fully actualized means that it is being which qualifies for Tier 0, but it was caused so it instantly loses any hopes to be that tier, hence the proposal High 1-A+
  • The infinite abyss is beyond imagination and hence all its qualities, such as unity, it lacks and is beyond information which is akin to essences, if something has an essence it participates in being, therefore the abyss cant be a being nor being itself being for it is beyond being and uncaused (there is nothing before it to cause it), therefore Tier 0

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Can you tell me which part of Neoplatonism is coherent with solipsism?
Never said it was. the whole solipsism bit was just that. a bit. There is no cosmological implications from it. But if u must know both are derivations of idealism
 
IMG-5040.webp
 
Hmmmmm.....

We do know that there's something called the Imaginative Force/Infinite Abyss which is the source of all in the verse and from where all worlds (including the Real World) are perceived and controlled as stories since all of them are narratives in their true nature.

But what I'm trying to understand is how did you get tier High 1-A+ and 0 (along with their distinction), when they'd require significant amount of evidence instead of just equating them with certain philosophies/theories.
 
I think the funniest anti-feat here is the prospect that the power of Creation is something transferable, which is a very big issue because Soul explicitly produces of things without exhausting itself. Plotinus would analogize it like this:
IMG-7517.jpg

Like a geometrician drawing lines as they contemplate, Soul also does the same, except that they simply “fall off” whilst Soul remains in-itself. For Motion is the activity and expressed principle of Soul, but Soul intrinsically remains in-itself and self-contemplates.

In fact, all things contemplate, even stuff like plants. And as such, they produce—that is the activity of contemplation itself and nature (the productive part of the expressed principle), which all things possess.

This is an issue because the scans don’t portray production as anything of the sort. “Stories” just seem to be something that emerge when the Creators, the Created and the Readers come together, give it some meaning and then the world creates it.

Also, the fact that Creation is delimited to the Real World only is also a very big issue because Soul is within all things, because all things contemplate and produce [further contemplation]. But if the Created cannot produce, then it cannot be that its power is unlimited and all-present. Thus if Creation is not immediate to all beings, then it cannot hold the status of Soul.
IMG-7518.jpg
 
I think the funniest anti-feat here is the prospect that the power of Creation is something transferable, which is a very big issue because Soul explicitly produces of things without exhausting itself. Plotinus would analogize it like this:
It isnt, the scan is just using word play. We know multiple characters can use it simultaneously and Its literally not possible if the thing handing it off isnt something that has the capability to do it. Also something being "Handed off" doesnt necessarily mean loss, it could for example be due to an overflow of anything.


Also, the fact that Creation is delimited to the Real World only is also a very big issue because Soul is within all things, because all things contemplate and produce [further contemplation]. But if the Created cannot produce, then it cannot be that its power is unlimited and all-present. Thus if Creation is not immediate to all beings, then it cannot
They can


This is an issue because the scans don’t portray production as anything of the sort. “Stories” just seem to be something that emerge when the Creators, the Created and the Readers come together, give it some meaning and then the world creates it.
Stories are just intelligible articulation people come up with and share with other people. and if the story is approved the possibility of storyworlds get actualised by the power of creation. I fail to see why this exact method of production is relevant to imaginations full actuality.
 
It isnt, the scan is just using word play. We know multiple characters can use it simultaneously and Its literally not possible if the thing handing it off isnt something that has the capability to do it.
So not all characters possess the power of creation?

What part of using information to create a world is coherent with Soul’s production?

Stories are just intelligible articulation people come up with and share with other people. and if the story is approved the possibility of storyworlds get actualised by the power of creation. I fail to see why this exact method of production is relevant to imaginations full actuality.
I’m saying because this isn’t coherent with Neoplatonic procession. There’s no “approval” process because all things hold the expressed principle derived from contemplation, and then activity and production follow in accordance with it. Your description is just something that uses the relations of externals (or of varying activities) to actualize something.
 
So not all characters possess the power of creation?
Directly no, indirectly yes

What part of using information to create a world is coherent with Soul’s production?
I’m saying because this isn’t coherent with Neoplatonic procession. There’s no “approval” process because all things hold the expressed principle derived from contemplation, and then activity and production follow in accordance with it. Your description is just something that uses the relations of externals (or of varying activities) to actualize something.
Yes i know this, which is why i explicitly stated, the whole series isnt fully neoplatonic. the emanation bit is literally just to clarify how unity can have multiplicity.
 
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