'Weapon Users' Removal

[Jinx666]

Hey, so thought i'd make a straightforward enough request to delete something

Ive come across the category 'Weapon Users' and think it should be deleted (using a bot edit ofc) for the following reasons

1. Too many characters dont have it when they should: The category currently belongs to 3255 profiles, which is obviously not every single character that has ever used a weapon before. Its a bit too tedious to correctthis
2. Vague: Most characters on this wiki have a 'weapon' in some form. It doesnt really narrow anything down nicely
3. Redundant: There are many, many categories that separate characters by their TYPE of weapons already. This is much better at finding profile connections. There is already a category called 'Weapon Masters' too that is kind of this same idea, but actually focuses on characters proficient with using their weapons. and obviously 'Weapon Users' would be on all of these pages too, yet Weapon Masters has 11205 reps.

Not a big issue but merely a QoL deletion that i reckon is worth it.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I kind of agree with either nuking weapon users or nuking all the sub categories; sword users, knife users, polearm users, axe users, bow users, gun users, ect.

 

[Jinx666]

I kind of agree with either nuking weapon users or nuking all the sub categories; sword users, knife users, polearm users, axe users, bow users, gun users, ect.

Why would you want to nuke the subcategories? Those actually separate the type of weapon. Theres a few that are samey but theyre way better at dividing characters by their actual CHOICE of weapon.

Meanwhile 'Weapon Users' is just vague and not even utilized properly

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was only offering alternatives, I basically agree having just weapon users and all those other ones is redundant. But I lean towards just getting weapon users category deleted.

 

[Jinx666]

bump

 

[ItsMeat]

Shouldn't this be a staff thread?

Also, I am neutral on this, in matches against opponents such as Gilgamesh(Fate), Erza Scarlet(Fairy Tail), Byakuya Kuchiki(Bleach), or several Naruto characters that may spam weapons, for example, the mastery of certain weapons you can just pick up from what they've throen at you can really make the difference

 

[Kaydee1648]

I agree with the deletion of weapon users but keeping the subcategories since they’re more niche.

Also, yes, this should be a staff thread
@TWILIGHT-OP can you move it?

 

[Jinx666]

Also, I am neutral on this, in matches against opponents such as Gilgamesh(Fate), Erza Scarlet(Fairy Tail), Byakuya Kuchiki(Bleach), or several Naruto characters that may spam weapons, for example, the mastery of certain weapons you can just pick up from what they've throen at you can really make the difference

Then thats better suited to 'Weapon Masters', but Weapon Users doesnt cover people who just have a lot of weapons tbh. You can just list every weapon they have tbh

Even then thats not being utilised properly and there would be thousands of pages to cover to add it

 

[Tllmbrg]

This seems impractical to apply.

 

[Jinx666]

This seems impractical to apply.

How?
It can be mass removed using an editing bot, no one is going to remove it manually from over 3K pages

 

[Antvasima]

I personally don't mind if this category continues to exist, but definitely don't think that we should remove the sub-categories.

 

[Tllmbrg]

How?
It can be mass removed using an editing bot, no one is going to remove it manually from over 3K pages

But you do need to manually remove and then see what pages you need to swap the category rather than just nuke stuff.

 

[Damage3245]

I think it's fine for that category to be removed. We already have categories for characters by specific weapons. We don't need a generic "Weapon Users" category for users of any weapons.

 

[Jinx666]

But you do need to manually remove and then see what pages you need to swap the category rather than just nuke stuff.

swap the category?

 

[Jinx666]

bump

 

[The_King_of_Prudence]

swap the category?

Tlmburg wants to make sure they have the correct category afterwards, rather than leaving no indication at all.

 

[Random-Helper323]

One thing to think of with removal of categories like this is what about weapons that don't fit into any of the sub-categories.

 

[Jinx666]

Tlmburg wants to make sure they have the correct category afterwards, rather than leaving no indication at all.

There isnt a correct category to replace it with in the first place tbh. If 'Weapon Masters' is missing, then either its just a mistake or the character isnt skilled enough to be called a master at it

One thing to think of with removal of categories like this is what about weapons that don't fit into any of the sub-categories.

A category for any missing weapon type can be easily made with no strings attached or requirements (other than being sensical i guess to accomodate), that or it doesnt really matter if they dont have a category for their extremely niche weapon that only they or an extremely small minority would have.

 

[Random-Helper323]

A category for any missing weapon type can be easily made with no strings attached or requirements (other than being sensical i guess to accomodate), that or it doesnt really matter if they dont have a category for their extremely niche weapon that only they or an extremely small minority would have.

The problem isn't one niche weapon. The problem is lots of different kinds of niche weapons. Fiction has made up some pretty weird weapons after all.

 

[Jinx666]

The problem isn't one niche weapon. The problem is lots of different kinds of niche weapons. Fiction has made up some pretty weird weapons after all.

Well yeah but why would we need to have categories for them specifically if theyre that niche? Its not like 'Weapon Users' was made to fit this purpose either, it was just made for general weaponry which is just redundant.

If not, then theres no category which isn't that much of a big deal

 

[Jinx666]

Bump

So how many staff votes are needed now?

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Hmm ,
I won't mind if this category remain, but if the majority prefers to remove it, I won’t object.

 

[Jinx666]

I mean i guess then its a decision to do nothing about it, or get rid of it. OP has all the reasons its confusing and midhandled so is there genuinely any benefit to keeping it around?

 

[Random-Helper323]

As I said above, niche or improvised weapons are something it covers.

 

[Jinx666]

Yeah but
A) Thats not what the category is used for.
B) Separate categories could always be made for these niche weapons. If theyre somehow too niche, and dont go under something that could be made into a category then whats the need to include them?
C) Weapon Masters exists if you need a category for unconventional use of non-standard weapons

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yeah but
A) Thats not what the category is used for.

If it covers all weapons, then that's what it's being used for.

B) Separate categories could always be made for these niche weapons. If theyre somehow too niche, and dont go under something that could be made into a category then whats the need to include them?

Because all those niche weapons collectively might add up to a significant number. Not individually.

C) Weapon Masters exists if you need a category for unconventional use of non-standard weapons

That's for the ability Weapon Mastery, which is already applied way too easily. We can't just apply weapon mastery tags simply for wielding a cue stick, a tennis racket, a golf club, a frying pan, a two by four, a necklace with a sharp pendant, a nail, a chair, a belt, a rope with a weight tied to it, a stick, a piece of broken glass, and all the many more weapons that fit this category but don't fit any specific category we have.

 

[Jinx666]

It isnt. theres only about 3K pages using it for just general stuff.

Unless you wanna fix all of this and add the category exclusively to ones without representation, then it feels more practical to just scrap it entirely.

If they're using an unconventional weapon effectively enough then it would go decently under Weapon Masters
If this is just regarding random secluded pages like all those live-action ones being made, then i dont think it matters if they're missing a category for their super niche weapon tbh. A lot of that you put down already have categories tied to them (and could easily have them) also.

Idk it just feels like we should declutter as best as we can. Categories that are on thousands of pages and vague just dont need to be there. It looks a lot more professional to be rid of them when we can (and with bot edits, we can)

 

[Jinx666]

Bump

 

[Antvasima]

I still strongly oppose this revision. "Weapon Users" is a fully legitimate category for characters that are proficient with weapons, but it can be removed for the ones that have only used weapons temporarily and are inexperienced with them.

 

[Random-Helper323]

I still strongly oppose this revision. "Weapon Users" is a fully legitimate category for characters that are proficient with weapons, but it can be removed for the ones that have only used weapons temporarily and are inexperienced with them.

It's generally used for characters that use weapons regularly but don't necessarily have weapon mastery.

 

[Kaydee1648]

"Weapon Users" is a fully legitimate category for characters that are proficient with weapons

That’s Weapon Masters. Weapon Users, on the other hand, have their varieties covered by subcategories, so they don’t really have much specific relevance.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I suppose that "Weapon Masters" seems like a much more relevant category then, but I do not think that "Weapon Users" seems to cause any harm either.

 

[Jinx666]

Well, I suppose that "Weapon Masters" seems like a much more relevant category then, but I do not think that "Weapon Users" seems to cause any harm either.

It doesnt really need to cause harm, but its a category with over 3K page representation over something as vague as 'Weapon Users', that is then also beat by a lot woth 'Weapon Masters'

It's just redundant. That doesnt meant it harms anything, but theres no real reason to keep it either. It serves no purpose and theres no way to manually give it more proficiency

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I think that it serves as a collective head category for lots of other specific weapon categories, so it is useful for wiki organisation purposes at least.

 

[Jinx666]

Well, I think that it serves as a collective head category for lots of other specific weapon categories, so it is useful for wiki organisation purposes at least.

It cant be a collective head category if it has ~8K less entries than one of its subcategories.

If it was meant to be, then it failed and theres no worthwhile way to make it a success again. Unless we wanna rename Weapon Masters to 'Weapon Users' (dont think so) then It is also way too vague. It feels like its just an easy trimming the fat option

 

[Random-Helper323]

Well, I suppose that "Weapon Masters" seems like a much more relevant category then, but I do not think that "Weapon Users" seems to cause any harm either.

The weapon user category is sort of a catch all tag for characters with weapons, most likely meant to cover all weapons including niche ones that don't have a category. It does seem at least somewhat useful to me.

 

[Antvasima]

The weapon user category is sort of a catch all tag for characters with weapons, most likely meant to cover all weapons including niche ones that don't have a category. It does seem at least somewhat useful to me.

Yes, agreed. It seems unnecessary to remove it.

 

[Jinx666]

It still isnt being used that way either though...

I was never pitching this in that its 'necessary' but feels like as the wiki starts developing better to new modern standards we can also lose a lot of the redundant stuff. A failed category on 3K pages just seems easy and less confusing

 

[Random-Helper323]

Yes, agreed. It seems unnecessary to remove it.

It seems more useful to just add it to more pages it applies to. It's just many users don't.

 

[Antvasima]

It seems more useful to just add it to more pages it applies to. It's just many users don't.

Yes, agreed. Cleanup work regarding this issue might be a good idea.