• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Celestial_Pegasus

VS Battles
Administrator
18,725
5,903

General Revisions​


Cracking


Time Manipulation and Causality Manipulation​


The incomplete version of Cracking used by Hohenheim, could tug on the threads of causality, and tamper with time

"If people were to know what death is and never fear it, then they will never have their time to live stolen from them."

Bravely, he spoke one word at a time.

For the sake of those who came after him.

"Is this for someone?"

"Indeed."

"Have you said this to someone?"

"...Of course."

Silently...

Hohenheim raises a hand. A mysterious distortion of space followed by a faint luminescent phenomena that would later be called Cracking Light hundreds of years later is the reason why he was called the Great Paracelsus.

This was because he adored the illusions that once existed in the world, and it is for that reason that he became the last magician who cut and shattered them with the sword of discovery and redefinition. As his hand shines in a pale blue and white light, that which illuminated the people with the stars in a time they were without light and had not the blessing of fire, he thought not of his past life, not of the purgatory of steel, not of the end of the cursed light...but to the countless tomorrows where the descendants of people other than himself will live and grow. Of a future world where people will speak of love. What if such a thing existed?

"Hm. Interesting."

"That thing's" mechanical face makes a smile.

"Given the right methods and theory, it is certainly somewhat possible. Even you small people can tug on the threads of causality. I see. The idea behind it is to reproduce it into a mathematical formula."

It was not a smile. "That thing's" face was fake.

Wordlessly, "that thing" told him to give it a try. That is if he can really do it. That is why he chose this place to die.

"Even I might be able to banish you, Time King."

He was overflowing with light.

He was filled with light.

However, it didn't go through.

"Unfortunately, everything but the idea itself is incomplete. Nonetheless, this is interesting. That is why such genius is fortunate."

"Silence."

Hohenheim, who was even called the Alchemy King, was unable to truly master what would later be called the Phenomena Equation.

The first step is the conversion of matter. Ultimately, it was impossible for his human brain functions to process the enormous calculation of equations required to transform the world, to rewrite the world, and tamper with time. Thus, this was why Hohenheim's end was here. With the cathedral completely burned down, with his whole body shattered to pieces by the sneering "thing" with not even a single particle left behind.-Shiei Sona-Nyl: If you…

Underground Residents

Abstract Existence (Illusions, Dreams, Stories)​


Lily already has, but as seen on her profile, she is stated to be similar to the Underground, so if she has it, everyone in the Underground should as well. Lily is a story, and because of that she can also travel into stories (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, The Red Tears of Huitzilopochtli), and also observe the tales/stories of others (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, The Red Tears of Huitzilopochtli).

The story traveling, and observation only applies to Lily, because she became an independent Cracking being after leaving the Underground, but still, being stories is something that Underground Residents should have.

The Underground is a formless dream of the past, an illusion of things long gone (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7). Residents are stated to be illusions, shadows, dreams (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7)

Limited Cracking​


Everyone in the Underground writes poems (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6), at times it can even be a source of power (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6). As it turns out, these poems are a way of giving feelings form, manipulating the laws that make up the world itself, Cracking (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6).

It's limited here, because it only gives power at times, Residents don't normally freely wield Cracking, with the exception of people like Jerusha.

Messengers/Edison/A/Lily​


Plot Manipulation​


This follows from the Underground and it's residents being stories, if that's the case, Edison is the one who created them (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7), so essentially he can create stories.

Messengers are the very laws of the Underground, they directly shape it with their deaths, leading to the destruction of the Underground itself, and have control over Cracking which gives the Underground it's form. So they would basically be the embodiment's of the laws of a story, while also being able to manipulate the story/Underground itself

A and subsequently Lily would get resistance to plot manipulation for resisting Messenger abilities, and I suppose we would assume Lily can come back after her story was erased due to coming back from Edison erasing her?

Kind of forgot about it but the Underground being a dream, would also lead to similar things such as dream manipulation and resistance to it.

Messengers​


Reality Warping​


Kind of ignored this since they would already have it due to having Cracking, but since we are listing it for other Cracking Beings such as Critters separate from Cracking, we should do it for Messengers too. Messengers are stated to erode reality (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6), same exact description Critters have, not surprising, they are also stated to distort the world around them (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6).

Information Manipulation (Type 2)​


Again something they would already have due to Cracking, but we can list it separate. They are stated multiple times (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6) to do metaphysical (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 1) and even conceptual destruction (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 5). This metaphysical/conceptual destruction is what caused all life to vanish into the Underground (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 6), which is nothingness, with nothingness in verse, being a lack of data/information fundamental to all things


Abilities​


Lily

Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Type 3)​


Previous CRT already accepted that anyone who can enter the Bar, should have madness resistance, was an oversight that I forgot about Lily, the evidence already existed she was fine in the Bar, recent translations of side stories, reminded me.

Lily doesn't go insane in the Bar

---A dark place.

---Jazz was being played in this dimly lit place.

Some may come to mind of a temple. Like it was from Greece or Rome, Northern Europe, India, or even Egypt. Or it was a temple of sunlight and sacrifice left behind to the Southern New World. It wasn't quite any of them, but it was something akin to all of them.

Some may even feel a hint of darkness in its dimness.

However, none in the dark bar ever thought of it. They thought and felt nothing of it.

For instance, something small, weak, and vulnerable that would have wandered in here would have thought "Oh, I see" even as they found their spirit being overwhelmed trying to bring down their fear.

Of course, Lily the Stranger would have came across such a lost being and tried to prevent that from happening. Lily was in a corner of the Bar.

She had seen the master behind the counter and conversed with them.

She had a brief exchange with the three who entered the store.-Sona Nyl: 1909 - Rosy Mask

A


Resistance to Madness Manipulation (Type 3)​

Likewise with Lily, shows no signs of going instantly insane in the Bar

That's right. She wasn't the only one.

It's not just her body that's causing the logical discrepancies and physical contradictions.
I, myself, am also in this situation.

It can never be written down in a "diary". If this is a contradiction and discrepancy that arose from my perception, I can only keep it in my memory, in my records.

At night. I, who am not supposed to have dreams, again...
Catching her sleeping, I see the impossible in my mind's "eye". That night, I "saw" where I "was".

...I was in a dimly lit corner of a bar with jazz music playing.


"Customer."

Said a gentleman sitting on a stool.
"What would you like?"

Said someone in white behind the counter.
"..."

A trio of people at the table stared at me, glowing in white.
"Fools."

A black man at a table on the other side said.
"Yes, master."

A machine said something.
It was like me. Not in appearance, but something else.
"You shouldn't torment him."

A Shogoth whispered softly to the gentleman on the stool.


I imagine I was in some kind of sacred place. Even though my database only provides, at best, the myths of the Southern New Continent besides Greece, Rome, Scandinavia, Egypt, and India.


I sense a hint of darkness in the air. It was terrifying. I am grateful that I do not have any organs to feel fear.


The sound flowing through the blackness is jazz. It's a piano. A new melody that once emerged in New York City, blends in well with the sound of ice in the gentleman's tipping glass.


I was in a corner of the bar in the dark.


"Very interesting. How nice that we're all here at this time."
"What a coincidence."
"True. Strange. These people are fated to be together."
"..." The white glows glared.
"They're getting pretty cautious of you. What have you done in the past?"
"Quiet."


When the black man turned his gaze, the white lights quickly disappeared.
Were they eaten and devoured? Or did they escape?-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Dream Wandering

Invulnerability​


In the VN, A's Critters, which he summons from him shadows, are stated to be impervious (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 2) and indestructible (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 3). Never payed attention to these statements, until I saw this statement from one of the side stories:

"You are permitted to do anything you want."

"I don't understand that," Said Lily. "Tell me something that I can understand."

"Your radiance is quite young. Yes, the consumption of alcohol is quite discouraged. For instance, it was tailored to young children..."

"But I'm not a child though!?"

As expected, Lily was indignant, thinking it was rude of them to not refer to her as a lady. But when she glared at him, it was the same as usual. The conductor's mask-like face had no expression, which made Lily's mood even worse. But it wasn't like he was truly emotionless either. He truly did think and feel something about her. Perhaps they weren't emotions like the ones Humans have, but that didn't mean there wasn't anything in them. He just had no expression on him---as if he were saying "Like a machine, I do not feel".

---Wait a minute. If he can do it, so can I!

"Do you kiss children?"

---I remember asking him something like that before.

"I'm an adult, right. An adult. Is that right?"

"..."

"A."

"..."

"Turn this way."

"..."

"Hey. I'm telling you to turn this way so I can hit you."

"Violence is not permitted. Above all, your hands will hurt. My body is sturdy. Though the conceptual armor have fallen off when we moved out of the Underground World, my defense is still effective."

"Conceptual armor...ugh, it's fine. A cocktail is a cocktail. Are there any cocktails that I can drink?"-Sona Nyl: Cocktail

As seen here A states his conceptual armor fell off when he left the Underground, meaning while there he had that, this is referring to his shadows/Critters.

So to summarize A's shadows are indestructible/impervious to damage due to being conceptual armor, thus can't be damage unless concept manipulation is used, which as it turns out Messengers do have that, so it makes sense why Messengers can harm them, though I would note, the defensive capabilities of A's shadows is greater than his Critters, not even the most powerful Messenger can destroy it (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7), meanwhile his Critters have been destroyed by Messengers, after enduring wounds across multiple battles with the Messengers.


Edison


Cracking​


His profile needs to make it more clear he has all Cracking related abilities. There are scans already on his profile which prove he wields the power (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7) of Cracking, and it's power comes from him (Shiei no Sona-Nyl, Chapter 7). There is more evidence to this, it's stated Edison brought the Cracking Effect to the world, and relayed its secrets to the Society

[Observations have shown that the increase in dense particles is temporary and may disappear completely on the spot]


[Additionally, the sightings of a Cracking Being manifesting has yet to be reported]


[The Scholar Society...West India Company...the Society, are scanning for similarities and resemblances like the Inganock case in the region of Kadath]


[There have been no signs of the reappearance of Grimm Grimm detected so far]


[Neither the Scholar Society nor the states Engines have yet to secure a Cracking Being]


[Illusions do not exist. It is something only humans dream of]


[It could be factually said that there is no real, substantive, or secured case of a Cracking Being that has yet been reported, reinforcing this universal truth as fact.]


[Lord Edison, the man who brought the Cracking Effect to the world, relaying its secrets only to the Society, Foundation, and Grand Duke Astaire, disappeared several years ago.]


[The disappearance of him and New York proves this illusion to reality]


[But if the modern fantasy is non-existent and unevenly distributed--]-Shiei no Sona Nyl: Dream Wandering

In fact it's stated that Cracking is bestowed by Edison, and Cracking brings about the work of God, this makes sense since it's already stated Cracking is Edison's power which he is sharing with humanity

Nightingale: After all, my power is but an imitation. The Other here is just mere light and shadow.

Nightingale: But by weaving them into a singular shape, that little one becomes an exception. They gain the functional ability of a Critter.

Nightingale: By obtaining basic skills such as being invincible and panic, that little one becomes a Critter.

Nightingale: An old fantasy that just so happens to be called Will-o-Wasp...

Nightingale: It fits with my Art over light and shadow. What I'm doing is merely paradoxical.

Tesla: Understood. I see. It all makes sense.

Tesla: I have one more question. Is the shadow side something similar to the Black King?


The Black King.

There was such a repulsive sound to it.


The principle bestowed by them was Cracking, which brought about the work of God.

That was the common belief in the Society.-Ourai no Gahkthun:Shining Nights



Speed​


The Dark Gang


Average Human to Athletic Human​


Depending on the individual, The Dark Gang are just as fast as humans, if not faster

"I'm not one to brag, but my shoulders are strong."

The one-eyed man, hidden by his hat, smiles like a shark.

I see. Ruth was now a little impressed.

His shoulders certainly looked strong. No matter how he looked at it, the man would have to wear the glove on his left hand. In that case, the pincher would have to use the other arm or hand. That is to say, the right hand that was made of metal which was certainly strong and sturdy. His shoulders may be strong, but in the Underground World, body parts that become iron generally become clumsier to use compared to living flesh. It was a simple principle. Flesh was soft. Iron was extremely hard. Things that become too hard can't be moved so flexibly. It's why the Moles, whose bodies have turned into metal, cannot move so easily.

However, there are exceptions to this.

For instance, the Dark Gang.

Despite their whole bodies turning into iron, they're known to move at around the same speed as humans if not faster depending on the individual, although they were somewhat slow. There was a story of someone with horns capable of moving three times faster, but that was impossible.

Anywho. In any case.

The hat man said he can manipulate his metal just as well, if not better than the ones enchanted by the Witch of the West. That was something to be impressed by. Ruth-B's expression tightens. Even so, he couldn't conceal his joy of being able to play with someone else---even if it were just catch, to use a bat and glove, he couldn't help but feel the smile creeping from the corners of his mouth in his eyes.-Sona Nyl: 1907


Durability​


A​


Athlete level​


A has a sturdy body, which causes those who might punch him to harm themselves

"You are permitted to do anything you want."

"I don't understand that," Said Lily. "Tell me something that I can understand."

"Your radiance is quite young. Yes, the consumption of alcohol is quite discouraged. For instance, it was tailored to young children..."

"But I'm not a child though!?"

As expected, Lily was indignant, thinking it was rude of them to not refer to her as a lady. But when she glared at him, it was the same as usual. The conductor's mask-like face had no expression, which made Lily's mood even worse. But it wasn't like he was truly emotionless either. He truly did think and feel something about her. Perhaps they weren't emotions like the ones Humans have, but that didn't mean there wasn't anything in them. He just had no expression on him---as if he were saying "Like a machine, I do not feel".

---Wait a minute. If he can do it, so can I!

"Do you kiss children?"

---I remember asking him something like that before.

"I'm an adult, right. An adult. Is that right?"

"..."

"A."

"..."

"Turn this way."

"..."

"Hey. I'm telling you to turn this way so I can hit you."

"Violence is not permitted. Above all, your hands will hurt. My body is sturdy. Though the conceptual armor have fallen off when we moved out of the Underground World, my defense is still effective."

"Conceptual armor...ugh, it's fine. A cocktail is a cocktail. Are there any cocktails that I can drink?"-Sona Nyl: Cocktail


And that should be all for the revisions, mostly straight forward, I can see plot manipulation being controversial, not really a 100% on it myself. But looking for opinions.
 
Last edited:
Agree to most of this.

Yeah, IDK about the plot manip part exactly.

It probably isn't wrong sorta, since he not only created the underground world but also has even restarted it too to who knows how many times it's been done, meaning the people's stories have been repeating over and over. The space itself is also what even allows Lily to be born, being born as the story and shadow of someone who wasn't even there when New York fell yet has became a part of its setting to explore its world.

But IDK...kinda seems like a stretch I think? Really hard to say in spite of what Edison made of the place and all.
 
Yea, it's why I am iffy too, it' s not plot manipulation in the sense of some explicit examples like idk having some sort of pen or pencil writing on a page, which is where the characters are on.

Lily's dream walking happens when she is asleep, dreaming, she then travels to other worlds, other tales, and these tales are basically events that occurred within the timeline, you could say she is watching other people's/world's life/events, not really like characters within a fictional story or something.
 
Since nobody has showed up, added a couple things I forgot, reality warping and info manipulation type 2.
 
Man nobody wants to say anything, not even the staff xD

Not surprising to see them also have it too. If Critters have the ability to erode reality, Messengers naturally have it too. Info hax goes hand in hand with the conceptual/metaphysical level hax so agree.

Though if anything, wouldn't this grant A (and Lily by proxy of the former) resistance to info manip also for taking their attacks or not quite really?
 
Though if anything, wouldn't this grant A (and Lily by proxy of the former) resistance to info manip also for taking their attacks or not quite really?
Yes it would, the Messengers metaphysical attacks, happen same time as their physical attacks, so you not only have to be durable enough to tank it, but also have metaphysical resistances.
 
Last edited:
To restate my opinion, after relooking at things; Underground Residents are stated to be illusions, nothingness, and dreams, stories weren't mentioned in that scan.

Stories only come about after Sona-Nyl, and imo seem more to mean dreams, the stories/tales Lily sees are when she is asleep, dream walking, and she is perceiving events that are happening or happened before, nothing is really said about her seeing characters in a story or anything.

The statement about Lily being a story, the next sentence says Lily is what someone wanted to be, which imo you can take to mean she is what someone dreamed of being.

So yea imo stories=dream, and plot manipulation isn't a thing, should be dream manipulation.
 
Kek, you called it lol.

And that would make sense. The WN really just iterates that as her "going to many worlds, to many stories" which is just a way of Lily dream walking that you put nicely.

At least that's cleared up more.

Would have said if them being "stories" would be an AE type thing for them, but if stories just mean to refer to a dream of what someone wants to be, that's marked out.
 
Ok, so we got 2 staff here, and already pinged a few, who didn't show up.

I think this is ok to apply.
 
@Celestial_Pegasus

That's also fair too.

Also, you had the name "Golden King" put for Lily and A for their resistance towards the Bar's madness inducement lol.

Other than that nitpick, that should be good to go for this thread.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top