What do you all think about Scarlet Witch MoM ?

[Iloveyou1]

All about I remember her feats
Attacking

• Wong said she could annihilated the cosmos.
• Doctor strange said she will enslave the entire multiverse if she got America's power.
• She can summon some creatures across multiverse and control them with witchcraft (Runes).
• She can project her consciousness to her body in another universe and possess it (Limited Dimensional travel ??).
• Reality warping

- Erasing Blackbolt's mouth (Biological Manipulation ?)
- Changing Mr. fantastic into some sort of pasta (lol I'm not sure what is this feat between RW or using Telekinesis tear him apart)
- Healing (When she escapes from mirror dimension. It looks like she's healing herself)
- Turning apple orchard to the darkness red orchard (I'm not sure)

• Blocking Doctor Strange's magic and erasing the Sling.
• She erases (or disintegrates) a sorcerer.
• She erases (or nullifies) Captain Marvel's power while protecting herself from photon blast.
• She kills Prof X in her mind and He is really died.
• She forces and uses America's power while holding her with one hand.
• She disintegrates Defender Strange's corpse and It makes 616 Doctor Strange's body which in another universe hurt.
• Danmaku (She's attacking sorcerer's shield with many hex blast at a time.)
• She said creating another hex was easy.
• she destroys the Darkhold in every universe.

Defending

• Her body was fired by Magic cannon but she's got no any damage.
• Her forcefield is strong enough to protect her from photon blast.

This is all I can remember.
What do you all think about her in MoM key ? Just want to discuss
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[Ayrandros]

She tanked America punches without using magic. She's not longer a glass canon.

 

[GyroNutz]

She was also able to survive magic blasts from Agatha Harkness in WandaVision, before she became the Scarlet Witch.

 

[XXKINGXX69]

Trash, DCEU Batman blitzes

 

[Wdinatx]

The notes I have for her AP are this:
“6-C (Dr. Strange could only barely contend with her usubg tactics and/or the element of surprise, with his only recourse being to flee otherwise. Is far superior to herself controlling 838 Wanda due to inhabiting a weaker body, who defeated the Illuminati [more specifics?] and even when weakened was still far superior to Dr. Strange), likely Low 6-B (as one of the strongest beings in the verse she should be far more powerful than Ikaris), possibly far higher (Vision stated her full power is comparable to that of the Mind Stone. Potentially comparable a celestial like Ego as he ultimately proved to be comparatively small threat) Low 2-C, likely 2-A over time or possibly with Power Absorption (Repeatedly stated to be a threat to the multiverse, but only through causing incursions with Dreamwalking [which have been shown to just destroy one universe at a time] or if she hypothetically managed to absorb America’s power, which is portrayed as something that sufficiently powerful sorcerers like Dr. Strange can accomplish. Destroyed every Darkhold in the multiverse at the cost of her own life.)”

 

[Passes]

The notes I have for her AP are this:
“6-C (Dr. Strange could only barely contend with her usubg tactics and/or the element of surprise, with his only recourse being to flee otherwise. Is far superior to herself controlling 838 Wanda due to inhabiting a weaker body, who defeated the Illuminati [more specifics?] and even when weakened was still far superior to Dr. Strange), likely Low 6-B (as one of the strongest beings in the verse she should be far more powerful than Ikaris), possibly far higher (Vision stated her full power is comparable to that of the Mind Stone. Potentially comparable a celestial like Ego as he ultimately proved to be comparatively small threat) Low 2-C, likely 2-A over time or possibly with Power Absorption (Repeatedly stated to be a threat to the multiverse, but only through causing incursions with Dreamwalking [which have been shown to just destroy one universe at a time] or if she hypothetically managed to absorb America’s power, which is portrayed as something that sufficiently powerful sorcerers like Dr. Strange can accomplish. Destroyed every Darkhold in the multiverse at the cost of her own life.)”

I agree, I don’t know why the people who did her M.o.m key put her at Island level.
Doesn’t sound right.

Maybe it would be a good idea to tag some moderators so we can discuss.

 

[Dalesean027]

This is kinda late considering we already did the big Multiverse of Madness CRT so anything about this would be reflected on the current profile for Scarlet Witch

 

[Dalesean027]

Low 2-C, likely 2-A over time or possibly with Power Absorption (Repeatedly stated to be a threat to the multiverse, but only through causing incursions with Dreamwalking [which have been shown to just destroy one universe at a time] or if she hypothetically managed to absorb America’s power, which is portrayed as something that sufficiently powerful sorcerers like Dr. Strange can accomplish. Destroyed every Darkhold in the multiverse at the cost of her own life.)

Yeah nah this is absolutely a no go and the incursions that led to the strange's destruction of another universe is pretty vague and we don't know the details other than he caused it after dreamwalking and doing whatever the hell in another universe so it's not applicable to tiering and if it were it'd be via environmental destruction

6-C (Dr. Strange could only barely contend with her usubg tactics and/or the element of surprise, with his only recourse being to flee otherwise. Is far superior to herself controlling 838 Wanda due to inhabiting a weaker body, who defeated the Illuminati [more specifics?] and even when weakened was still far superior to Dr. Strange),

No need for that since she's already at least 6-C in 3 keys and upscales from thanos drastically more and more for each key

Vision stated her full power is comparable to that of the Mind Stone. Potentially comparable a celestial like Ego as he ultimately proved to be comparatively small threat

There's literally no grounds for this considering none of them even know who ego is or about the Celestials as far as we know

likely Low 6-B (as one of the strongest beings in the verse she should be far more powerful than Ikaris

Ikaris is also one of the strongest in the verse since he literally sets the standard for the eternals and stomps all of them having one of the best casual feats in the MCU for an individual whose not a god

 

[Dalesean027]

Not to be that guy but all the reasonings here are shaky at best if I already haven't made that clear, take this for example:

Attacking

• Wong said she could annihilated the cosmos.
• Doctor strange said she will enslave the entire multiverse if she got America's power.
• She can summon some creatures across multiverse and control them with witchcraft (Runes).
• She can project her consciousness to her body in another universe and possess it (Limited Dimensional travel ??).
• Reality warping

Not a single one of these is a "Attacking" feat as you've categorized it as to make her look more impressive and the statement wong makes is about a prophecy Wanda actively is not pursuing or taking interest in she literally says as much when Wong mentions the same things to her with her saying that she only cares about and wants her boys

Erasing Blackbolt's mouth (Biological Manipulation ?)

• Changing Mr. fantastic into some sort of pasta (lol I'm not sure what is this feat between RW or using Telekinesis tear him apart)
• Healing (When she escapes from mirror dimension. It looks like she's healing herself)
• Turning apple orchard to

She literally has all of this listed

• Blocking Doctor Strange's magic and erasing the Sling.
• She erases (or disintegrates) a sorcerer.
• She erases (or nullifies) Captain Marvel's power while protecting herself from photon blast.
• She kills Prof X in her mind and He is really died.
• She forces and uses America's power while holding her with one hand.
• She disintegrates Defender Strange's corpse and It makes 616 Doctor Strange's body which in another universe hurt.
• Danmaku (She's attacking sorcerer's shield with many hex blast at a time.)
• She said creating another hex was easy.
• she destroys the Darkhold in every universe

Has most of these too and she doesn't have danmaku as one is required to be able to shoot 20 blast simultaneously or in rapid almost instant secession to qualify for it

Defending

• Her body was fired by Magic cannon but she's got no any damage.
• Her forcefield is strong enough to protect her from photon blast.

This too is already reflected on her profile

She was also able to survive magic blasts from Agatha Harkness in WandaVision, before she became the Scarlet Witch.

Also in terms of this Agatha ap wise is featless so it doesn't come out to anything for her hurting Wanda here which is why her ap is listed as unknown

 

[Wdinatx]

Yeah nah this is absolutely a no go and the incursions that led to the strange's destruction of another universe is pretty vague and we don't know the details other than he caused it after dreamwalking and doing whatever the hell in another universe so it's not applicable to tiering and if it were it'd be via environmental destruction

Honestly I more or less agree with this because I forgot there was a term for Environmental Destruction besides “over time [reasoning]. This isn’t combat applicable.”

There's literally no grounds for this considering none of them even know who ego is or about the Celestials as far as we know

Ikaris is also one of the strongest in the verse since he literally sets the standard for the eternals and stomps all of them having one of the best casual feats in the MCU for an individual whose not a god

The Celestial thing was probably a bad idea in hindsight but I still feel like there’s justification for Ikarus scaling. Maybe not “far more powerful than” but I really doubt he’s so much stronger than everyone. Also he only was only against half of them, with Thena needing him to be serious and the people he was casual against were not “stomped”. That might not prove much but I find it silly to think that the combative Eternals are incomparably stronger than a legendary being that no sorcerer can hope to defeat.

No need for that since she's already at least 6-C in 3 keys and upscales from thanos drastically more and more for each key

“She literally has all of this listed.”
Also we wrote those before she had a key.

 

[Dalesean027]

“over time [reasoning]. This isn’t combat applicable.”

No because said incursions snd actual details of how long they tookk to destroy said universe we're not specified or weren't even given to use in the vaguest details

The Celestial thing was probably a bad idea in hindsight but I still feel like there’s justification for Ikarus scaling. Maybe not “far more powerful than” but I really doubt he’s so much stronger than everyone. Also he only was only against half of them, with Thena needing him to be serious and the people he was casual against were not “stomped”. That might not prove much but I find it silly to think that the combative Eternals are incomparably stronger than a legendary being that no sorcerer can hope to defeat.

I get what you're saying and it's fair from a non-wiki standpoint but I'm just letting you know this in a way befitting of how the wiki would treat this and without any actual comparison that at least mentions him by name or other eternals then there's just nothing that can be done there though you may be able to make a case if your reasoning can be made solid and sound

 

[Iloveyou1]

Did you agree for

"Scarlet Witch MOM should be atleast 6-c ,possibly 3-A via prophecy that she can annihilated the cosmos"

The Scarlet Witch is a myth ,no one believed that The Scarlet Witch is exist but it's actually wrong so the Darkhold was right The Scarlet Witch exist .Stated to be stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme and it was right, stated that she can rewriting reality and it was right or she can destroyed infinite Darkhold across multiverse so she possibly can destroyed planet like a stated that telling that she has destiny to destroyed the world. Every stated about her was always right, so why a stated that she can annihilated the cosmos need to be wrong? Her range powers was Multiverse so I think it might have a chance that she can do such things like a stated and I think we shouldn't ignore about prophecy of her.

 

[Dalesean027]

Did you agree for

"Scarlet Witch MOM should be atleast 6-c ,possibly 3-A via prophecy that she can annihilated the cosmos"

The Scarlet Witch is a myth ,no one believed that The Scarlet Witch is exist but it's actually wrong so the Darkhold was right The Scarlet Witch exist .Stated to be stronger than the Sorcerer Supreme and it was right, stated that she can rewriting reality and it was right or she can destroyed infinite Darkhold across multiverse so she possibly can destroyed planet like a stated that telling that she has destiny to destroyed the world. Every stated about her was always right, so why a stated that she can annihilated the cosmos need to be wrong? Her range powers was Multiverse so I think it might have a chance that she can do such things like a stated and I think we shouldn't ignore about prophecy of her.

Still no she shouldn't have any ratings indicative of universal anything as I said before even though Wong fears the prophecy Wanda literally states she doesn't remotely care about it and is actively not pursuing it instead just wanting her boys


There's plenty of prophecies of great destruction or what have you in stories that never get fulfilled or those involved never let them unfold due to them not activity not caring to pursue them which Wanda states, you can't give a rating for a prophecy that never comes to be

 

[Iloveyou1]

Still no she shouldn't have any ratings indicative of universal anything as I said before even though Wong fears the prophecy Wanda literally states she doesn't remotely care about it and is actively not pursuing it instead just wanting her boys


There's plenty of prophecies of great destruction or what have you in stories that never get fulfilled or those involved never let them unfold due to them not activity not caring to pursue them which Wanda states, you can't give a rating for a prophecy that never comes to She doesn't care and what? she still have a chance to annihilated the cosmos, like I said every stated about her was right . She can erased infinite DH across the Multiverse that means she might've a chance to annihilated the cosmos or destroyed the world. U cannot ignore the fact that every prophery about Scarlet witch was right. So I think she should gets " possibly 3-A or H3-A .

Correct me if I'm wrong. So you tryna say we can't give 3-A via prophecy to Scarlet witch because she doesn't really care and doesn't wanna do them, right? But Why we can't give this feat to her? She doesn't care but she still has a chance to annihilated the cosmos, like I said every stated about her was right . So that's why she might has a chance to annihilated the cosmos or destroyed the world.

 

[Dalesean027]

Correct me if I'm wrong. So you tryna say we can't give 3-A via prophecy to Scarlet witch because she doesn't really care and doesn't wanna do them, right? But Why we can't give this feat to her? She doesn't care but she still has a chance to annihilated the cosmos, like I said every stated about her was right . So that's why she might has a chance to annihilated the cosmos or destroyed the world.

She's not using the Darkhold to active grow stronger and destroy the cosmos nor is she using it for any other purpose aside from finding her children she literally isn't seeking and hasn't to do the big 3-A or low 2-C thing the prophecy is telling about

 

[Iloveyou1]

She's not using the Darkhold to active grow stronger and destroy the cosmos nor is she using it for any other purpose aside from finding her children she literally isn't seeking and hasn't to do the big 3-A or low 2-C thing the prophecy is telling about

then you mean her intention must be related to her power scaling too to make her be 3-A ??

 

[Dalesean027]

then you mean her intention must be related to her power scaling to be 3-A ??

Not that it must be it just is in this case because it directly involves an avoidable prophecy and powerboost from the darkhold that would require her to actively seek to fufill but she literally isn't and doesn't want to she has no interest in using the darkhold to become uber power and control the cosmos she her just doesn't need that or that much power and makes that clear

 

[Wdinatx]

Not that it must be it just is in this case because it directly involves an avoidable prophecy and powerboost from the darkhold that would require her to actively seek to fufill but she literally isn't and doesn't want to she has no interest in using the darkhold to become uber power and control the cosmos she her just doesn't need that or that much power and makes that clear

Correct me if I'm wrong but TD;DR: She has the potential to become a universal threat, maybe even beyond that, but she has no intention of reaching said potential and is too dead to change her mind.

 

[Dalesean027]

Correct me if I'm wrong but TD;DR: She has the potential to become a universal threat, maybe even beyond that, but she has no intention of reaching said potential and is too dead to change her mind.

Yes minus the dead part

 

[ParkerKent007]

@Dalesean027 @Iloveyou1 @Wdinatx

Very late to the game here but have we considered this, from Screen Rant? It would place Chavez at generating star-level energy, Wanda at star-level durability for taking those hits, and possibly Strange at star-level durability for taking Wanda's energy blasts. Corroborating evidence being Wanda also sucking all the Space Stone energy from alternate universe Captain Marvel in seconds:

https://screenrant.com/ms-marvel-episode-3-mcu-easter-eggs-references/

"Ms. Marvel episode 3 sees Bruno begin to research the possibility of interdimensional travel, and he name-drops Dr. Erik Selvig - a key supporting character in the Thor movies. This is more than just an Easter egg, because there's a sense in which Erik Selvig is the MCU's true multiverse expert; he was last seen in Thor: The Dark World, already using terms that are now becoming foundational to the MCU's approach to the multiverse. According to Bruno, Dr. Selvig suggested it is indeed possible to travel between the dimensions - but you would need the base energy of the sun. Amusingly, Ms. Marvel is releasing shortly after Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which introduced America Chavez - a character who can punch holes in spacetime, jumping between the dimensions. It seems Ms. Marvel episode 3 reveals just how powerful America Chavez really is."

Onscreen Evidence:

 

[Dalesean027]

@Dalesean027 @Iloveyou1 @Wdinatx

Very late to the game here but have we considered this, from Screen Rant? It would place Chavez at generating star-level energy, Wanda at star-level durability for taking those hits, and possibly Strange at star-level durability for taking Wanda's energy blasts. Corroborating evidence being Wanda also sucking all the Space Stone energy from alternate universe Captain Marvel in seconds:

https://screenrant.com/ms-marvel-episode-3-mcu-easter-eggs-references/

"Ms. Marvel episode 3 sees Bruno begin to research the possibility of interdimensional travel, and he name-drops Dr. Erik Selvig - a key supporting character in the Thor movies. This is more than just an Easter egg, because there's a sense in which Erik Selvig is the MCU's true multiverse expert; he was last seen in Thor: The Dark World, already using terms that are now becoming foundational to the MCU's approach to the multiverse. According to Bruno, Dr. Selvig suggested it is indeed possible to travel between the dimensions - but you would need the base energy of the sun. Amusingly, Ms. Marvel is releasing shortly after Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which introduced America Chavez - a character who can punch holes in spacetime, jumping between the dimensions. It seems Ms. Marvel episode 3 reveals just how powerful America Chavez really is."

Onscreen Evidence:

I'd say take this to the MCU general discussion thread

 

[Wdinatx]

@Dalesean027 @Iloveyou1 @Wdinatx

Very late to the game here but have we considered this, from Screen Rant? It would place Chavez at generating star-level energy, Wanda at star-level durability for taking those hits, and possibly Strange at star-level durability for taking Wanda's energy blasts. Corroborating evidence being Wanda also sucking all the Space Stone energy from alternate universe Captain Marvel in seconds:

https://screenrant.com/ms-marvel-episode-3-mcu-easter-eggs-references/

"Ms. Marvel episode 3 sees Bruno begin to research the possibility of interdimensional travel, and he name-drops Dr. Erik Selvig - a key supporting character in the Thor movies. This is more than just an Easter egg, because there's a sense in which Erik Selvig is the MCU's true multiverse expert; he was last seen in Thor: The Dark World, already using terms that are now becoming foundational to the MCU's approach to the multiverse. According to Bruno, Dr. Selvig suggested it is indeed possible to travel between the dimensions - but you would need the base energy of the sun. Amusingly, Ms. Marvel is releasing shortly after Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, which introduced America Chavez - a character who can punch holes in spacetime, jumping between the dimensions. It seems Ms. Marvel episode 3 reveals just how powerful America Chavez really is."

Onscreen Evidence:

That's her full potential, which she isn't anywhere close to reaching... or at least we don't have enough evidence for me to believe she's done so

 

[BunBun]

She's not using the Darkhold to active grow stronger and destroy the cosmos nor is she using it for any other purpose aside from finding her children she literally isn't seeking and hasn't to do the big 3-A or low 2-C thing the prophecy is telling about

That's the most ridiculous thing. No one said they needed more abilities but just wanted to say that she should get those ap.

 

[BunBun]

Yes minus the dead part

Dark Phoenix is said to be a threat to reality But that's not what Phoenix wants. but she still that ability Where's the justice?

 

[Wdinatx]

That's the most ridiculous thing. No one said they needed more abilities but just wanted to say that she should get those ap.

Dark Phoenix is said to be a threat to reality But that's not what Phoenix wants. but she still that ability Where's the justice?

You’re missing the point. She could have become that powerful if she studied her power but she didn’t ever reach that level. A functionally better analogy would be how Darth Vader never surpassed Palpatine. To be clear “functionally” means what happened while ignoring why.

Maria Ushiromiya and Harry Dresden are even better examples though, even having keys for a hypothetical power they never had.

 

[BunBun]

You’re missing the point. She could have become that powerful if she studied her power but she didn’t ever reach that level. A functionally better analogy would be how Darth Vader never surpassed Palpatine. To be clear “functionally” means what happened while ignoring why.

Maria Ushiromiya and Harry Dresden are even better examples though, even having keys for a hypothetical power they never had.

She destroyed infinite Darkhold across infinite realities ,which is infinite mass. This could make she become H3-A . She also stated to Wong at Wundagore mountain that she was born to be ruler of cosmos or the destroyer of cosmos ,but she didn't want to be that, she's just wanted her boys back .

 

[Dalesean027]

She destroyed infinite Darkhold across infinite realities ,which is infinite mass. This could make she become H3-A . She also stated to Wong at Wundagore mountain that she was born to be ruler of cosmos or the destroyer of cosmos ,but she didn't want to be that, she's just wanted her boys back .

No you've already heard opinions on.this but anyways staff has agreed to this

Post in thread 'Question about the Scarlet witch (MCU) tier' https://vsbattles.com/threads/question-about-the-scarlet-witch-mcu-tier.137668/post-5282775

 

[RoTt35]

She destroyed infinite Darkhold across infinite realities ,which is infinite mass. This could make she become H3-A

We list that as Existence Erasure/Deconstruction which is Hax, you can't get AP from it

 

[BunBun]

We list that as Existence Erasure/Deconstruction which is Hax, you can't get AP from it

But Marvel Official website/ The director etc.from Dr. Strange in the multiverse of madness confirmed that it was her raw power that destroyed infinite Darkhold . They said that Wanda " destroyed it " they didn't said " erased " ,idk why y'all give her existence erasure ability when it's cleary her raw power that destroyed all of it

U can read it on, " ON THE FUTURE WITHOUT EITHER MYTHICAL BOOK "

‘Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness’: Demystifying the Darkhold and Book of Vishanti

Understanding the mystic tomes at the center of the blockbuster.

www.marvel.com

 

[Iloveyou1]

Dalesean027 @Antvasima what do you think abt @BunBun opinion​

 

[Dalesean027]

Dalesean027 @Antvasima what do you think abt @BunBun opinion​

Regular users cannot ping anyone and this thread is lowkey kinda thread so I'd say if you really want input on this just say something in the MCU ohase 4 discussion thread with the link you sourced to get more opinions

 

[BunBun]

Dalesean027 @Antvasima what do you think abt @BunBun opinion​

@Antvasima I think my information is totally correct bc it has been approved by Marvel.