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Who could bypass Accelerator's shield?

XDragnoir said:
Question, you are surprised? Cause that seems quite basic when looking at everything Accel did IMO.
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I've never seen someone passively flying to the moon from accel tbh so idk.

Malox1696 said:
no it clearly says the vectors are pointed there, accelerator is still controlling them (even subconsciously)or the whole body weight would move them backwards too instead of just breaking their wrist
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The thing is wouldn't that be an active use of his power rather than passive? Cus it makes no sense to begin with if even though the entire body is moving, only the wrist gets reflected. Unless the passive field has some...weird priority or sth over what it considers as something touching it and what it reflects.

On a 2nd read of that quote "The force vector of all his body weight behind the knife had been reflected…and his slender wrist couldn’t endure the strength of the rest of his body"...what?
So the vector of his whole body was reflected, but he broke his wrist??? If his whole body's vector was reflected he'd just be sent flying and no pressure would be put at any part of the body let alone the wrist. It'd just be "he's coming for Accel" into "he's being sent flying from Accel".

cause the field works in the whole area not just the edge
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Never said it's just the edge though, what im talking about is the "range of influence outside of the edge, not inside. Inside it obviously works.
 
Passive he did not even realize what they were doing he was thinking about the whole lvl 6 experiment

the feat page explains all the property of the reflection and his power if u want to see (quote appears when u touch the bold parts)

well cause accel reflection being reality warping ignore 3rd Newton law, the rebounding force is ignored, he can in theory cleanly cut anything cause the rebounding force would just be resent there is no feedback (it stacks until object breaks obviously), anything is is like fluid with his power, he could cut the hardest metal simply by garbing it if he set it up cause there would be 2 opposite point of reflection constantly reflecting the rebounding force at each other
the novel even states that he only let the rebounding force of his strike hit him because he needs to figure out how much damage he dealt to the opponent

Never said it's just the edge though, what im talking about is the "range of influence outside of the edge, not inside. Inside it obviously works.
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outside it only works with active control but it works on the whole object even if only a part is inside it so let's say u have a stick of 100 m even if it's only 1mm inside it the whole object vector are affected
 
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well this https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ction_1.png/revision/latest?cb=20191123170426
latest
 
XDragnoir said:
Yeah, but it's still not outside what his powers can do so...
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Never said that, his vectors can definitely pull that off, but the issue is the passive field isn't supposed to do that from the description. It should only invert.

Malox1696 said:
well this https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net...ction_1.png/revision/latest?cb=20191123170426
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That dude wasn't moving forward with all his body. He just hit with the bat, you can break your wrist like that just by slamming into sth hard, let alone if it get's reflected. Also i don't see that guy flying, if the direction Accel forced was permanent until he choses otherwise, that guy would have been flung. Instead it just broke his wrist.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
Never said that, his vectors can definitely pull that off, but the issue is the passive field isn't supposed to do that from the description. It should only invert.
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What gave you this idea? I am pretty sure we said more than once that someone punching Accel will end with their fists broken or something like that, not sent flying to the moon or even flying at all, that's what happens with projectiles but that's it.
 
XDragnoir said:
What give you this idea, tho? I am pretty sure we said more than once that someone punching Accel will end with their fists broken or something like that, not sent flying to the moon or even flying at all,
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You're still missing what im saying "breaking the wrist" due to "vector inversion" can only be accomplished if it inverts the vector only of the wrist.

In the first example it says it inverted the vector of the entire body which means the wrist wouldn't have broken.
 
"The force vector of all his body weight behind the knife had been reflected…and his slender wrist couldn’t endure the strength of the rest of his body."

This one right? Accel gathered all the vectors of Random 1's body in a single place, his wrist couldn't withstand the pressure and broke.

If i got what you are saying right, you think Accel should only be able to break someone's wrist when only reflecting their punch, but wouldn't adding a lot of vectors from his whole body make this even easier? Why every thread with Accel needs to turn into a class of vectors?
 
XDragnoir said:
This one right? Accel gathered all the vectors of Random 1's body in a single place, his wrist couldn't withstand the pressure and broke.
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Yeah but that's not what his passive should do, it should only invert the vector (at least going by the description), not choose a place to point them all to.

XDragnoir said:
If i got what you are saying right, you think Accel should only be able to break someone's wrist when only reflecting their punch, but wouldn't adding a lot of vectors from his whole body make this even easier?
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Not if it's "inverting" the vectors of the whole body. It has to concentrate the vectors of his body, but again it would make sense if it was consciously done, but it was done by the passive which, for the 10th time "should only invert the vector".
 
Firephoenixearl said:
(at least going by the description)
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His profile says he is only inverting? His profile is wrong then, are we done here?

C'mon, even if we say it's "passive" Accel's subconscious is doing all the job actively, it analyses every single vector and then proceeds to reflect, if it thinks gathering is better than just sending away then it will do it.
 
XDragnoir said:
His profile says he is only inverting?
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Redirection/Reflection (反射 Hansha): Accelerator's passive application of his esper ability. He automatically inverts the direction of any incoming harmful vectors, even if he is unaware of their presence..(snip snip)... Because his passive reflection changes just the direction of the attacks, but not their magnitude, one can argue that his reflection is not dependent on the magnitude of the attacks.

The passive one specifically only inverts.

XDragnoir said:
C'mon, even if we say it's "passive" Accel's subconscious is doing all the job actively,
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How is he doing that if he is unaware of their presence?
 
Question: When it comes to power systems not from his verse can the character who uses that power system exploit the fact that he can’t calculate it without further understanding of what it’s doing
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
Question: When it comes to power systems not from his verse can the character who uses that power system exploit the fact that he can’t calculate it without further understanding of what it’s doing
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You will need a very specific system to do that, don't get me wrong, if you reality warp (be it via magic, science, whatever) the whole world it will affect Accel as far as we have proof.

But other than that? Toaru is full of different systems and Accel can interact with most of them.
 
XDragnoir said:
You will need a very specific system to do that, don't get me wrong, if you reality warp (be it via magic, science, whatever) the whole world it will affect Accel as far as we have proof.

But other than that? Toaru is full of different systems and Accel can interact with most of them.
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I see because I am gonna ask about Sirin whom can alter the laws of physics on a fundamental scale which could probably mess with Accelerator’s vector shield for a brief timeframe and has space time distortion and spacial manip powers that made a practically powernulling weapon register her attack as not existing until after the damage is dealt.

Also how would his shield interact with Pain transferral like Nobara Kugisaki can do by establishing a connection between Accelerator and a doll
Then just wacking the doll with a hammer and nail
 
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SemiRaedi said:
does the connection require some sort of signal? If so then reflected
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It’s never specified all we know is that the enemies heart and the doll are completely linked unless Kugisaki runs out of cursed energy or she releases the technique willingly
It hasn’t been portrayed that there is a signal to interrupt ever

Oh wait nvm her Pain transferral doesn’t work in most circumstances
I forgot she needs a part of the enemy underneath the doll she strikes
Like a hair or a limb so no she can’t do it most of the time.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
It’s never specified all we know is that the enemies heart and the doll are completely linked
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If i remember the quote perfectly, Accelerator himself said voodoo working on him or not was something he didn't know, but we have more than two (possibly more) examples of things being unable to spawn inside him, teleportation through 11th dimensional movement and dimensional slicing.

Other than that, i think she would be unable to create the link itself since it's still made with cursed energy which would probably be equal to mana, which Accel can deal with earlier and reflect normally after a certain point.
 
Jackof_noTrades068 said:
I see because I am gonna ask about Sirin whom can alter the laws of physics on a fundamental scale which could probably mess with Accelerator’s vector shield for a brief timeframe and has space time distortion and spacial manip powers that made a practically powernulling weapon register her attack as not existing until after the damage is dealt.

Also how would his shield interact with Pain transferral like Nobara Kugisaki can do by establishing a connection between Accelerator and a doll
Then just wacking the doll with a hammer and nail
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ok op is AGAIN specifically asking who can bypass the shield WITH THE KIHARA COUNETER not other methods there are many way already to do that
 
Firephoenixearl said:
How is he doing that if he is unaware of their presence?
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Basically the aim set up around him with a white list instead of black list, only force he registered in the white list pass, he can set the maximum speed temperature ,etc

anything that enters his aim field is immediately analyzed checked with the white list then vector goes x,y,z,=-x,-y-z, he does not need to be aware of it it's done by subconscious calculation once he set up the field with the properties he wants
 
Malox1696 said:
anything that enters his aim field is immediately analyzed checked with the white list then vector goes x,y,z,=-x,-y-z, he does not need to be aware of it it's done by subconscious calculation once he set up the field with the properties he wants
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Yeah, that's what i was saying, but XDrago said it was done consciously.

And if it is not done consciously, then how come all the vectors focused on the wrist if his whole body's vector was inverted. Going forwards as a vector when inverted wouldn't end up with all vectors pointing to the wrist.
 
Firephoenixearl said:
And if it is not done consciously, then how come all the vectors focused on the wrist if his whole body's vector was inverted. Going forwards as a vector when inverted wouldn't end up with all vectors pointing to the wrist.
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I think accelerator's shield works like saving settings in a game, he sets his shield to, "reflect all related vectors (the body's weight) into harmful vectors (the hand with the bat)". After adjusting his shield so that it does that without him having to do any conscious calculations he doesn't need to think about it anymore the same way you might change buttons in a game and have them saved like that so you don't have to manually change them all the time.

However, I'm not very knowledgeable on toaru so don't take my opinion, which is subjected to change as well as being corrected, as fact.
 
SemiRaedi said:
Circumstance 1. Given deep knowledge on Accelerator's reflection and an auto-biography of Accelerator
Circumstance 2. Given deep knowledge on Accelerator's reflection and brief knowledge on his personality
Circumstance 3. Given brief knowledge on Accelerator's reflection and brief knowledge on his personality
Circumstance 4. Only given brief knowledge on Accelerator's reflection
Circumstance 5. Survived getting/saw Accelerator reflecting something and has to work from there
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Ok onto the main point of this since this isn’t Sirin or Kugisaki vs Accelerator
I’ll speak for Garou since I’ve read One Punch Man at one point

C1:Should be a breeze for him
C2:Same as C1
C3: Depends on the quantity of brief but still mostly in his favor
C4:Might have some difficulty likely he adapts
C5:He likely adapts over the span of a minute or a couple minutes to counter the vector shield
 
I don't know much about Accelerator's shield, nor about most of the characters within... But I do know Yujiro, and here's my thoughts.

Before giving my opinion, I'll give some feats and things about Yujiro that may be useful to this dispute.
  • Yujiro can detect weaknesses up to the cellular level. Still not nearly enough to feel vectors, but ought to be useful to at least predict part of Accelerator's behaviour. I could see a savvier character using that to throw a couple of rocks while perfectly timing the attack to see the initial vector dispersion, and work from there, but I don't know if Yujiro would do that.
  • Yujiro is supremely skilled. Not only he outskills most characters in the Bakiverse (Every single one of them a beast that are impossibly skilled), he has feats such as the famous statement of "mastering all existing martial arts", can perfectly mimic, analyse and even perform better a move, style or even someone's natural way of fighting by just seeing it for a few moments, he can move in extremely precise time intervals and do several complex movements, he has absolutely superhuman control over his own body, and incredible analytical skills.
C1: Easy; Yujiro should be able to perfectly and minimally control his movements.
C2: Still easy. To be honest, Yujiro rarely considers someone's personality, he outright reads their intentions from the get-go.
C3: A bit tricky, but should be doable. If Yujiro understands how the ability work, it should still be easy, but if he misunderstands it... I doubt he'd manage to do anything at all.
C4: Same as C3.
C5: I don't think he could do it. Accelerator's reflection is way too different from anything in Bakiverse. He could relate that to Aiki, which does redirect anything's flow of energy to somewhere else, and he should be able to predict that it is a reflecting technique. But not knowing how it actually works, Yujiro would be stumped if he tried to do what he knows that can counter Aiki. I could see Yujiro make some interesting attempts, such as attempting Shaori, feinting or even tricking Accelerator for a few instants, but since the entire movement needs to suffer minimal alterations all the while, it still wouldn't be enough.
 
I would say Hulk because he is powers are very unpredictable. Given that He is not that smart, I won't use any circumstances. But am very sure he can bypass Accelerator's Shield.
 
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