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Even Mei has better striking strength than Raikage.
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Why are Onoki and A (Fourth Raikage), not on the same tier as Tsunade, Mei, and Gaara?
- Thread starter Avieliyahu
- Start date
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Feats > Hype
Base Ay has literally 0 feats as such he is assumed at general kage level.
Lightning armor has feats but none that put him on 7-A (Could change depending on a different thread)
Onoki enhanced is 7-A for fighting 5 Susanoo.
Base Ay has literally 0 feats as such he is assumed at general kage level.
Lightning armor has feats but none that put him on 7-A (Could change depending on a different thread)
Onoki enhanced is 7-A for fighting 5 Susanoo.
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Yes by feats.
Until he is enhanced by Onoki that is.
Until he is enhanced by Onoki that is.
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- Thread starter
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But why do you assume he was still enhanced by Onoki?ShrekAlmighty said:
Onoki can "enhance" him, only when he touches him like here and here (Also Kabuto states that he makes A lighter , and iirc, he never showed the ability to make some lighter when he doesn't touch him).
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Cause Gaaras sand was still enhanced eventho Onoki wasnt touching it.
Cause Akatsuchi was still able to fly eventho Onoki wasnt touching him, same goes for Kurotsuchi.
Cause Madaras susanoo were unable to move when he weighted them down even tho he wasnt touching them or the ground.
Simply its shown that the enhancement is kept until Onoki releases it and in a combat situation like this a combat smart person like Onoki has no reason to unenhance him.
Cause Akatsuchi was still able to fly eventho Onoki wasnt touching him, same goes for Kurotsuchi.
Cause Madaras susanoo were unable to move when he weighted them down even tho he wasnt touching them or the ground.
Simply its shown that the enhancement is kept until Onoki releases it and in a combat situation like this a combat smart person like Onoki has no reason to unenhance him.
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Fair enough. Even though I still think that A should be comparable to the other kagesShrekAlmighty said:
kinda weird that he is 2 tiers below lol.
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Well that is a fair opinion, oh and also there is a different thread where Lightning armor Ay being 7-A is indirectly being discussed so who knows maybe he will be 7-A.
Also thank you for being very reasonable and debating with me in a civil manner i greatly appreciate it.
Also thank you for being very reasonable and debating with me in a civil manner i greatly appreciate it.
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A is physically weaker than Mei, why?
What feats— not scaling— actual feats, demonstrates she has higher strength than A? Don't say that she has higher strength by scaling to her Jutsu because of Chakra Control. Everyone knows that boosting your strength like that takes Sakura and Tsunade levels of control and training, and could only be attributed to Naruto, Lee, Gai, and maybe Sasuke. To say that she could make her punches be as strong as her Jutsu by chakra control when she hasn't done anything to suggest that is BS.
What feats— not scaling— actual feats, demonstrates she has higher strength than A? Don't say that she has higher strength by scaling to her Jutsu because of Chakra Control. Everyone knows that boosting your strength like that takes Sakura and Tsunade levels of control and training, and could only be attributed to Naruto, Lee, Gai, and maybe Sasuke. To say that she could make her punches be as strong as her Jutsu by chakra control when she hasn't done anything to suggest that is BS.
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Cause she fought 5 Susanoo and was clearly physically damaged with us even seeing her being hit by one of the complete Susanoos, as she took attacks from Complete susanoos she has physical feats of that level.
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She didnt?
It does if a character has both Ap and Durability feats on a certian level, not doing this would render half the characters with unknown Striking strenght.
It does if a character has both Ap and Durability feats on a certian level, not doing this would render half the characters with unknown Striking strenght.
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should be physically stronger than her
For what reason not including hype?
Scaling striking strenght to durability and Ap is completely fine if the character has feats for them on a consistent level.
For what reason not including hype?
Scaling striking strenght to durability and Ap is completely fine if the character has feats for them on a consistent level.
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That's illogical. You can scale her to be baseline whatever her character rank in the verse should be.
Us not knowing her striking strength doesn't make using the AP from her special projectile energy superpower attacks equal to her striking. There's also people who have high durability but no striking. Unless there's some sort of physics reason or community guideline that is used for that, that is 1000% BS.
Us not knowing her striking strength doesn't make using the AP from her special projectile energy superpower attacks equal to her striking. There's also people who have high durability but no striking. Unless there's some sort of physics reason or community guideline that is used for that, that is 1000% BS.
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Its not illogical its absolutely logical if a character has consistent feats of both(keyword both) Durabilty and Ap on a certain level to scale it to their Striking strenght, its like saying Guys ap doesnt scale to his striking strenght and durability just cause he hasnt shown it.
As i said everyone is scaled this way(Unless they have been stated to be weaker physically or what not) not doing so would render half the character with unknown striking strenght.
As i said everyone is scaled this way(Unless they have been stated to be weaker physically or what not) not doing so would render half the character with unknown striking strenght.
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Show me a blog post or community guideline that says what you said is acceptable.
You do realize hype and statements aren't meaningless right? Going just by feats and ignoring context and "hype", Krillin Scales to Universal Goku. Do you know how stupid that is?
Statements and hype aren't meaningless. They're the story's context. They establish what the verse itself (not the author, but the reality we are trying to understand) considers true. You only go against that when the story conflicts with itself immensely. Your argument for Mei being physically superior to someone who has a lot of "hype" is absolute garbage and extremely weak, because a strong indicator is needed for such a claim, and all you have is scaling by technicality and no direct evidence of your claim.
If you don't understand how arguments can have "potency" behind them that changes how affective they are, then how about this example.
I tell you that I saw a unicorn. And my evidence is a horn from something. You can't tell if it was a unicorn horn or not just from that, even if it is a horn.
You do realize hype and statements aren't meaningless right? Going just by feats and ignoring context and "hype", Krillin Scales to Universal Goku. Do you know how stupid that is?
Statements and hype aren't meaningless. They're the story's context. They establish what the verse itself (not the author, but the reality we are trying to understand) considers true. You only go against that when the story conflicts with itself immensely. Your argument for Mei being physically superior to someone who has a lot of "hype" is absolute garbage and extremely weak, because a strong indicator is needed for such a claim, and all you have is scaling by technicality and no direct evidence of your claim.
If you don't understand how arguments can have "potency" behind them that changes how affective they are, then how about this example.
I tell you that I saw a unicorn. And my evidence is a horn from something. You can't tell if it was a unicorn horn or not just from that, even if it is a horn.
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Scroll through some random profiles or profiles from Naruto if you want to and you will notice a considerate ammount of profiles lack a reasoning for striking strenght
Yea but he doesnt have statements, hype is completely irrelevant.
If a character has shit feats and no statements he doesnt magically become stronger than others, you have no direct evidence on Ay being physically superior you are basing your opinion on opinion alone which is wrong as feats put him significantly below Mei and a number of other kages (Not including enhanced).
Honestly dont see where your horn unicorn analogy fits in here.
Yea but he doesnt have statements, hype is completely irrelevant.
If a character has shit feats and no statements he doesnt magically become stronger than others, you have no direct evidence on Ay being physically superior you are basing your opinion on opinion alone which is wrong as feats put him significantly below Mei and a number of other kages (Not including enhanced).
Honestly dont see where your horn unicorn analogy fits in here.
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Context is key.
If the AP comes from energy attacks, projectile based super powers, AKA anything that isn't physically strength based, then that scaling doesn't translate. I can fire a huge energy blast that can destroy a planet, and can take an attack on my body similar. But, while in fiction, it's a fair assumption because on the meta level because we normally see characters in fiction have stats that are comparable. But note, that's meta thinking— not looking at anything in verse or even proper procedure or physics— it's guessing based on tropes and patterns about fiction itself, not real information based in the verse.
Durability is just how tough your body is. Not how hard you can punch. There's plenty of examples of that being true in fiction. Especially cartoon characters.
It wouldn't make half the verse unknown, it would make them no stronger than the baseline version of their rank. Meaning, Caster Genin who fire blasts all the time should be at least equal to the average genin, or the weakest genin.
If the AP comes from energy attacks, projectile based super powers, AKA anything that isn't physically strength based, then that scaling doesn't translate. I can fire a huge energy blast that can destroy a planet, and can take an attack on my body similar. But, while in fiction, it's a fair assumption because on the meta level because we normally see characters in fiction have stats that are comparable. But note, that's meta thinking— not looking at anything in verse or even proper procedure or physics— it's guessing based on tropes and patterns about fiction itself, not real information based in the verse.
Durability is just how tough your body is. Not how hard you can punch. There's plenty of examples of that being true in fiction. Especially cartoon characters.
It wouldn't make half the verse unknown, it would make them no stronger than the baseline version of their rank. Meaning, Caster Genin who fire blasts all the time should be at least equal to the average genin, or the weakest genin.
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Indeed.
Guessing based on tropes eventho character has shown Ap of a certain level and physical durability of that level?
If you have feats of durability and Ap your striking strenght scales to them, having durability alone be higher than everything else wouldnt make the characters Ap and striking strenght scale.
Thats a case by case scenario and as i worded it wrongly by only using unknown i apologize, however assuming a character is vastly weaker than all of their other stats that they have consistently shown is wrong and something we dont do here(not including special cases).
Guessing based on tropes eventho character has shown Ap of a certain level and physical durability of that level?
If you have feats of durability and Ap your striking strenght scales to them, having durability alone be higher than everything else wouldnt make the characters Ap and striking strenght scale.
Thats a case by case scenario and as i worded it wrongly by only using unknown i apologize, however assuming a character is vastly weaker than all of their other stats that they have consistently shown is wrong and something we dont do here(not including special cases).
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Show me Mei punching something harder than A. Or, prove that Tsunade and Ay arm wrestling wasn't a statement in the manga. Do one of those two things, because neither of your arguments are strong.
You're trying to get me to accept that Mei can do something she has never shown to do better than someone who has statements who can. Unless you can prove that Ay and Tsunade didn't arm wrestle in a statement in the manga, or that no one noted the Raikage as physically strong, or show Mei actually punching something, you don't have a strong argument.
Arguments that are strong are less likely to be false since they are presented in a way that fills any holes in the claims. It's why many big revision threads don't just give one example of something.
You're trying to get me to accept that Mei can do something she has never shown to do better than someone who has statements who can. Unless you can prove that Ay and Tsunade didn't arm wrestle in a statement in the manga, or that no one noted the Raikage as physically strong, or show Mei actually punching something, you don't have a strong argument.
Arguments that are strong are less likely to be false since they are presented in a way that fills any holes in the claims. It's why many big revision threads don't just give one example of something.
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Tsunade and Ay arm wrestling was anime only IE not canon.
Mei kicked Black Zetsu who could restrain Obito as such he is superior to Ay(Not including enhanced)
What statements, they didnt arm wrestle i remember it being an anime only filler episode if you could provide the manga statement/feat i would be very thankful, Mei kicked Black Zetsu.
I have no idea what you are trying to imply with this, considering Ay has no feats or statements of being superior to her in any way (Not including enhanced) while Mei has feats of being superior to him.
Mei kicked Black Zetsu who could restrain Obito as such he is superior to Ay(Not including enhanced)
What statements, they didnt arm wrestle i remember it being an anime only filler episode if you could provide the manga statement/feat i would be very thankful, Mei kicked Black Zetsu.
I have no idea what you are trying to imply with this, considering Ay has no feats or statements of being superior to her in any way (Not including enhanced) while Mei has feats of being superior to him.
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You don't scale any characters to their durability. Point Black period. It's worse than assuming one stat is less than the others, particularly because you don't want to inflate a character's capabilities beyond what they have demonstrated. That's why we assess characters fairly, but conservatively.
Characters who's AP come from projectile attacks have no inherent reason to be able to scale to their attacks physically, especially when they use them primarily and have no showings of attacks that scale, nor reasoning for why they would have those attacks, be it trends in verse (like Zeno in DB), or actual verse mechanics (like Chakra Control in Naruto. In this case, Mei has no reason to be on some Sakura shit).
Characters who's AP come from projectile attacks have no inherent reason to be able to scale to their attacks physically, especially when they use them primarily and have no showings of attacks that scale, nor reasoning for why they would have those attacks, be it trends in verse (like Zeno in DB), or actual verse mechanics (like Chakra Control in Naruto. In this case, Mei has no reason to be on some Sakura shit).
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Mei kicked black Zetsu?! Ok. Show me the scan, and explain if the kick did anything, then i'll Accept. I was under the impression that the arm wrestle thing was in the manga. My bad.
But, if what you say is true, then this makes little sense. Also, wait, wasn't Naruto saying that Ay could have killed him or something? And Naruto scales to Obito in his KCM1 form?
But, if what you say is true, then this makes little sense. Also, wait, wasn't Naruto saying that Ay could have killed him or something? And Naruto scales to Obito in his KCM1 form?
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Raikage pushed back KCM Naruto with a punch. Naruto also said that his punch was "heavy."
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I think raikage should be 7-A all around like the other kage.
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Mei sent Zetsu flying with a kick.
Naruto stated his punch was heavy but this was deemed an outlier as he was overpowered by Base B.
Anyways Lightning armor Ay will likely become 7-A for some smashing Sasukes susanoo or something like that im not sure myself.
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Base will never be 7-AWrath Of Itachi said:
Lightning armor will likely soon be 7-A
And no need to talk about enhanced.
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KCM Naruto is about to be high 6C in durability and 6C in AP. His statement was plot lol or pis
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Well yea soon he will be upgraded to 7-A or smthin for smashing Sasukes susanooAmexim said:
He wont scale to Nardo tho as he will be High 6-C or something like that soon.
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lmao, I am glad this is coming rouind peacefully, I did not want to be part of a possible shitstorm.avoiding 7-A Sasuke thread
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Ehhh the 7-A thread was a shitstorm but its calm now, somehow Naruto discussions these days dont turn into complete messes of high degree
@Amexim
Also i apologize if i appeared rude while debating you that was not my intention.
@Amexim
Also i apologize if i appeared rude while debating you that was not my intention.
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Why not upscale B, or call B being superior pis instead of being down the Kage? The Kage, who should already be stronger than B due to status and context. Bringing the guy who shouldn't be being beaten makes no sense, especially since we have nothing to corroborate him being weaker physically beyond B doing what B did.
B should be the outlier, not Naruto's statement, if anything.
B should be the outlier, not Naruto's statement, if anything.
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@Amexim
Ay not being compared to KCM Nardo was debated extensively and decided to be declined cause of multiple reasons including Base B, Base Minato and couple of other characters being superior/comparable to KCM Nardo as it sounds really bad.
Ay not being compared to KCM Nardo was debated extensively and decided to be declined cause of multiple reasons including Base B, Base Minato and couple of other characters being superior/comparable to KCM Nardo as it sounds really bad.
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Base minato is 7-A for being a rival to Ay. Its stated in minatos profile.
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And being comparable to orochi.Wrath Of Itachi said:
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