Why is Mai's Bullet Rubber?

[Rosa]

Maki's profile is currently rated at subsonic for cutting what is labelled as a "rubber bullet", with it the calc linked using the speed of a rubber bullet for its speed comparison. I don't think we can make the assumption, though. If your only counter is "oh but mach 3 statement, Naoya's speed of sound statement" to argue for consistency, then I'm already aware, I'm just asking if there's any contextual or narrative arguments for this being a consistent interpretation of the text outside of an argument rooted in it being an outlier.

Firstly, we know that Mai regularly uses real bullets given Momo assumed a real bullet was used on Nobara, implying that's Mai's standard pick and thus rubber bullets are abnormal, with Mai even reloading her gun when Maki shows up (despite only firing one road, implying she was reloading to change out the rubber bullets for a different kind), alongside the fact that whenever she uses her guns later in the series it's references that she's using "conventional weaponry". This is contextually most consistent as Mai was ordered to kill Yuji Itadori, with both Mai and Noritoshi both stating that the responsibility cannot be left solely to Todo and thus they must all attack Yuji with the intent to kill. We also know that Mai explicitly wanted to fight Maki alone and defeat Maki with her own strength to show her why hard work is useless, to prove to her that she needs to just go back to being a servant, which is why when Maki beats her Mai struggles to accept that Maki can simply just be that strong. This sequence of events wouldn't make any sense if Mai was holding back to such a ridiculous extent as to not even use any of her rounds of real bullets, and thus her feats of slicing and dodging the bullets from her revolver should be in the context of real bullets.

Moreover, the bullet Mai created and which Maki caught is explicitly a real bullet. We know this because rubber bullets aren't potent enough to even leave a mark or breach the skin of an off-guard Nobara and yet was able to leave a considerable injury to Maki's hand, which Maki even comments on in the same panel. This wouldn't make any sense given Nobara trained with Maki and considers her an absolute powerhouse who can carry the entire team.

 

[Arkenis]

Seems fine. I think this just got overlooked since we've been focused on pna, Gojo, and Sukuna for the most part. This feat should just be removed on page. Her just scaling to Megumi is fine since there's also a calc for him reacting Kamo's arrow

 

[MusicRelaxing]

W QnA

 

[SunDaGamer]

Mai was using rubber bullets because one of the rules of the Goodwill Event is no killing so it makes sense for her to use a less lethal option than she'd usually use any other time. It's not as if the power of her bullets should be limited to the real life equivalents when she reinforces them with Cursed Energy anyways.

 

[Rosa]

Mai was using rubber bullets because one of the rules of the Goodwill Event is no killing so it makes sense for her to use a less lethal option than she'd usually use any other time. It's not as if the power of her bullets should be limited to the real life equivalents when she reinforces them with Cursed Energy anyways.

Maki's durability is currently ranked as Multi-City Block Level, so I don't think a regular bullet would be fatal for her, and we know sorcerers in the Kyoto Event don't hesitate to use attacks that have accepted calcs that high. Why would we assume a regular bullet is implausible due to being fatal given the context of the series? I agree Mai can likely make her bullets fatal via amplifying them with cursed energy, however there's nothing preventing her from simply regulating how strong she makes them whilst preserving the massive speed advantage of a regular bullet.

 

[Rosa]

W QnA

idk if this is sarcasm or not, but I intended to make this a CRT but I was told by other members (GuacamoleFletcher) that the mods said that's not allowed and so if I just want to see the justifications for the argument a QnA thread would be best.

 

[Arkenis]

Maki's durability is currently ranked as Multi-City Block Level, so I don't think a regular bullet would be fatal for her, and we know sorcerers in the Kyoto Event don't hesitate to use attacks that have accepted calcs that high. Why would we assume a regular bullet is implausible due to being fatal given the context of the series? I agree Mai can likely make her bullets fatal via amplifying them with cursed energy, however there's nothing preventing her from simply regulating how strong she makes them whilst preserving the massive speed advantage of a regular bullet.

She won't be mcb in the future. A lot of ap for the characters pre culling games is gonna be very low like 8-B or lower so don't look to the pages for scaling for now. Also guns are usable on Sorcerers, specifically conventional weapons not cursed energy imbued ones.

 

[Rosa]

She won't be mcb in the future. A lot of ap for the characters pre culling games is gonna be very low like 8-B or lower so don't look to the pages for scaling for now. Also guns are usable on Sorcerers, specifically conventional weapons not cursed energy imbued ones.

Why would their durability be downgraded below multi-city block level when he have numerous supporting evidence for it?

 

[Arkenis]

Why would their durability be downgraded below multi-city block level when he have numerous supporting evidence for it?

The calcs were done wrong/used inaccurate methods. Most of the ones we've been using for scaling have been recalced to 8-B or lower. Early scaling like the Goodwill won't be mcb I believe, especially Maki and Mai. Can check here for the calcs that were recaled.

 

[Rosa]

The calcs were done wrong/used inaccurate methods. Most of the ones we've been using for scaling have been recalced to 8-B or lower. Early scaling like the Goodwill won't be mcb I believe, especially Maki and Mai. Can check here for the calcs that were recaled.

8-B is still above bullet level tho, so I think it should be fine.

 

[JnSteHar002]

Mai was using rubber bullets because one of the rules of the Goodwill Event is no killing so it makes sense for her to use a less lethal option than she'd usually use any other time. It's not as if the power of her bullets should be limited to the real life equivalents when she reinforces them with Cursed Energy anyways.

Well, Mai and the other Kyoto students were given explicit orders to kill Yuji by any means necessary, so Mai would have at least a few regular bullets

 

[Nierre]

bumping for interest

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

bumping for interest

No point, the point of the thread is wank

Well, Mai and the other Kyoto students were given explicit orders to kill Yuji by any means necessary, so Mai would have at least a few regular bullets

Not necessarily

8-B is still above bullet level tho, so I think it should be fine.

Mixing a real bullet with her cursed energy would be an unfair advantage, and we don't know the difference in her lethality between imbuing cursed energy into a real bullet vs a rubber bullet, so the entire topic can get discarded. Without explicit confirmation that she used a real bullet, this can't be assumed and is contradictory to the lore and scaling.

The only other possible purpose would be claiming Maki is hypersonic or something like that pre-awakening, which is just absurd

 

[Nierre]

that was a whole month ago

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

that was a whole month ago

still, motivated reasoning is always a danger to VSBW, such as Rosa's

 

[Rosa]

No point, the point of the thread is wank

How? No where have I argued for any speed ranking above what's already accepted.

Mixing a real bullet with her cursed energy would be an unfair advantage

How is it an unfair advantage if it's allowed within the rules to use any and all weapons? We have people in the arc literally using city block level cyborg arm canons and special grade cursed tools, but a revolver is "unfair"?

we don't know the difference in her lethality between imbuing cursed energy into a real bullet vs a rubber bullet, so the entire topic can get discarded.

We don't need to know the difference in lethality, why is that a relevant point?

Without explicit confirmation that she used a real bullet, this can't be assumed and is contradictory to the lore and scaling.

My entire post is asking for in-lore reasons as to why it's contradictory outside of just powerscaling arguments of "well faster characters have mach 3 scaling and according to my pixel calculations if it WAS a real bullet Maki would be above mach 3, which is contradictory!" Saying "oh but the scaling!" doesn't answer my question at all, you're being so incredibly defensive for no reason. We all agree that this shouldn't upscale Maki, this isn't a CRT thread, your JJK sub-mach 3 scaling is perfectly safe, so let's just have interesting discussions about the narrative without needing to pivot.

The only other possible purpose would be claiming Maki is hypersonic or something like that pre-awakening, which is just absurd

Not true.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Go/Jo solo Mai bullet.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

How is it an unfair advantage if it's allowed within the rules to use any and all weapons?

Idk, ask the Jujutsu Technical college people who made that rule, but it would be unfair because it would give her attack speeds of 411 m/s, which exceed the peak speed of the second fastest sorcerer in an Elite Sorcerer clan, capable of blitzing several grade 1 sorcerers. All the while, Mai herself is likely just superhuman to low subsonic, which in and of itself might have a low basis for it

We don't need to know the difference in lethality, why is that a relevant point?

Because it is considered that way in universe, and we don’t need to create a different explanation when we already understand that

 

[Rosa]

Idk, ask the Jujutsu Technical college people who made that rule

"We can assume this thing was banned by the people in the show"
"why?"
"idk, ask the people in the show!"

...

it would give her attack speeds of 411 m/s, which exceed the peak speed of the second fastest sorcerer in an Elite Sorcerer clan, capable of blitzing several grade 1 sorcerers. All the while, Mai herself is likely just superhuman to low subsonic, which in and of itself might have a low basis for it

The entire point of it is to win; last year they let Yuta Okkotsu, a person who'd no diff that same elite sorcerer in all areas, compete. Furthermore, having a superhuman speed character who has access to a single supersonic attack, which itself has limitations, isn't going to be that crushing as things like aim dodging exist (which we know is easy for sorcerers who can predict their opponents movements in battle), disarming her, etc., most students would be able to find a way around her gun.

Because it is considered that way in universe, and we don’t need to create a different explanation when we already understand that

When? When is it ever noted that it's the case that Mai wasn't allowed to use a real gun because it'll be too lethal?

 

[Arkenis]

most students would be able to find a way around her gun.

Not most. Todo, Yuji and Maki can, I can see Megumi maybe.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Not most. Todo, Yuji and Maki can, I can see Megumi maybe.

Pre-Awakened Maki ain't a bullet timer yet, she's getting tagged by all her bullets basically

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

When? When is it ever noted that it's the case that Mai wasn't allowed to use a real gun because it'll be too lethal?

It's the clear implication of making someone use a notoriously and known weaker and slower version of regular bullets for an event where you can't kill an opponent normally

 

[Hypertornado099]

It's the clear implication of making someone use a notoriously and known weaker and slower version of regular bullets for an event where you can't kill an opponent normally

What if normal bullets in JJK are slow?

 

[PowerToScale]

The first six bullets can be viewed as rubber bullets, the surprise bullet is a real bullet tho.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

The first six bullets can be viewed as rubber bullets, the surprise bullet is a real bullet tho.

prove that.

Pre-Awakened Maki gets blitzed by mach 1, she ain't reacting to a supersonic attack

 

[Jason_Courne]

She won't be mcb in the future. A lot of ap for the characters pre culling games is gonna be very low like 8-B or lower so don't look to the pages for scaling for now. Also guns are usable on Sorcerers, specifically conventional weapons not cursed energy imbued ones.

I mean even Small Building level durability would be bulletproof to 44 magnum (MCB is only required for specifically the most powerful fictional caliber possible)

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

I mean even Small Building level durability would be bulletproof to 44 magnum (MCB is only required for specifically the most powerful fictional caliber possible)

yeah but we don't know the relationship between the type of bullet and her AP, and it's overall just strongly implied it's gonna be way weaker

the possibilities are:

• She can't imbue as much CE into a rubber bullet
• a rubber bullet imbued with the same CE is less lethal than a real bullet imbued with CE because of either speed or the hardness relating to the same amount of CE
• It would render her unable to catch someone offguard without killing them

The last one is very likely, because she hit Nobara with the rubber bullet when she was offguard to take her out, but she couldn't have done the same otherwise because a real bullet would've one shot her

Also Nobara at that time is grade 3-2 level, meaning she's not super far off from a shotgun's AP, so basically a shotgun to her offguard is taking her out, and we can say the same about a real bullet

 

[Hypertornado099]

I mean even Small Building level durability would be bulletproof to 44 magnum (MCB is only required for specifically the most powerful fictional caliber possible)

You can have lower durability against sharp objects

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Bruh rosa literally got all his takes debunked by the recent chapter

Spoiler: Lol

Current Gojo = JJK0 Gojo, and Miguel punches harder than Gojo without a cursed technique

Also Gojo isn’t like “oh he was stronger back then,” no, adult Gojo is adult Gojo he still punches weaker than Miguel, no blue

 

[Rosa]

Bruh rosa literally got all his takes debunked by the recent chapter

Spoiler: Lol

Current Gojo = JJK0 Gojo, and Miguel punches harder than Gojo without a cursed technique

Also Gojo isn’t like “oh he was stronger back then,” no, adult Gojo is adult Gojo he still punches weaker than Miguel, no blue

how is this at all relevant to my thread or even my takes? I've always maintained on my tier list that Miguel has relativity to vol0 Gojo, it was you who argued against that by saying shit like "why wasn't he made a special grade then???"

 

[Stolp]

@Guacamolefletcher I recommend that you provide detailed explanations and substantiate your claims rather than making baseless assertions. This practice not only disrupts the flow of the discussion but also diminishes the credibility of your positions.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

@Guacamolefletcher I recommend that you provide detailed explanations and substantiate your claims rather than making baseless assertions. This practice not only disrupts the flow of the discussion but also diminishes the credibility of your positions.

This you?
Lifting strength: Unkown | Immeasurable (Should be somewhat relative to its striking strength.) | Immeasurable (Should be somewhat relative to its striking strength.)
(for Mahoraga's lifting strength)

 

[Stolp]

It appears satisfactory thus far; however, you have yet to provide a compelling counterargument. You are persisting in the behavior I have previously addressed, wherein you merely assert unsubstantiated points without offering cogent arguments. This approach not only undermines the strength of your position but also fails to contribute meaningfully to the discussion.

 

[Arkenis]

"why wasn't he made a special grade then???"

JJK readers just love throwing special grade around when a guys strong lmao.

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

JJK readers just love throwing special grade around when a guys strong lmao.

Nah this is out of context

 

[Rosa]

Nah this is out of context

stop derailing my threads with petty disagreements we've had over discord several months ago...

 

[Nierre]

I had a feeling there was prior disagreements/engagements between yall before this because the way yall were acting had me feeling u guys must know each other to be taking shots at each other like this randomly lmao

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

Aside from any derailing, the point about "Mai reloads, so it implies she loads in real bullets" is just a non-sequitur. Mai reloads to have the 6 bullets in there so Maki counts the 6 shots, and then gets caught offguard by the 7th. There's no evidence it's Mai reloading with more lethal bullets.

 

[Duedate8898]

What's going on here exactly?

 

[Guacamolefletcher]

What's going on here exactly?

Nothing much, just discussing if Mai used a real bullet vs Maki, and I'm arguing it's not. I guess I got a little excited for the recent chapter and referenced a discussion I had with the person beforehand